Buddy finally got his Springfield Victory AR set up. Not good.

[Varminterror]

I will look into that for sure. Going to read Cleckner's book too.

I can’t recall if it was Jim See or Frank Galli to which I first heard this attributed, but for precision rifle competition and field tactical matches, we practice the “11 second drill.” This principle is to start standing, port arms, mag in, bolt back, and then have your first shot down range from any obstacle or prone within 11 seconds. This drill helps develop fast acquisition, NPOA, and positional stability behind the rifle.

An example of how fast precision fire can be laid out, I’ve seen the PRS Speed Skills standardized stage ran with a bolt gun in under 25 seconds: start 10 yards behind a firing line, run up to your rifle, go prone, shoot 3 targets in the order 1, 2, 3, 3, 2, 1, hit to advance, where target 2 is 25 yards from #1, and #3 is 50yrds farther beyond #2, fired on 12” squares at 400 yards. Run, go prone, address the rifle, engage the 6 shots panning left to right, then back right to left, all under 25 seconds. My fastest times on this stage are typically 38-45 seconds, depending how often I practice it.

Obviously, shooting 1/4-1/2moa groups is slower than shooting 1-3moa steel, but it doesn’t add THAT much time. More breaths taken while hanging out on target without firing is more prone to add wobble than to reduce it…

 

[Walkalong]

One thing that slows us up is trying to aim too fine, I'm as guilty as anyone of that. As VT posted, practice controlling recoil and not loosing the rifle contact when prone or semi prone, do this with the driving hand (whatever hand your not squeezing the trigger with), and the shoulder, which together drive the rifle, so don't lose grip of the steering wheel between shots, and try to control recoil enough to stay on target, which should be fairly easy with a .223. However the hand is helping to balance/hold the rifle, which is different prone than balanced on a bag on a post, use it and the shoulder to keep the cross hairs close to/on target with each shot. I'm fast prone, I need to get faster off of barricades.

 

[MR WICK]

You guys are awesome.

Thank you all so much for your knowledge and patience.

 

[MR WICK]

One thing that slows us up is trying to aim too fine, I'm as guilty as anyone of that. As VT posted, practice controlling recoil and not loosing the rifle contact when prone or semi prone, do this with the driving hand (whatever hand your not squeezing the trigger with), and the shoulder, which together drive the rifle, so don't lose grip of the steering wheel between shots, and try to control recoil enough to stay on target, which should be fairly easy with a .223. However the hand is helping to balance/hold the rifle, which is different prone than balanced on a bag on a post, use it and the shoulder to keep the cross hairs close to/on target with each shot. I'm fast prone, I need to get faster off of barricades.

You and VARMINTERROR just saved me a ton of money. It was all in my shoulder. I wasn't applying much pressure and the rifle was jumping.

I fixed that problem and I've got TIGHT groups at 300 yards and it's not pinching my breast against the bench anymore. Target re-acquiration is mere fractions of a second.

You guys rock.

 

[Varminterror]

 

[MR WICK]

Awesome video.

You rock man. Thanks for all the help.

 

[doubleh]

Garbage in, garbage out. Buy quality ammo with good bullets.

Agreed and here is an example. My #1 grandson was shooting an AR his father-in-law assembled from various parts he had sitting around AND using some rather cheap factory ammo. 4 1/2" was the best he could do at 100 yards. He took a break and I shot my one lonely AR with handloads off the same rest he was using and got slightly less than an inch. He asked if he could try some of my loads and of course I let him. His groups dropped to about 1 1/2" with my handloads. A little load tweaking and he might get close to 1" with that rifle.

 

[Grumpy_old_Fart]

I haven't seen many deer wait 11 seconds to get shot...

Although I have waited 40 minutes for one show enough horn and body to verify a quality shot.

 

[Varminterror]

I haven't seen many deer wait 11 seconds to get shot...

Although I have waited 40 minutes for one show enough horn and body to verify a quality shot.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

The drill mentioned isn’t sitting in a deer stand with the rifle at the ready, waiting for a buck to walk out into view at 30yrds. It’s meant for practicing economy of movement to start from standing with an open action, then assume position on some obstacle, or dive prone, and deliver precision fire commonly to 600-800 yards. Guys well practiced at it are able to run 10yrds to a firing line, dive prone and address their rifle, and deliver 6 aimed shots at 3 targets, in 25-30 seconds at 400yrds, with a smaller relative target than a deer’s vitals at 200. I’ve taken hundreds of deer in over 2 dozen US states as well, and I’m embarrassed every time some hunter tries to lay this crap on the keyboard. This imaginary mystique around deer hunting is the lamest game on the internet.

I’d be happy to race you onto target any time you would like.

 

[3850remhep]

Winchester 223, 55 grain, FMJ.

This first two pictures were his best at 150 yards.

The third picture is my CZ at 300 yards.

What should the rifle be able to do?

Winchester 55gr FMJ is CRAP, I would only use in CQB under 50 yards, preferably under 25 yards.

My Springfield Armory Saint Victor 16" 1:8" twist barrel was excellent after the swap to the Geissele SSA-E trigger, Federal 62 grain Green Tip works really well to 200 yards, Federal 69gr Match is even better.

Leupold Mark AR 6 - 18 X 40, OK with Atlas Bipod, excellent off of rest with rear bag.

You wouldn't feed a Ferrari regular gas, only premium.

 

[Grumpy_old_Fart]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

The drill mentioned isn’t sitting in a deer stand with the rifle at the ready, waiting for a buck to walk out into view at 30yrds. It’s meant for practicing economy of movement to start from standing with an open action, then assume position on some obstacle, or dive prone, and deliver precision fire commonly to 600-800 yards. Guys well practiced at it are able to run 10yrds to a firing line, dive prone and address their rifle, and deliver 6 aimed shots at 3 targets, in 25-30 seconds at 400yrds, with a smaller relative target than a deer’s vitals at 200. I’ve taken hundreds of deer in over 2 dozen US states as well, and I’m embarrassed every time some hunter tries to lay this crap on the keyboard. This imaginary mystique around deer hunting is the lamest game on the internet.

I’d be happy to race you onto target any time you would like.

Wow..

I'm 52. I don't run. If you run, you will only die tired.
I have done my time putting bullets downrange in critical moments. At this point in my life I'm not competing for sore elbows.

I Hunt with a single shot. There's only one bullet in my rifle. So I better make it count. I don't run at deer. It spooks them. Move slow, natural, then take the shot.

The deer I waited 40 minutes for was at 350 yards in smallish Douglas fir on a hillside. It only took one shot. He was grazing.

Shot another at 20 yards. He walked up into view as I waited for my brother. One shot, didn't spook him.

I've killed my share. But I see no need to kill myself doing it. If you want to call it a drill, you can practice it.

If you're talking about combat, 11 seconds is too long. Return fire, move, establish a base of fire, fields of fire, communicate with your team, move on and take the objective. Or, if ambushed or outnumbered, return fire and withdraw.
I don't have to do that anymore, i hope.

 

[C-grunt]

How the hell did a thread about accuracy problems with a rifle make anyone think we were talking about deer hunting?

 

[Grumpy_old_Fart]

Or competition shooting strategy?

 

[C-grunt]

Or competition shooting strategy?

No one said anything about competition strategy. He was explaining drills that can help with mounting the rifle, natural point of aim, recoil control, and not spending overly long amounts of time aiming.