i should put it in my sig line. All you need is a 30-06, ammo, a 4 X scope and practice. Thats it. Been proven many times over by men, much tougher, smarter, and more able than almost all men of today. If you practice enough with this combo, the only limiting factor is how big is the animal, and is he close enough to kill me.
Browning: Factory Fast-Twist .270 Winchester
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Yep, that would be a good sig line.
I do question how that has anything to do with the current conversation tho?
Nature Boy
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Every .270 should come with a free outfit.
traditional 270
fast twist 270
traditional 270
fast twist 270
Sorry, all the text I read about "extending the range of the 270" when most accomplished hunters already know the 270 Win does not lack for effective range in the first place. In fact a very good hunter I knew of, took a trophy ram at 500 yds. with the aforementioned combo, back in the 1950's.
So it seems that today the discussion is more about theoretical advantages than what skilled hunters really need.
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Gun-Reck
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The .280 AI seems pretty popular.
A fast-twist .270 Winchester will do the same thing, with a ten-grain lighter bullet, and less powder and recoil.
The U.S. Military likes the caliber as well.
An Interesting analysis and education:
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Gun-Reck
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What is interesting, the "Modern cartridge" opponents, crying "velocity," to this fast-twist, high BC offering of the ole .270 Winchester, given the efficiency of high BC bullets like, say, the 150 gr. ABLR?
Would hit with the same velocity/energy at ~ 400 yards as the .270 WSM does with a full house 150 gr. Partition load using 70 gr. (10 gr. more) of powder.
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Nature Boy
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I’ve always considered the .280 AI less popular and underrated compared to the .270
But what do I know, I’m a .308 fan
If we didnt hash out the theoretical, or delve into the minutiae, we wouldn't have anything to talk about lol.
If I only owned what I needed I wouldnt own any firearms besides a single AR15 or possibly 12ga pump, and If I only hunted what I needed it would be at the grocery store......
The real question IMO isnt "what do I need" its more like "what do i want". Which is where we can really have discussions and express opinions.
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Again IMO, the older military bores (and cartridges to a degree) have a bit of an advantage over the "sporting" bores simply because early military bullets called for long throats and relatively fast twists. They have access to more bullet weights and generally are less specialized.I’ve always considered the .280 AI less popular and underrated compared to the .270
But what do I know, I’m a .308 fan
Im not much of a fan of the .270 honestly, but IF im being honest there isnt really anything hunting related my .280AI could do in my hands that it doesn't do equally well.....Give it a fast twist and turn it into an AI....and ya know, you might be able to convince me its the ideal 06 based cartridge for hunting non-dangerous game......Then again I AM a .284 bore fan......
WisBorn
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I'm with you here! I'm not a 270 win fan. If Jack would have used the 280 Rem it would have been the more popular of the 2.
The 7mm bore has become a favorite of mine through using it. My favorite North American game cartridge is the 308win. But the energy and trajectory of the 7rm has made it a favorite of mine!
There is no doubt 7mm magnum is a real workhorse. Most shooters do start to flinch at that recoil though
Chuck R.
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I've been hunting with a .270 for a lot of years, primarily with the 130s, just because that combo works well on deer.
I couple years ago I replaced my Steyr "Professional" with a Nolser M48 because the barrel was shot out and re-barreling one just isn't cost effective due to Steyr's older process. IF I could have, it would be with a fast twist, even though I'd still stick with the 130s. IMHO it makes no sense to leave capability on the table, when the cost is the same.
This past season I went on a guided mulie hunt in MT. Prior to going I did some research on what load to use. Apparently some 1-10 .270s will shoot the Nolser 150 ABLR well. My 24" barreled Nosler M48 was a candidate, but when I checked the ballistics of the 150 ABLR at 2900, compared to my 3170 AB, the 130 load was still barely ahead out to 500+, so that's what I stuck with. Turns out I shot a decent buck at a little over 250yds. Interestingly, out of 7 guys in the group, only 1 took a shot at past 300yds and the terrain was pretty open. What's even more interesting (or sad) was that 3 out of 7 of us had 1 shot kills regardless of twist rates etc.
So for most guys, fast twist VS standard 1:10 is moot as the 130s and 150s will handle what they're going to use the .270 for. But, why not get the added flexibility?
I couple years ago I replaced my Steyr "Professional" with a Nolser M48 because the barrel was shot out and re-barreling one just isn't cost effective due to Steyr's older process. IF I could have, it would be with a fast twist, even though I'd still stick with the 130s. IMHO it makes no sense to leave capability on the table, when the cost is the same.
This past season I went on a guided mulie hunt in MT. Prior to going I did some research on what load to use. Apparently some 1-10 .270s will shoot the Nolser 150 ABLR well. My 24" barreled Nosler M48 was a candidate, but when I checked the ballistics of the 150 ABLR at 2900, compared to my 3170 AB, the 130 load was still barely ahead out to 500+, so that's what I stuck with. Turns out I shot a decent buck at a little over 250yds. Interestingly, out of 7 guys in the group, only 1 took a shot at past 300yds and the terrain was pretty open. What's even more interesting (or sad) was that 3 out of 7 of us had 1 shot kills regardless of twist rates etc.
So for most guys, fast twist VS standard 1:10 is moot as the 130s and 150s will handle what they're going to use the .270 for. But, why not get the added flexibility?
WisBorn
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That is why I personally don't recommend magnums to individuals that I don't know what there recoil tolerance is. I also like the 300WM and 300wsm, but most shooters can't manage there recoil in hunting weight rifle.
I recommend the 308 win with reduced recoil loads to new hunters. It is manageable and in a lifetime cartridge!
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The point is, with the faster twist-rate barrel and higher BC bullets - the terminal velocity at that range would be essentially the same, with ten grains less powder and recoil.
That's it.
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WisBorn
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The faster twist barrel is need to stabilize a longer/heavier bullet that has a higher BC that will retain velocity better.
You still get more velocity from more powder capacity. It may not be as efficient, but the magic is to find a good balance. That said 150gr bullets from the 270 win is a great balance.
Move up to the 6.8 western or 7mm wsm and the heavier bullets with fast twist rates shine because they can be pushed faster.
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It will also stabilize the high BC 150 gr. bullets, which have degraded BC's due to that 1:10 twist instability.
Muzzle velocity? Sure.
But who cares about muzzle velocity in a long range hunting rifle, unless you are calculating recoil, or possibly drop. That is the 6.5 CM's claim to fame.
Impact Velocity - is what does the work on game.
And the .270 Winchester high-twist barrel and high BC bullet will match the .270 WSM, with a very good 1:10 twist barrel and bullet, at 300 yards, with 10 grains less powder and recoil.
What's wrong with that?
The .280 AI has a good balance, as well as the capacity to shoot heavier, higher SD/BC bullets.
Is there some reason why the .270 Winchester, same parent cartridge and whose bullet diameter is just 0.007" smaller, and ~ 10 gr. lighter for a given SD, should be excluded, for the simple fact that it was not a Military caliber at the time it was developed, so it wasn't twisted for long ball rounds?
This is what intrigues me with this argument.
And the .270 Winchester high-twist barrel and high BC bullet will match the .270 WSM, with a very good 1:10 twist barrel and bullet, at 300 yards, with 10 grains less powder and recoil.
What's wrong with that?
Actually, though you did not pick specific bullets and BCs, I think I know what you are trying to say and the yardage where this type of comparison can be made is nearer to 425 yds. or slightly beyond, unless we are talki g about win d drift where the high BC bullets will realize a small advantage (imperceivable in hunting situations) around 350 yds.
Published Nosler Data:
270 WSM 140 gr. Accubond. 200 yd zero, 10mph crosswind
Max listed MV= 3264 f.p.s.
BC= .460
425 yd. Velocity = 2402
425 yd Energy = 1794
425 yd. Drop = 19.4
425 yd. Drift = 11.5
270 Win. 165 gr. ABLR. 200 yd zero, 10mph crosswind
Max listed MV= 2828 f.p.s. (160 gr.)
BC= .620
425 yd. Velocity = 2231
425 yd Energy = 1824
425 yd. Drop = 24.5
425 yd. Drift = 10.1
What's wrong with that?
Actually, though you did not pick specific bullets and BCs, I think I know what you are trying to say and the yardage where this type of comparison can be made is nearer to 425 yds. or slightly beyond, unless we are talki g about win d drift where the high BC bullets will realize a small advantage (imperceivable in hunting situations) around 350 yds.
Published Nosler Data:
270 WSM 140 gr. Accubond. 200 yd zero, 10mph crosswind
Max listed MV= 3264 f.p.s.
BC= .460
425 yd. Velocity = 2402
425 yd Energy = 1794
425 yd. Drop = 19.4
425 yd. Drift = 11.5
270 Win. 165 gr. ABLR. 200 yd zero, 10mph crosswind
Max listed MV= 2828 f.p.s. (160 gr.)
BC= .620
425 yd. Velocity = 2231
425 yd Energy = 1824
425 yd. Drop = 24.5
425 yd. Drift = 10.1
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Nature Boy
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What about a fast twist 30-06?
Chuck R.
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In one word.. Wind
Higher BC, higher velocity, larger margin of error for the greatest challenge, reading wind.
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Actually picked the 150 gr. Partition for the WSM and the same wt. ABLR for the Win., good 1:10 and 1:8 twist bullets.
And that is ~ 300 yards.
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Gun-Reck
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The higher BC 150 ABLR can be pushed at the same velocity as the 150 Partition, and maybe faster if long loaded/throated.
Even the 165 gr. ABLR is no velocity slouch and has an even better BC/SD, and brings 1,500 ft-lbs to the 600 yard line.
All from the ole .270 Winchester.
What's wrong with that?
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