BS Meter Went Off, Need Advice

[Woodsmoke]

I went into Gander Mountain in North Houston today to purchase an S&W Model 638.

My wife was with me as the revolver was going to be for her. She liked it due to the light weight and the great way it fit into her purse.

The clerk, who was the quintessential gun store commando, told her that if the revolver is struck hard enough on the back strap with a round under the hammer the gun will fire. He said this could happen if she drops her purse. Instead, he wanted to sell her a Taurus PT something or other. Personally, I thought it was complete BS since this guy was the reincarnation of Barney Fife and had just finished telling us how “we should trust his judgment as he plays with these guns all day”. How dare I not recognize his expertise. In fact, he told us a story of how his friend shot himself in the butt while holstering his Glock into a check six holster and then proceeded to lambaste Glocks and the people who own them.

My wife and I own many pistols and shoot them regularly, but we have never owned a revolver. Considering this is will be my wife’s carry gun I want her to be confident in her purchase. She asked me to do some research on it and I told her I knew just where to go.

I need your help as I don’t know if what Barney said is true or even loosely based on fact. The man was obnoxious and stupid, but even stupid people repeat correct information from time to time.

Thanks in advance.

 

[wuchak]

The good news is your BS Meter is working perfectly!

All modern double action revolvers, and most single actions use a transfer bar to transfer the energy of the hammer to the firing pin and are perfectly safe to carry with the hammer on a live round.

I'd let the manager know that his employee is dispensing bad information and perhaps he either needs additional training or he should keep his mouth shut and just show people what they want to see.

 

[bill larry]

Complete horse pooh. Shop elsewhere if possible.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Thank you gentleman. I will be purchasing the gun from Top Gun near where I work.

It really makes me mad when those behind the counter invent problems to dissuade people from buying the guns they want. I think I will write the manager.

 

[blutarsky]

...Gander Mountain in North Houston...

sorry to be slightly off-topic, but is that the one on 45? i've been there a few times, as recently as last friday to check on ammo (which i always tend to find cheaper at academy anyway). BUT i tend to swing by the gun counter and browse around while i'm there -- if it's the same store, i think i know exactly the guy you're talking about, and you're right that you'd do very well to ignore what you're told there. the handful of gun guys that i've dealt with there seem to be about the same, save for one of the older guys who is kind enough to just lay low and show what you ask for and not push something else.

anyway -- good luck

 

[MattB000]

At the gander mtn. here if you question the employee he will pull a .50 BMG casing out of his breast pocket and say "I have experience with all types of weapons, including military."

 

[Woodsmoke]

Yes, blutarsky, the store on I45 North is the one I went to last night.

If you have been there then you know who I am talking about. This guy is really young and it shows.

There is an older gentleman there with a beard that is very helpful, but he wasn't there tonight, much to my dismay.

 

[Trebor]

Ignore the guy. He's a jerk and doesn't know what he's talking about.

If he really becomes a PITA, complain to a manager, or at least let them know what kind of "advice" he's spouting.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Yeah, I probably should Trebor.

The only thing that makes me want to do something is what if my wife and I weren't experienced shooters or what if a woman had come into that store after being threatened and made the decision to purchase a gun. This might be the first encounter with gun owners that lady would have, and it would no doubt be a complete turn off. I'll think about it before writing.

Right now my biggest concern is whether or not the Scandium model is really worth twice the price of the Aluminum one?

 

[joab]

I need your help as I don’t know if what Barney said is true or even loosely based on fact. The man was obnoxious and stupid, but even stupid people repeat correct information from time to time.

maybe but not this time.
Do us all a favor and forward this to his area manager

I love our GM because even though the clerks, being people, have preferences I have never been subjected to an agenda.

 

[Stainz]

I believe all S&W revolvers since around the end of WWII have had the trigger-coupled hammer block. The trigger must be pulled for the hammer mounted firing pin to clear the block, or, the hammer to clear said block and strike the frame mounted firing pin. To test this, just take any modern S&W with a hammer, cock it, and while retarding the movement of the hammer, briefly pull the trigger to release said hammer. Watch the gap between the blast shield and cylinder - no firing pin protrusion. Normally, you cannot get your finger 'off' the trigger rapidly enough, once pulled, to prevent the hammer block from moving, permitting the fp to pop the primer and fire the round. Such a modern S&W will 'pass the drop test', mandatory for sales in CA, etc, and not fire accidently, whether cocked or not - and whether it is an open, shrouded, or enclosed hammer.

You'll recognize the hammer block, if you ever take a S&W sideplate off... it's the PITA piece that you must carefully align before the sideplate will fit back in place. Your BS meter is well calibrated. That guy reminds me of a nerd who argued with me at the local pusher's lair about many things. He even screamed at me one day, insisting TR's 'Rough Riders' favored the .30-06 '03 Springfield for their rifles as they 'charged' up San Juan Hill in Cuba. I tried reasoning, but somehow the fact that the battle was in 1898, the rifle developed in 1903, and the final round, the .30-06, was developed in 1906, all escaped him - he even screamed at me. His pilfering was caught, eventually, and he left. Another older guy, only there on Saturdays argued that S&W hadn't made a K-frame in years. I tried to show him pg 32 of the current '07 S&W catalog - titled 'Medium (K) Frame' (10, 64, 67, & 617). He walked away dog-cussing me. I don't know why, but many gun stores attract such help. Your BS meter is well calibrated!

Stainz

 

[jack the toad]

I hate those kind of people, wherever they may be.
They can be quite amusing but also very frustrating.
I think that if they're going to put out that BS (personal feelings. likes/dislikes, etc.) then they shouldn't get mad when I tell them my thoughts of how stupid they are.

 

[Iggy]

Right now my biggest concern is whether or not the Scandium model is really worth twice the price of the Aluminum one?
I would have to say NO.
Save your money and use it for ammunition.

 

[JimPGov]

Woodsmoke: Great Catch With The Bs Meter. "hobby Help" In Gun Stores Are The Main Causes Of Fairy Tales Of The Gun World. Jp

 

[Woodsmoke]

Thank you all. As usual, you guys do not disappoint. I emailed a link to this thread to my wife. More than likely we will go today and purchase the gun.

I am leaning more towards the Aluminum model. The extra $400 is just hard to justify, and it would buy a lot of ammo.

 

[Dravur]

whacky gun guys like this...

are like slinkies. They serve no useful purpose, but they bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.

 

[gtmtnbiker98]

while you're shopping check out the 642.

 

[Quoheleth]

While you're shopping, give Tomball Pawn a call. It's a bit of a drive from where I am (NE Harris County) but their prices are usually significantly cheaper than GM. I've called them once or twice about quotes (bought a GP100 there last spring) and they are hard to beat. And great people, too! Ask for Juan.

Quoheleth

 

[Carl N. Brown]

his friend shot himself in the butt while holstering his Glock

Anyone who holsters any pistol with his finger on the trigger
deserves to be shot in the butt. Some people learn no other way.

 

[Guy B. Meredith]

I think it'd be fun to buy something from the guy that he advises against just so he knows that people are calling his BS. As long as the price is good, of course.

 

[tkendrick]

To be expected:

Major sporting goods chain; looking to hire people behind the gun counter.

You would think their first questions would be about qualifications.

But their first questions will always be: Will you work on Sundays, weekends and holidays?

Question #2 will be: Will you work for minimum wage?

Then during training they teach you to push the secondary sales.

I once watched a young lady (who knew nothing about guns) behind a gun counter start to sell a box of 38 special ammo to a guy (who knew nothing about guns) who had just bought a 380 automatic.

I had to step in at that point. I don't think you could have EVER gotten one of those 38 Special rounds into that gun, but I shudder to think what would have happened had he managed it.

I have turned into one of those grouchy old customers that you sometimes read about here. Unlike some others, I have absolutely no problem looking at a clerk and telling him to his face that he is a f*#&!+g moron, and that if he wants to sell me something he needs to learn to keep his mouth shut, especially when he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Figure one of three things will happen:

1. He'll quit, no loss (you did the store owner a favor whether he knows it or not).

2. Manager will throw you out (hasn't happened yet).

3 Clerk might actually learn something (education hurts, but it's necessary).

I know such a tac is confrontational, and may be considered as not High Road by some, but I disagree.

 

[Darkness]

Just going to slip a pic in here. S&W internals have been virtually the same for a long time, with some minor changes here and there. One thing that has not changed is the hammerblock safety. Here is a cut-away of a 586 which shows it.

 

[Old Fuff]

With the exception of those models that have an enclosed hammer, (the 638 has the hammer shrouded but not enclosed) there are not one but two mechanical safeties. They are mechanical, as opposed to manual, because the lockwork itself works the safeties with no human imput being necessary.

The first is a lug on the rebound slide that retracts the hammer back into the frame after a primer is ignited. After the hammer is retracted, or "rebounds" it is blocked by the rebound slide so that it can't move forward until the trigger is fully pulled.

A second, and independent hammer block moves up between the frame and hammer face and blocks the hammer just under the firing pin.

The system works on all models, regardless if the firing pin is hammer or frame mounted.

You can go to www.smith-wesson.com and download a .pdf copy of the factory's model 638 instruction sheet/manual that explains the safety features, and includes an exploded view drawing that shows the second safety. The first one is part of the hammer, and its there although you and/or your wife may not be able to see it.

You can tell your wife that should she buy it, a model 638 will be completely safe in her purse, even if she makes a mistake and puts it there while the hammer is cocked - and that is highly unlikely.

Send that sales clerk back to some used car dealer...

 

[lanternlad1]

Woodsmoke,

I shop at that Gander MTN regularly, and I think I know who you mean. Ignore him. If you want the question answered properly, I suggest you ask the gunsmith who works there. HE knows his stuff. If there IS such a problem, he most probably would be the one to know. (And the gunsmith himself has told me to ignore most of the counter help. There are three or four old-timers in the whole store who know what they're talking about - the rest are yappers.)

And +1 on Tomball Pawn. The best gunstore around, period.

 

[Ultima-Ratio]

his friend shot himself in the butt while holstering his Glock

There has been a recall of certain Uncle Mike and Fobus holsters for just this exact problem.....btw