Brushing necks, what exactly do you mean.

[Charlie98]

I wet tumble with pins, then use One Shot at a steep angle to get just a little bit in the case mouth. This is before resizing. I've never needed to do anything to help with bullet seating.

That's what I do, but with dry tumbling. OneShot to size, and then back in the tumbler again to get the lube off.

I don't consider the bushing as cleaning but rather just a way to apply dry lube.

That's how I understand it. I bought the Lyman version of the doodad Okie posted... and in 30+ years have never used it, beyond experimenting with it to see what it did. I may have even thrown it out, already, but I still have the half-pint can of Midway mica as well, gathering dust. When I bought my Lyman Case Prep machine, it, too, came with nylon neck brushes and a tiny thimble of mica dry lube... that seems to make more sense if you are already setting there chamfering case mouths... as part of the process. I'll have to think about that.

Understanding what neck tension does, I don't see how a lube, even a dry lube, would be beneficial to neck tension... it seems like it would be detrimental to neck tension. A nylon dry-brushed neck? Ok. A bronze brush? No way.

 

[jmorris]

If I am cleaning cases one at a time by hand, I use a nylon brush inside the neck.

 

[JmacD]

Ok, a question to insert; what about the “sealers” marketed to help waterproof ammo? (Primers and bullets) doesn’t that act as a lube as well?
ETA: maybe that needs a new thread.

 

[AJC1]

If I am cleaning cases one at a time by hand, I use a nylon brush inside the neck.

Anything on it?

 

[jmorris]

The debris its removing.

 

[JFrank]

I use a nylon brush the appropriate size to match the bullet diameter being loaded, my goal is to smooth out the rough carbon left inside the necks after combustion to reduce seating friction, which is not to be confused with dimensional difference between the bullet OD and the case neck ID. Brushing can be done by hand or by use if a spinning brush attached to a prep center.

 

[Charlie98]

The debris its removing.

I use a nylon brush the appropriate size to match the bullet diameter being loaded, my goal is to smooth out the rough carbon left inside the necks after combustion

Does a light nylon brush really remove the carbon? I'm not debating, but in my experience, carbon is a pretty tough customer. I guess I'm sort of in the AJC Camp... does it really have a benefit? Next time I'm on the Lyman case prep machine... maybe I'll give it a whirl... literally.

 

[Kaldor]

Does a light nylon brush really remove the carbon? I'm not debating, but in my experience, carbon is a pretty tough customer. I guess I'm sort of in the AJC Camp... does it really have a benefit? Next time I'm on the Lyman case prep machine... maybe I'll give it a whirl... literally.

I use a Lyman case prep, and my order for necks is:
Imperial dry lube
Sinclair mandrel (TiN)
trim to length on Giraud (with flat cutter)
Deburr, chamfer, bronze brush, nylon brush in Lyman case prep

I do wet sstl tumble, so my necks are completely devoid of any carbon. I use the dry lube mostly because it seems like it help with the mandrel and makes the seating more consistent vs a completely dry clean neck. Its all by feel as I dont have any way to really test it. I figure it cant hurt, so I do it.

 

[JFrank]

Does a light nylon brush really remove the carbon? I'm not debating, but in my experience, carbon is a pretty tough customer. I guess I'm sort of in the AJC Camp... does it really have a benefit? Next time I'm on the Lyman case prep machine... maybe I'll give it a whirl... literally.

No’ you’re not removing the baked on carbon layer, only burnishing the roughness, carbon is an excellent lube reducing seating friction. And yes the nylon brush is perfect for this application. All I takes is a quick pass or so with a brush to feel the results.

I promise..

 

[Varminterror]

Neck lubrication as a singular step in an overall case preparation process depends upon the preceding steps.

If a reloader is not cleaning cases, or is using a dry tumbler - in this process, we have carbon fouling remaining on the necks, so we brush with a nylon brush to knock off any "high" uneven parts and to distribute carbon throughout the neck as a means of "self-lubricating the necks" with the carbon infiltrate. Case cleaning media dust may also be present which act as a neck lube. Brushing with mica or graphite impregnated brushes or dipping necks in either lubrication media adds additional lubrication.

If reloader is wet tumbling or ultrasonic cleaning, the brass will not have infiltrates to be distributed by brushing, so new lubricants must be added, whether spraying with a powder-inert case lube like Hornady One Shot, brushing with mica or graphite, or dipping necks and/or bullets into a cannister of mica or graphite.

 

[Varminterror]

Ok, a question to insert; what about the “sealers” marketed to help waterproof ammo? (Primers and bullets) doesn’t that act as a lube as well?
ETA: maybe that needs a new thread.

Sealant is applied after the bullet has already been seated, so it's not acting as a lubricant for seating. Naturally, how much additional grip it may or may not introduce would depend on the nature of the sealant itself, but I'd bet heavily against anything productive coming from any sealant in the context of the discussion we're having here.

 

[Charlie98]

I guess my question would be: Is it necessary? Aside from additional lever effort to seat a bullet, is there a benefit to lubing, or even just brushing the necks? Would not lubrication... in the form of mica or graphite, or even, as Varmit suggests... OneShot, et al... defeat some of the benefit of neck tension holding the bullet? My thought is... if it's easier to put in the case, it's easier to pull (or push...) it out.

ETA: Thinking about it further... I guess if the necks already have carbon on them, the 'lube' is already there, regardless...

 

[JmacD]

Sealant is applied after the bullet has already been seated, so it's not acting as a lubricant for seating. Naturally, how much additional grip it may or may not introduce would depend on the nature of the sealant itself, but I'd bet heavily against anything productive coming from any sealant in the context of the discussion we're having here.

Good information. I’ve never used it, just seen it. That’s why I asked.

 

[JFrank]

I guess my question would be: Is it necessary? Aside from additional lever effort to seat a bullet, is there a benefit to lubing, or even just brushing the necks? Would not lubrication... in the form of mica or graphite, or even, as Varmit suggests... OneShot, et al... defeat some of the benefit of neck tension holding the bullet? My thought is... if it's easier to put in the case, it's easier to pull (or push...) it out.

ETA: Thinking about it further... I guess if the necks already have carbon on them, the 'lube' is already there, regardless...

@ nature boy cut his ES in half, personally I don’t tumble , a anneal or use any other lube. I would not seat bullets without burnishing the neck ID, I don’t care for gritty, rough and inconsistent seating force. In my camp it is without doubt necessary to brush.

 

[Charlie98]

@ nature boy cut his ES in half, personally I don’t tumble , a anneal or use any other lube. I would not seat bullets without burnishing the neck ID, I don’t care for gritty, rough and inconsistent seating force. In my camp it is without doubt necessary to brush.

Thank you.... that's good feedback.

 

[Varminterror]

I guess my question would be: Is it necessary? Aside from additional lever effort to seat a bullet, is there a benefit to lubing, or even just brushing the necks? Would not lubrication... in the form of mica or graphite, or even, as Varmit suggests... OneShot, et al... defeat some of the benefit of neck tension holding the bullet? My thought is... if it's easier to put in the case, it's easier to pull (or push...) it out.

ETA: Thinking about it further... I guess if the necks already have carbon on them, the 'lube' is already there, regardless...

Lubing the necks, whether adding a lubricant or using the inherent infiltrate carbon on the necks or dust from dry tumbling, helps make neck tension more consistent. If we have irregular, rough surfaces, the grip on the bullet will vary from one case to the next - as we discussed in another recent thread, the Force of Friction, Ff, is equal to the Coefficient of Friction, μ, times the Normal Force, N, with the Normal force being dictated by how tightly the case neck is squeezing the bullet, and the Coefficient of Friction being dependent upon the interactions between the two surfaces of the bullet and internal case neck. So by lubricating and unifying case necks, we're improving the consistency of the Coefficient of Friction, and by reducing μ, we're able to reduce the influence of inconsistencies as well... Sure, we might need a bit tighter neck interference to get ideal primary ignition, maybe it's 2 thou instead of only 1, but we control neck interference too, so it's not a problem...

The presence of carbon already on the necks isn't necessarily indicative that it's lubricating. Hard carbon persisting after firing is not uniform and isn't mobile, so it's not lubricating. Before brushing, carbon on the necks is like skateboard tape, rough and rigid. After brushing, that carbon is dressed and mobile, like graphite lube.

 

[AJC1]

Lubing the necks, whether adding a lubricant or using the inherent infiltrate carbon on the necks or dust from dry tumbling, helps make neck tension more consistent. If we have irregular, rough surfaces, the grip on the bullet will vary from one case to the next - as we discussed in another recent thread, the Force of Friction, Ff, is equal to the Coefficient of Friction, μ, times the Normal Force, N, with the Normal force being dictated by how tightly the case neck is squeezing the bullet, and the Coefficient of Friction being dependent upon the interactions between the two surfaces of the bullet and internal case neck. So by lubricating and unifying case necks, we're improving the consistency of the Coefficient of Friction, and by reducing μ, we're able to reduce the influence of inconsistencies as well... Sure, we might need a bit tighter neck interference to get ideal primary ignition, maybe it's 2 thou instead of only 1, but we control neck interference too, so it's not a problem...

The presence of carbon already on the necks isn't necessarily indicative that it's lubricating. Hard carbon persisting after firing is not uniform and isn't mobile, so it's not lubricating. Before brushing, carbon on the necks is like skateboard tape, rough and rigid. After brushing, that carbon is dressed and mobile, like graphite lube.

So is that carbon effectively transitioned to seating lubrication in one pass of a nylon brush?

 

[Varminterror]

So is that carbon effectively transitioned to seating lubrication in one pass of a nylon brush?

Yes.

Graphite, as some folks might not realize, is simply carbon which has been thermal-cycled to produce a tighter crystalline structure...

 

[Chief TC]

As I wrote earlier, my Lyman manual says to brush the necks to remove debris and is a step not often done by reloaders but helps with proper neck tension and accuracy. I only do it for my 30-06 cases. Just a quick extra step when I clean pockets or trim.

 

[Bazoo]

Interesting discussion.

I generally do not lube case necks for 30-30, which is the only bottle-necked case I reload currently. At one time, I tested whether or not cases stretched more or there was a noticeable difference between a regular steel and a carbide expander ball for 30-30. I didn't see any difference as to case stretching or the amount of force required with unlubed necks. At the time I didn't think to check whether or not neck lube changed things.

I tumble my brass, so a minute amount of dust from the tumbler as well as carbon from previous firings remain in the necks and offer some degree of lubrication. If I was loading cases that where wet tumbled or brand new, I'd either use Hornady One Shot, since some gets in the case mouth, or I'd lube using powdered graphite.

Edited for: I had a mind debacle when I first posted.

 

[OS/N]

I do these steps for all bottle neck cases:

1- tumble and/or wipe exterior clean
2- if using an OD bushing die lube case outside only. If and id ball die also use a brass bore brush and lightly lube the neck id after brushing out. A single drop of lube on a qtip can lube maybe six to ten necks - just needs a trace amount.
3- full length size case.
4- mount the mandrel side of the lee case trimming set in a bench top drill press (operate at slowest rpm).
5- fix a case in holder thats in the drill.
6- turn on press and do these steps in order without stopping the motor: trim to length, champher inside and out edge of case mouth, run a brass bore brush the same size as bullet up inside the case touching all inside surfaces, then use a polishing cloth on the outside of case to clean/polish it up.
7- shut off press, remove preped case, and place in block for next batch step (pocket cleaning and priming).

Takes about 10sec per case and all come out the same. I usually load batches of 50 or less at the same time but sometimes a hundred depending on the use or how many open holes I have in ammo boxes.

Added precaution info - just rotate the stock shelf/vise shelf of the drill press out of the way and do all steps by hand feeding. You are using the driven chuck only to hold, turn, and for stability. Do not get your hair or shirt sleeve caught in the turning spinning spindal (chuck) or you will not be a happy camper.

 

[JFrank]

I’ll size brass in advance, brushing along with all the chamfering and deburring but for whatever reason I still need to brush again prior to seating. I’m not sure if it’s oxidation or what but it’s definitely there.

 

[Charlie98]

Interesting discussion.

It really has been.

I checked last night... my Lyman brush set, and of course, my paint can full of mica... have been gathering dust on my bench for 25 years, at least. Time to break them out...

 

[Litetrigger]

One of the most practical-and useful- tools on my loading bench is this double ended neck brush- primer pockect cleaner made by Kenny Jerrett. A quick twist from each end has the case ready for reloading in moments. I don't know if Kenny made these to sell or just for friends. Perhaps a similar tool has been made by other equipment makers, if not it's certainly worth copying.

 

[gns4me]

I brush necks on .308 Roll on lube pad for body lube than every 3-4 case neck brush with nylon brush w/lube (RCBS Pad Lube) to help inside sizing. When done dry tumble with CC media to remove lube (1-2 hrs) . On .223/5.56 I ues one-shot and make sure i get it inside the neck (angle down spray) size then tumble to remove lube I also crimp all my loads when finished (light crimp)