Browning 30-06

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Dirt rd. Dave

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I bought a Browning Belgium Safari with the mouser action a few years back. trying to figure out what's the best store bought ammo to use. I hope to re-load some day but just not there yet. A friend said I need to figure out the twist or something I don't know? should I even be trying to figure out what my 06 likes the best?
 
To me your question tells me you have a lot to learn. Do some home work on ammo choices. You might just enjoy "learning" something on your own.

With folks telling you what possible choices you have, you still have to make your own selections. Considering what game your might hunt.

learning on your own..................sticks with you.

Not trying to be nasty. There is more to hunting than what type ammo you should use.
 
Well, there are more available loading for 30-06 out there than most common calibers. What's the plan? Meaning ammunition for what purpose? Want to just shoot the rifle and punch holes in a target? Looking for hunting loads and for hunting what? The twist rate, which you can derive, is likely a 1:10 which will allow for a wide range of 30 caliber bullet weights. I would start by defining what you want to do as in target shooting or hunting for starters.

Ron
 
According to my Sierra #5, 2nd Edition, the twist rate in all Browning rifles chambered in .30-06 is 1:10, except for the Browning Model 78 which is 1:12.

Probably the most common bullet weight in the .30-06 is 150 grain. All four of my .30-06's shoot it well, one of which is a Browning 1885.

In order to find what your rifle likes and shoots best, you are going to need to spend time at the range, probably several trips, and shoot a variety of brands. Being a newbie to the .30-06, you might find your recoil tolerance not what you would like it to be. I recommend you shoot your gun a lot to get to know it, its limits and your limits, too. Besides, practice is fun, too! Most good shooters shoot frequently and regularly. When you practice, always concentrate on the fundamentals. You might be surprised how quickly tour performance improves.
 
I went to the range 4x's with Remington, Winchester, and Nosler ammo since I bought the riffle. I only want to hunt deer with it. We have some big blacktail and mule deer and mule-blacktail mix out this way.
I spent my childhood hunting into my teens but haven't killed a buck since. Now my boy has 3 bucks and he's 15 yrs old. He's on me to kill one. I bring the Nosler ammo with me. What I really want is to be able to drop a buck at 500 yards if I have a clean shot. I saw my dad do that with an open sight 30-06 when I was a kid. I've already turned down bucks at this distance because I've only shot to 200 yards at the range. I bumped into someone who said something about the twist and certain guns like different ammo. I wasn't paying attention. So I found this website and decided to make it my starting point. I have a feeling I'll be re-loading my own ammo after I get it all figured out.
I can't find a model on my riffle. It has an "L" and 4 numbers Lxxxx It's a Belgium Safari and has white and gold engraving on the bottom of the receiver and trigger guard. that's all I really no about it. I don't spend to much time on the web, but I'll see what I can find out. I guess I was being lazy logging on to this site looking for a simple answer. Sorry about that! One last question before I start my research on the web. Once I find the bore "twist" will that make a difference in ammo I buy or ammo I make? Or better yet, a quick dumb question what what does twist have to do with anything?
 
The twist rate will only truly be important when dealing with very heavy or very light bullets. The standard 1:10 is fine for 150-200 grain bullets in a 30-06.

500 yards is a long way out. At that distance a laser rangefinder will be critical, as a guestimate off by 25 yards will be the difference between a good hit and a miss (or worse a cripple) since the bullet trajectory will be falling off quickly.

For deer sized animals most any of the premium 150 to 165 grain hunting bullets work fine. The challenge will be finding one that is accurate enough for your chosen distance. The heart/lung area on a deer is about an 8 inch target. At 500 yards that is 3/4 MOA. So you need to find a load that your gun regularly groups into 1-1/2" or better when you are practicing at the 200 yard target. If you cannot consistently achieve that level of accuracy, then the 500 yard shot is beyond your current capabilities and you are doing the right thing by passing them up.

** Correction: 1-1/2" at 100 yards with 1.6 MOA
 
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some pics would be of great help identifying your gun, and if you want to post them, make shure you sent some of the proofmarks along.

The serial would indicate a pre 58 rifle but i'm no specialist on that

twist rate combined with bullet weight determine how fast your bullet will spin and thus how accurate it will fly.
Every caliber - bullet weight has his ideal twist rate, just to keep it simple.
 
The heart/lung area on a deer is about an 8 inch target. At 500 yards that is 3/4 MOA. So you need to find a load that your gun regularly groups into 1-1/2" or better when you are practicing at the 200 yard target
Click to expand...

I can't even imagine shooting sub-MOA offhand or in a field position.
 
Quote:
The heart/lung area on a deer is about an 8 inch target. At 500 yards that is 3/4 MOA. So you need to find a load that your gun regularly groups into 1-1/2" or better when you are practicing at the 200 yard target

I can't even imagine shooting sub-MOA offhand or in a field position.
Click to expand...

Correcting my math error ---> 8" / 5 = 1.6 so all shots with 1-1/2" at 100 yards, looking for 3" groups at 200 yards from field positions. Doesn't change much the difficulty of the situation. Many guns are perfectly capable of the level of precision required with decent factory ammo. Most shooters do not have the capability to shoot with that level of accuracy away from a shooting bench. Consider the official 200 yard rifle target for high power slow fire standing has a 13" center black with 7-3/4" ten ring. So although the skill is achievable with practice, the average shooter probably does not have that level.

Most 30-06 loads drop 18 to 25 inches between 400 to 500 yards depending on the bullet used, so small errors in yardage judgment can put the bullet over the back or under the brisket of average size deer. Hence the need for precise distance readings.

Frankly is it an inspiring goal to be that good of a shooter. On the other hand, getting within 500 yards of deer is not quite as high a bar for hunting prowess. If you can get closer it's always a better choice.
 
The heart/lung area on a deer is about an 8 inch target. At 500 yards that is 3/4 MOA.
Click to expand...

How did you derive 3/4 MOA? If 1 MOA = 1.0" (actually 1.047") at 100 yards then 1 MOA at 200 yards = 2.0", 1 MOA at 300 yards = 3.0 inches ... and 1 MOA at 800 yards would equal 8.0 inches. So the question is at 500 yards how many MOA is 8.0". Wouldn't the answer be greater than 1.0 MOA?

(Distance to target in yards) / (100) = inches per MOA at that distance.

500 yards / 100 = 5.0" So at 500 yards 1.0 MOA = 5". Then for 8" at 500 yards doesn't it become roughly 8" / 5" = 1.6 MOA? So if the question is how many MOA is 8.0" at 500 yards the answer should be 1.6 MOA or am I looking at this incorrectly? The numbers being approximate.

Anyway, for a 500 yard shot on deer size game you need good equipment meaning real good optics. I would also have the rifle on a rest and know how high you need to hold. That means knowing the ballistics for the bullet you plan to shoot.

<EDIT>Nevermind, I see you changed it while I was typing. :) </EDIT>

Ron
 
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My daughter put these pics up for me, I take no credit.

Some day I would like to shoot this gun 500 yards at a target. Maybe at a deer if I get dialed in and confident. I'll take your advice to achieve this.

For now I think I'll stick with Nosler 150 grain if my bore twist is ok with that ammo. I do want to learn and make progress into the reloading world. I will be hitting you guys up for re-load help down the line.

I still don't have any idea what my bore twist is. My riffle does not have a model. Just a serial number the letter (L) with 4 numbers (Lxxxx) I put blue tape over the last 3 serial numbers.
I don't have much to offer y'all at this stage of being so green, thank you is all I got.
 
There is no need whatever to worry about your twist rate.
150-165 grain loads will be fine in your rifle for the deer you're looking to hunt.
Just experiment with different commercial rounds in that weight range, find the most accurate, zero your scope correctly, and you're in business.

500 yards is not a realistic expectation on deer, I don't care what your Dad did. :)
Yes, it CAN be done, but it's not practical for most & I'd suspect that was more luck than anything, something you should not expect to duplicate routinely.
Denis
 
Thanks guys, you gave me a good starting point.
For the record the deer I want to shoot would be 100 yards out. When you see a nice buck on a hillside out of range and it's the last weekend, you can't help not wanting to be able to take it down.But I have good enough ethics to only make a kill shot.
So you don't care what my Dad did? Totally understandable, sorry I brought it up. It was just one of those things that stick in your head as a youngster.
If you like stories? He did it with an old Springfield military riffle, I think it was re-bored to 30-06 (not sure)
I was 12 yrs old, we were in Nevada up in the mountains of the high desert. The deer was over 500 yards and my Dad said that the site covered the deer, so all my Dad could see was the sites. Anyway, my older brother had binoculars on the deer. The deer just stood there like a deer in headlights. The first 3 shots my Dad aimed high and kicked up dust over the deer, each time getting lower and the 4th shot dropped him in his tracks. I'm pretty sure it was a lung shot. I know it wasn't a gut shot and if it was a heart shot I would have remembered that. This story should be listed under "impossible iron sight shots" I'm sure our military boys boys from back in the day made many of those shots. Only like my Dad, they didn't worry about a humane kill. Dad wasn't perfect but he's still my Dad.
 
Meant no offense about your father, it was just a method of wording the idea that you should not expect to routinely duplicate 500-yard shots on deer.

Howbout we do it like this: "Regardless of what your Dad did..." :)
Sound better?

Don't let that one sentence divert from the main points-
You don't need to worry about your twist rate.
500 yards is a very long shot to be taking on a deer.
Try several 150-165 grain loads & see what works best in your rifle.
There is no "best" commercial load anybody can recommend to you.
Denis
 
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I created an album if you want to check out my gun. I'll try to put a picture up again. You guys gave me more than enough info at my level. Thank you again.
Hey Denis sorry I made you explain yourself. I'm a rookie and I will learn. Thanks for your patience.
 
according to the proofmarks, your beautifull rifle was build at the FN plant in Liege, Belgium and it was proofed in Liege by Sylvain Wagemans, who did this job from 1951 to 1965.

The Mausers build by fn during this period are near perfect guns (i have one they build for the israeli army as a sniper rifle) and they carry a premium price as far as I know.
Please take good care of it, after all we only have these on lone from our kids.
 
Gorgeous rifle that! I have a Safari Grade FN\Browning in .338 Win which varies slightly from your '06. The serial on mine starts '7L xxxxx', the 'L' denoting a couple of different years manufacture date, depending on grade.

For grins, I'd suggest a web search for FN\Browning Medallion or Olympian grade rifles. I'm quite happy with the finish on my Safari Grade even if I think it is a 'little' much, but those two uber grades!!! Those are artworks!! On a practical aspect, I really like the finish on yours.. looks like oil at least.

The .30-06 FN/Browning (Belgian Mauser manufacture) has been mentioned to have 1:12 twist in two data points I've found. The long actions of the 'FN Brownings' were Mausers, the medium & short actions were Sako, and I *believe* the rifles were made by those companies, not just the actions. (I reserve the right to be dead wrong on that though.) There have been some changes to that scheme over the years, but it seems to be generally true.

Generally speaking, the faster twist 1:10 should stabilize a heavier bullet better than the slower 1:12 at long ranges. (One turn in 10 inches versus one turn in 12 inches). See the link below.

Twist article primer:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifling_twist_rate.htm

FN/Browning serial numbers/dates:
http://proofhouse.com/browning/fn_sako_hp.htm

Nick
 
I have the same rifle. Its a shooter! Just "feels" like a rifle. Mine liked Fed Premium 150 gr factory loads a lot. I reload so I worked up a 165 gr load that it really loves. Forget about the twist rate. Just zero about an inch and a half high at 100 and hold dead on to about 225.
 
A nice looking rifle.
Hint: The correct ammunition will say ".30-06" on the box.
I have shot everything from 130 to 190 grain bullets in mine.
I would pick a 150 or 165 grain bullet for deer hunting.
A friend shoots elk with 200 grain bullets.
If I wanted to wring it out at 500 yards, I would go with a 175 grain boattail spitzer.

Rifling twist is overstudied these days, too much Internet Expertise at work.
It only gets important for specialist target shooting.
 
Dirt rd. Dave;

That's a beautiful rifle. The action is a Mauser, because the initial design was created by Paul Mauser, not a mouser. A small point, but one that will serve you well in the future when discussing firearms.

I'll also suggest using ammunition with a 150 grain bullet. There's nothing wrong with the 165's or 180's, but for you're intended use the 150 will deliver and the extra velocity will help as you go to longer ranges. Five hundred yards is a long way off, over a quarter mile. Takes more than a little practice to reliably shoot that distance and be sure of the result.

900F
 
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