Speaking of Fast-Twist .270's...

[Garandimal]

You can gain the velocities with same bullets in a true short action, without needing a custom build, and the barrel is twisted right for the long wind buckers. If the .270 came with a fast twist and could handle the longs, this wouldn't be much of a topic. Past 300 yds the wind on the 6.5 143 and 156 eld/vld will be less of an issue than ANY standard .270 loading. To really gain more ground, you need more powder under the 6.5 (prc, Norma, win mag, leopard, etc) or bump up to a fast 7 (aforementioned) the .270 with a fast enough twist and appropriate bullets is dandy enough, but realistically that's more custom at this time than either a .264 or .284 endeavor.

The new 6.8 WESTERN cartridge got me thinkin' about that...

And have come up w/ a 24" varmint contour 1:8 twist Bbl., .270 WCF case, throated to the 6.8 WESTERN cartridge, and long-loaded to fit the Remington M700 3.600" long action magazine.

The .270 LAWGR (Long Action Winchester)

Should be ~ a 9.5-10 lb. rifle scoped, and shoot 150-175 gr. Partition/ELD bullets at the 3100-2850 fps of the new cartridge, using std. .270 WCF reloading components.

That's 1,500 ft-lbs at 600 yds w/ the 150 gr. ABLR, and supersonic past 1,300 yards.

Maybe ~ 800 yds for the 175 gr. in the pipeline.


Haven't figured out what it's good for yet.




GR

 

[LoonWulf]

Just ran the numbers in quickloads (using default data) with a 170 eol. You should theoretically be able to get 2850 with a 24" tube and a 3.4ish coal. Ill re-run it when i get home with a 3.6coal

 

[Garandimal]

Just ran the numbers in quickloads (using default data) with a 170 eol. You should theoretically be able to get 2850 with a 24" tube and a 3.4ish coal. Ill re-run it when i get home with a 3.6coal

Loaded case capacity should be ~ 1-1.5 grs H2O less than the 6.8 W.

The 150 gr. ABLR is the longest I've checked at a little over 3.5 COAL.




GR

 

[horsey300]

The new 6.8 WESTERN cartridge got me thinkin' about that...

And have come up w/ a 24" varmint contour 1:8 twist Bbl., .270 WCF case, throated to the 6.8 WESTERN cartridge, and long-loaded to fit the Remington M700 3.600" long action magazine.

The .270 LAWGR (Long Action Winchester)

Should be ~ a 9.5-10 lb. rifle scoped, and shoot 150-175 gr. Partition/ELD bullets at the 3100-2850 fps of the new cartridge, using std. .270 WCF reloading components.

That's 1,500 ft-lbs at 600 yds w/ the 150 gr. ABLR, and supersonic past 1,300 yards.

Maybe ~ 800 yds for the 175 gr. in the pipeline.


Haven't figured out what it's good for yet.




GR

This would finally get the .277s to the place they SHOULD have been pre jackomania. This will inspire further delving into more efficiently used projectiles and barrels in an age where it takes more that mere overbore speed to wow your date. A 170 .277 cruising fast (to me 2700+ is fast enough to be "fast") is pushing closer to the place I like to be with wind bucking. The majority of my hunting is done with 10-30 mph winds (simply don't go out sometimes because wind is 40+) so longer pills are a good thing out on the desert, plains etc. This new winchester addition will be able to compete with the likes of the 6.5 norma and prc. With a properly weighted and balanced rifle, it could very well be ok for much more, I don't think I'd want it in a light kimber and agree 9ish lbs would be good. Still shy of the Uber 6.5s, Uber 7s, but it's headed in the right direction, maybe someday a grandkid will tote one!

 

[Gordon]

.270 WSM with 145 ELD X 63+- grains of H4831 Federal 215 COL 2.785" = 3150FPS +- from 24" barrel Winchester Model 70 Ultimate Classic .

 

[horsey300]

.270 WSM with 145 ELD X 63+- grains of H4831 COL 2.785" = 315- +- from 24" barrel Winchester Model 70 Ultimate Classic .

I have a .270 wsm, but I'd still like a faster twist barrel lol.

 

[Gordon]

I have a .270 wsm, but I'd still like a faster twist barrel lol.

The 145 ELD X bullet does stabilize ok in the factory 1 in 10" . all 150s do to that I know of. LOnger/heavier than 150 grain will indeed need a faster twist.

 

[horsey300]

The 145 ELD X bullet does stabilize ok in the factory 1 in 10" . all 150s do to that I know of. LOnger/heavier than 150 grain will indeed need a faster twist.

Yeah, the 165 nosler or 170 eol is where I'd REALLY like to put the wsm, federals tlr/edge bullet, Hornady 145, and the tgk are all about as good as I think it will get for the 10twisters.

 

[LoonWulf]

Loaded case capacity should be ~ 1-1.5 grs H2O less than the 6.8 W.

The 150 gr. ABLR is the longest I've checked at a little over 3.5 COAL.




GR

Ive still got some full lengthed sized win or federal .270 brass i think. Ill grab a water capacity measurement from one this evening. Im working with the .28 nosler, and trying to build a 190 etip bullet model since QL dosent have it.

The 145 ELD X bullet does stabilize ok in the factory 1 in 10" . all 150s do to that I know of. LOnger/heavier than 150 grain will indeed need a faster twist.

The 150 ablrs didnt out of my Vanguard, but the 145eldx shoot fantastic.

 

[Gordon]

Ive still got some full lengthed sized win or federal .270 brass i think. Ill grab a water capacity measurement from one this evening. Im working with the .28 nosler, and trying to build a 190 etip bullet model since QL dosent have it.



The 150 ablrs didnt out of my Vanguard, but the 145eldx shoot fantastic.

I never shot a 150 ablrs, I don't know what it is, sounds looong tho !

Oh ! I see !
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010509846?pid=440671

 

[horsey300]

The new 6.8 WESTERN cartridge got me thinkin' about that...

And have come up w/ a 24" varmint contour 1:8 twist Bbl., .270 WCF case, throated to the 6.8 WESTERN cartridge, and long-loaded to fit the Remington M700 3.600" long action magazine.

The .270 LAWGR (Long Action Winchester)

Should be ~ a 9.5-10 lb. rifle scoped, and shoot 150-175 gr. Partition/ELD bullets at the 3100-2850 fps of the new cartridge, using std. .270 WCF reloading components.

That's 1,500 ft-lbs at 600 yds w/ the 150 gr. ABLR, and supersonic past 1,300 yards.

Maybe ~ 800 yds for the 175 gr. in the pipeline.


Haven't figured out what it's good for yet.




GR

As far as what it's good for, get off the fpe, look at impact velocities on the 145/165/170 types, look at wind bucking as well, it'll do everything the .270 does with current loadings, farther away and with more authority at similar distances. Longer bullet=better. More speed=more better. All this could equate to more outfitters allowing "less than" .300win mags for hunts, definitely increases raw number hit percentage, and raw number downrange performance. If he'd have been handed a .280ai, jack would have written differently and I doubt anything .277 would have ever caught on, awkwardly between .25-06 and .280ai..... Winchester is fixing the .277 to fulfill its potential, a 170 eol or 150 Barnes in the western will be a real dandy, not reinventing the wheel or making a better wheel, just giving the gal a better differential!

 

[LoonWulf]

Went back and ran the numbers with the averaged water volume for 5 federal cases sized and primed. So the standard value for a .270 win was 67gr of water, my averaged weight was 67.3

COAL with the top of the boat tail of the 170 Elite Hunter at the neck-shoulder junctions calls for a COAL of 3.42, which should be doable in most standard length magazine. I think the Hawkeye I had was the shortest at 3.43ish.
Velocity with RL-26 (not the fastest but not far off, and the only one I've ever seen in person) was predicted to be about 2870

Loaded so that there is exactly one caliber worth of bullet shank in the neck, the COAL comes out to 3.52, and you net another 10FPS of velocity over the prediction with a 3.43.

Using the same data, but substituting the 150gr ABLR, it looks like 3000fps is probably doable.

The magic ingredient appears to be RL-26 tho....Or some Reloader Swiss powders I've never seen.

 

[LoonWulf]

I never shot a 150 ablrs, I don't know what it is, sounds looong tho !

Oh ! I see !
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1010509846?pid=440671

Yep that's them. Besides not doing what I wanted (like shooting a group), they looked like fantastic bullets.
The WHOLE ABLR line is surprisingly long, and they carry a really high BC.
In this picture you can see the 168gr .284 ABLR, is almost the same length as the 185RDF.
They are the gray one, and the hollow point in the middle.

 

[gotboostvr]

Winchester is fixing the .277 to fulfill its potential, a 170 eol or 150 Barnes in the western will be a real dandy, not reinventing the wheel or making a better wheel, just giving the gal a better differential!

I think if they just blew the 270win out to an AI, and gave it a faster twist then leaned heavily on advertising and pointing out that you can still shoot regular 270win in it, they'd sell pretty well.

 

[sage5907]

I have a close friend that I am around every year during deer season and as a friend I do his deer taxidermy work for him. For the past three years he has been using a fast twist 270 built by using the 300 Norma case necked down to 270 caliber with a 1:8 twist. He has been using the Berger Classic Hunter EOL 170 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of about 3200 fps. The owner is a very experienced PRS competitor. I mention this because I handled the deer he took previously and also the deer he shot in 2020. This bullet may be liked by some hunters but to me it should not be used on animals larger than deer with very high velocity because it blows up really quickly. What I have seen is that the bullet goes through the skin and then completely comes apart. This year the impact didn't even penetrate the far skin on a 170 pound deer. The round struck the center of the body about where the liver is located. This 2020 deer was shot at about 160 yards and the bullets have a very thin jacket that won't stand up to high velocity when a close shot is taken..

 

[horsey300]

I have a close friend that I am around every year during deer season and as a friend I do his deer taxidermy work for him. For the past three years he has been using a fast twist 270 built by using the 300 Norma case necked down to 270 caliber with a 1:8 twist. He has been using the Berger Classic Hunter EOL 170 grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of about 3200 fps. The owner is a very experienced PRS competitor. I mention this because I handled the deer he took previously and also the deer he shot in 2020. This bullet may be liked by some hunters but to me it should not be used on animals larger than deer with very high velocity because it blows up really quickly. What I have seen is that the bullet goes through the skin and then completely comes apart. This year the impact didn't even penetrate the far skin on a 170 pound deer. The round struck the center of the body about where the liver is located. This 2020 deer was shot at about 160 yards and the bullets have a very thin jacket that won't stand up to high velocity when a close shot is taken..

Yeah I like my Berger impacts between 1600-2700 that makes sense.

 

[Garandimal]

Went back and ran the numbers with the averaged water volume for 5 federal cases sized and primed. So the standard value for a .270 win was 67gr of water, my averaged weight was 67.3

COAL with the top of the boat tail of the 170 Elite Hunter at the neck-shoulder junctions calls for a COAL of 3.42, which should be doable in most standard length magazine. I think the Hawkeye I had was the shortest at 3.43ish.
Velocity with RL-26 (not the fastest but not far off, and the only one I've ever seen in person) was predicted to be about 2870

Loaded so that there is exactly one caliber worth of bullet shank in the neck, the COAL comes out to 3.52, and you net another 10FPS of velocity over the prediction with a 3.43.

Using the same data, but substituting the 150gr ABLR, it looks like 3000fps is probably doable.

The magic ingredient appears to be RL-26 tho....Or some Reloader Swiss powders I've never seen.

The 150 ABLR's appear to have the best payoff.

Although a 175 gr. at 2800 or so would be interesting.

And lack of available reloading components like RL-26 (or H4831sc for that matter) is not encouraging this project in the least.




GR

 

[LoonWulf]

Id have to go back and look but the 7828 and 7828ssc were both up there. I think they gave up 50fps or so on RL-26. Ive had issues with QLs 7828 predictions tho, so it could be way off on "safe" pressure. All of these predictions were spec'd at 62k so they are right up near the top.

 

[Garandimal]

Id have to go back and look but the 7828 and 7828ssc were both up there. I think they gave up 50fps or so on RL-26. Ive had issues with QLs 7828 predictions tho, so it could be way off on "safe" pressure. All of these predictions were spec'd at 62k so they are right up near the top.

I'm sure that would work as well, especially w/ the 24" Bbl.

RL-26 seems to have near magical properties in the .270 WIN case.

150 gr. NP at 3100...?

That right there is a 600 yd. deer load.




GR

 

[LoonWulf]

I'm sure that would work as well, especially w/ the 24" Bbl.

RL-26 seems to have near magical properties in the .270 WIN case.

150 gr. NP at 3100...?

That right there is a 600 yd. deer load.




GR

RL-26 is ideal for the heavy bullets in the 06 family. I wish it were more available.
RL-33 looks like it might work well also, but under heavy compression.

 

[Garandimal]

RL-26 is ideal for the heavy bullets in the 06 family. I wish it were more available.
RL-33 looks like it might work well also, but under heavy compression.

Thinkin' about stickin' w/ H4831sc and maybe 3,000 fps/150 gr./24" Bbl.

Got to do everything I can imagine needing from a rifle.

And it's uber stable, so stout loads will be safe and consistent year round.

RL-26 has a pressure and heat characteristic that is disturbing, and is hard on brass and probably pretty hard on Bbls, too.


Was just lookin' at the new Weatherby 6.5 RPM.

Does everything the .270 LAWGR can do... w/ a unique case and 1/3 more powder.



...and lacks the 150 gr. ABLR/600 yd performance.




GR

 

[LoonWulf]

Thinkin' about stickin' w/ H4831sc and maybe 3,000 fps/150 gr./24" Bbl.

Got to do everything I can imagine needing from a rifle.

And it's uber stable, so stout loads will be safe and consistent year round.

RL-26 has a pressure and heat characteristic that is disturbing, and is hard on brass and probably pretty hard on Bbls, too.


Was just lookin' at the new Weatherby 6.5 RPM.

Does everything the .270 LAWGR can do... w/ a unique case and 1/3 more powder.



...and lacks the 150 gr. ABLR/600 yd performance.




GR

I was thinking about it....the RPM might be a nice case to work from if using a standard bolt face. "standard" magnum capacity, with a standard bolt face wouldn't be neat for someone who REALLY liked a specific rifle, but wanted more oomph than they could get from a regular 06AI size case. I don't have a profile for it in my version of quickloads, but I might take the time to build one if I can get an accurate water capacity.
Id probably just opt for a .264win, .270wby, or 7mm Remington, but it would still be cool.

 

[Garandimal]

I was thinking about it....the RPM might be a nice case to work from if using a standard bolt face. "standard" magnum capacity, with a standard bolt face wouldn't be neat for someone who REALLY liked a specific rifle, but wanted more oomph than they could get from a regular 06AI size case. I don't have a profile for it in my version of quickloads, but I might take the time to build one if I can get an accurate water capacity.
Id probably just opt for a .264win, .270wby, or 7mm Remington, but it would still be cool.

60 grns. of powder and 160 grs. of bullet - is about my limit on man-portable shoulder-fired weapons.

Been rethinkin' the whole thing, in retrospect.

With the addition of a decent Range-finder... the ole .270 WCF will knock'em down out to near 500 yards w/ most any BC friendly heavy bullet and a really tight load.

So I may just go that route.

Keep the 150 gr. GS/2800 fps load for the woods and Basin, and then develop a really tight 150 gr. NP or SST long range round, at b/t 28-2900 fps, to use w/ the Range-finder out to 500 yds.




GR