Budget-friendly, Improvised weapons/tools/devices
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AlfonsDeWolf
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M-cameron....and a 3' dandelion plucker!
MillCreek
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In regards to the cane, I am a fan of the Cold Steel polypropylene canes: I have several of the blackthorn and African canes that come in handy when my fractured hip pains me. They are inexpensive and almost indestructible.
We're not referring to disposable plastic water bottles. Those have a compressible air gap at the top instead of carefully being filled to the top without such a gap. They're also the cheapest disposable thin plastic the manufacturer can use.
What is a legitimate comparison is between a full Nalgene or similar bottle and a full single wall steel or aluminum water bottle. Fill each to the top with the same weight of water and you will see similar results due to the incompressibility of the water in the container. Thin walled disposable plastic will deform too much and shouldn't be used unless that's all you happen to have. We're talking about carrying a water bottle with the intent of using it defensively so we're only considering those purchased for the application.
About screwdrivers. Screwdrivers can't be carried innocently and have been classified as burglary tools when there's no explicable reason for having it on your person. They've also been used as disposable mugging weapons too much for any officer to give you a pass on them.
What is a legitimate comparison is between a full Nalgene or similar bottle and a full single wall steel or aluminum water bottle. Fill each to the top with the same weight of water and you will see similar results due to the incompressibility of the water in the container. Thin walled disposable plastic will deform too much and shouldn't be used unless that's all you happen to have. We're talking about carrying a water bottle with the intent of using it defensively so we're only considering those purchased for the application.
About screwdrivers. Screwdrivers can't be carried innocently and have been classified as burglary tools when there's no explicable reason for having it on your person. They've also been used as disposable mugging weapons too much for any officer to give you a pass on them.
TimboKhan
Member
Oddly on topic, but The Backwoodsman magazine just had an article about slungshots (which I assume is the correct term), which involve things like weighted monkey fists and the like. I read the article and immediately thought about advice John gave some years ago about a water bottle in a bag being a good weapon.
And, it is. a Nalgene bottle is in my opinion better, but even a smaller water bottle in a plastic bag can transmit enough force to hurt. My idiot best friend and I tested that theory by whacking each other with a regular bottle of water in a walmart bag. Had we been going full speed, I think we would have done serious injury, up to and including potentially breaking bones. Shockingly effective.
Frankly, I cannot think of a better weapon when it comes to discreet, 100% legal and defensible. Anything else would require a specific set of circumstances or would scream "weapon", and it is something I now carry all the time with the exception that I use one of the many nalgene-type bottles we have laying around the house. It is also something that I have suggested a number of times to co-workers. We haven't had an incident at my work, but it is definitely always a possibility given the clientele and some of the services we provide, and this is something that my largely female co-workers understand and follow through with. I never told John this, but there are probably 10-15 ladies at my work that habitually carry water bottles specifically for defense (and hydration) as a direct result of that advice.
As a side note, I also have been struck in the head by a full bottle of water that was being thrown across a truck bed. Just a casual toss to a friend who said to another friend "toss me a bottle of water". There was nothing malicious or aggressive about it. It just happened to be a bad throw and I just happened to stand up at the same time and it caught me squarely in the back of the head. I can tell you that I think that impact came as close to knocking me out as I have ever come without actually getting knocked out. This was at a range on a shooting day, and to tell the truth I thought I had gotten shot via accidental discharge.
And, it is. a Nalgene bottle is in my opinion better, but even a smaller water bottle in a plastic bag can transmit enough force to hurt. My idiot best friend and I tested that theory by whacking each other with a regular bottle of water in a walmart bag. Had we been going full speed, I think we would have done serious injury, up to and including potentially breaking bones. Shockingly effective.
Frankly, I cannot think of a better weapon when it comes to discreet, 100% legal and defensible. Anything else would require a specific set of circumstances or would scream "weapon", and it is something I now carry all the time with the exception that I use one of the many nalgene-type bottles we have laying around the house. It is also something that I have suggested a number of times to co-workers. We haven't had an incident at my work, but it is definitely always a possibility given the clientele and some of the services we provide, and this is something that my largely female co-workers understand and follow through with. I never told John this, but there are probably 10-15 ladies at my work that habitually carry water bottles specifically for defense (and hydration) as a direct result of that advice.
As a side note, I also have been struck in the head by a full bottle of water that was being thrown across a truck bed. Just a casual toss to a friend who said to another friend "toss me a bottle of water". There was nothing malicious or aggressive about it. It just happened to be a bad throw and I just happened to stand up at the same time and it caught me squarely in the back of the head. I can tell you that I think that impact came as close to knocking me out as I have ever come without actually getting knocked out. This was at a range on a shooting day, and to tell the truth I thought I had gotten shot via accidental discharge.
OP
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Bottle wars is the new caliber war, lol. Love it.
Timbo,
What is it about the Nalgene that makes it superior (for defensive purposes) to a similarly sized steel bottle with a handle, in your opinion? I don't think anyone is disputing that a full bottle of water upside the melon won't hurt, but I can't see how a plastic, handle-less bottle is going to be better for some of the things I laid out in post #13.
What am I missing here?
Timbo,
What is it about the Nalgene that makes it superior (for defensive purposes) to a similarly sized steel bottle with a handle, in your opinion? I don't think anyone is disputing that a full bottle of water upside the melon won't hurt, but I can't see how a plastic, handle-less bottle is going to be better for some of the things I laid out in post #13.
What am I missing here?
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The Head (brand), "Arthur Ashe" model was one of the first composite "sandwich" design racquets produced. I don't think there was a wood model. Though, certainly not your point.
I used one once....a rental, and after wood racquets, it was a revolution.
Do you understand that water is incompressible and that when it fills a sufficiently rigid container without airspace that it effectively renders that similar to a solid of the same weight and shape? Metal won't expand absorbing some of the energy of impact, but neither will the Nalge and some similar bottles. The flimsy over the counter disposables will being too flexible. A full metal container with no air space will be better than a Nalge with no airspace, but not sufficiently so to make enough difference to matter.
Joshboyfutre
Member
I have to go with the pen. Some of the new tactical pens that are made of aircraft aluminum with glass Some of the new tactical pens that are made of aircraft aluminum with glass breaker on the end and a sharp writing point. In the right hands it can be as deadly as any other conventional weapon.
Tennis was never my sport but no one where I lived had a metal racquet when the Army called my name in 1966. What I remember of tennis was wood up until then. What I remember as Ashe model was a heavier, narrower head only slightly oval and maybe 10" across. Sheriff was a half hour away and fire dept down the street from us was emergency services. This was a 56 Chevy sedan, an ambulance, a tanker truck for brush fires and a fire truck courtesy Oakland Army base. As I remember, and this was over 50 years ago, one miscreant had a smashed instep and dislocated kneecap, the other got a throat shot and general beat around the kidneys when he went down. Location was El Sobrante and The Improvement Club, held a meeting over it. I was there, Dad was club president.
blindhari
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TimboKhan
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well, HSO pretty much hit the nail on the head, but I prefer them because Nalgene bottles are cheap and ubiquitous. Plus, my water gets hotter quicker in metal jugs unless they are insulated, which adds even more expense.
MDI_Weapon
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Put a pencil in a small vacuum chamber with enough slightly thinned fiberglass resin or epoxy to submerge it. Pull all of the air out of the chamber (which will also remove all of the air from the wooden pencil and replace it with resin or epoxy). Slowly release the vacuum, retrieve the pencil, hang it up and let it dry/cure for a couple of days. Once the epoxy fully hardens, sharpen it in a standard pencil sharpener.
Looks like a pencil, penetrates like a steel spike. The cost to make one is next to nothing and no one will pay any attention to it as it is just a pencil. It will still write as well.
Looks like a pencil, penetrates like a steel spike. The cost to make one is next to nothing and no one will pay any attention to it as it is just a pencil. It will still write as well.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Where do you get a small vacuum chamber for next to nothing??
And how do you get the epoxy out of it once it's in it??
rc
And how do you get the epoxy out of it once it's in it??
rc
AlfonsDeWolf
Member
About the water in a bottle idea......a story....many years ago I was with a large group of people around a campfire, I happened to be laying on my front propped up on my elbows. A friend gently tossed me a can of beer. Its slight wetness helped it bank off my hand, palm facing up, and slammed me in the nose! It created a nasty cut on my nose (scar still with me) and knocked me pretty hard.
That idea very much rings true to me. Thanks much for the idea.
That idea very much rings true to me. Thanks much for the idea.
OP
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You brought up something really important with this concept, Alfons.
Condensation and sweat will almost assuredly come into play. Unless you have Shaq-sized hands, a wet 32 oz bottle is going to be slippery as an eel. Sure, any bottle can be dropped in a bag and swung like a flail; but what if you don't have a bag? Well, if you have a bottle with a built in handle you can slip some paracord through it. No paracord? How about a belt? A scarf?
What about when the bottle is empty? Well, invert this type of bottle like so -
Now you can grip the bottle around the (smaller diameter) neck and rain down blows with a hammer fist. Grab a watermelon/pumpkin/honeydew and test it out. Even if one could manage to do the same with a 32 oz Nalgene, the design of the bottle above is going to cause more damage.
That's what this thread is ultimately about. To help potentially introduce new tools and concepts, but more importantly, to help put us in the "Weapon of Opportunity" mindset,
Condensation and sweat will almost assuredly come into play. Unless you have Shaq-sized hands, a wet 32 oz bottle is going to be slippery as an eel. Sure, any bottle can be dropped in a bag and swung like a flail; but what if you don't have a bag? Well, if you have a bottle with a built in handle you can slip some paracord through it. No paracord? How about a belt? A scarf?
What about when the bottle is empty? Well, invert this type of bottle like so -
Now you can grip the bottle around the (smaller diameter) neck and rain down blows with a hammer fist. Grab a watermelon/pumpkin/honeydew and test it out. Even if one could manage to do the same with a 32 oz Nalgene, the design of the bottle above is going to cause more damage.
That's what this thread is ultimately about. To help potentially introduce new tools and concepts, but more importantly, to help put us in the "Weapon of Opportunity" mindset,
TimboKhan
Member
I think the problem that you are having with the nalgene bottle is sort of not a problem. Plastic nalgene bottles do have a handle, at least as useful as that of the lid. That little plastic connector between rim and lid is sturdy enough for use in this regard.
At one time I put money into the Executive Sharpy - all stainless and looked good. You use it like a kubotan. Once the refills became hard to find I concluded the standard one, gray with black cap, was sufficient for the job. It's cheap, it's everywhere, unlike some of the carpenter grade sharpies. I've used those and they usually have deficiencies, first being available, second, price, and third, the clips on the caps can fail. Not up to standard.
A belt with heavy metal buckle. One model I have is from Academy, in nylon webbing and a cast buckle with plating to complement. It's not hard to get off quickly and when wrapped around the grip with about 12" of buckle extended it's plenty good as a sap. Longer doesn't work as it becomes an aid to grapple with you and somewhat difficult to disengage.
In the UK the skin heads have resorted to steel toed boots. If you can find them comfortable enough there are styles available that do appear casual.
Expedient objects at hand - which means knowing your environment. Any one pound object at hand can be a weapon, including metal cans of fuel additives, a ball joint, oil filter, etc., to name a few in my work environment. When I worked at a desk there were paperweights, a deck clock or radio, stapler (as a blunt weapon,) rulers, etc. Things attached to 110VAC power aren't as readily usable but if the time comes the cord could be handier.
Above all is a knowledge of striking points and the practice to achieve a disabling blow. Training in that area is available, and it's conducted by avoiding all the rules of a fair fight. You aren't into it with the rules of boxing or any measure of self restraint once the decision is made - same as shooting someone. If you perceive it as a lethal threat, then respond in kind, as nothing less has been shown to provide sufficient answer to the need. This means you don't waste strikes on major body groups or overpowering your opponent - weapons are meant to be used at critical points where major disabling injuries can be inflicted that hamper the opponents ability to respond. He may be completely able to crush you if he could get his hands on you, but completely unable to see or locate you long enough as you to continue your effort to place him prone on the ground with no remorse.
The expedient tools help cause loss of vision first and foremost. Like shooting, they have to see you to hit you. Damage to their hands is also a good primary target. You are looking to strategically keep them from acting out their intent - if half blinded and one handed, it's working. It's not about meeting brute force with force. Attempting to engage in a major grappling session isn't the goal. Keeping that from happening is.
It's really not whatever weapon you have at hand, it's your ability to ruin their ability any way you can.
A belt with heavy metal buckle. One model I have is from Academy, in nylon webbing and a cast buckle with plating to complement. It's not hard to get off quickly and when wrapped around the grip with about 12" of buckle extended it's plenty good as a sap. Longer doesn't work as it becomes an aid to grapple with you and somewhat difficult to disengage.
In the UK the skin heads have resorted to steel toed boots. If you can find them comfortable enough there are styles available that do appear casual.
Expedient objects at hand - which means knowing your environment. Any one pound object at hand can be a weapon, including metal cans of fuel additives, a ball joint, oil filter, etc., to name a few in my work environment. When I worked at a desk there were paperweights, a deck clock or radio, stapler (as a blunt weapon,) rulers, etc. Things attached to 110VAC power aren't as readily usable but if the time comes the cord could be handier.
Above all is a knowledge of striking points and the practice to achieve a disabling blow. Training in that area is available, and it's conducted by avoiding all the rules of a fair fight. You aren't into it with the rules of boxing or any measure of self restraint once the decision is made - same as shooting someone. If you perceive it as a lethal threat, then respond in kind, as nothing less has been shown to provide sufficient answer to the need. This means you don't waste strikes on major body groups or overpowering your opponent - weapons are meant to be used at critical points where major disabling injuries can be inflicted that hamper the opponents ability to respond. He may be completely able to crush you if he could get his hands on you, but completely unable to see or locate you long enough as you to continue your effort to place him prone on the ground with no remorse.
The expedient tools help cause loss of vision first and foremost. Like shooting, they have to see you to hit you. Damage to their hands is also a good primary target. You are looking to strategically keep them from acting out their intent - if half blinded and one handed, it's working. It's not about meeting brute force with force. Attempting to engage in a major grappling session isn't the goal. Keeping that from happening is.
It's really not whatever weapon you have at hand, it's your ability to ruin their ability any way you can.
kBob
Member
The Spousal Unit worked on a gun free campus and frequently stayed late. She used to carry a 2 cell C cell Maglight for seeing her way through things.
She would grip it with the head in her hand and thumb and forefinger around the body of the flashlight making it difficult to drop or loose the device in full round house swing.
When she was a kid a therapist suggested she get a wooden tennis racket and beat the mattress of her bed when she became frustrated and enraged over an issue. I was amazed she never broke the thing and tried it myself. I was impressed with how much force could be delivered and how well the racket stood up to such use. For a good bit that tennis racket was a vital pat of her home defense plan.....before she met a gun and blade freak and lived happily ever after.
The first weekend after 9/11 that the airlines were in full swing we traveled to Arizona from Florida with an infant. We carried in my carry on (though you can not now) canned formula which I had dropped into GI wool cushioned socks "to prevent them from rattling around." I got the idea from the old improvised/silent weapons class in the Army where the sock was filled to a baseball sized lump and knotted over it when filled with wet sand or a rock of such size And the fact that I used to carry C ration cans in such socks in the barrel of my M67 revoilless rifle barrel at the beginning of long marches. I had little doubt that it was possible the can would burst on having a good solid impact......but I doubted that target would need another swing.
I did get stopped one evening with a flathead and Philips head screw drivers and a cresent wrench in my left hip pocket. When I explained I was on my way to visit a girl buddy that owned an MG the Deputy sent me on my way.
Still rather like my Tractor Supply stock cane for daily use.
-kBob
She would grip it with the head in her hand and thumb and forefinger around the body of the flashlight making it difficult to drop or loose the device in full round house swing.
When she was a kid a therapist suggested she get a wooden tennis racket and beat the mattress of her bed when she became frustrated and enraged over an issue. I was amazed she never broke the thing and tried it myself. I was impressed with how much force could be delivered and how well the racket stood up to such use. For a good bit that tennis racket was a vital pat of her home defense plan.....before she met a gun and blade freak and lived happily ever after.
The first weekend after 9/11 that the airlines were in full swing we traveled to Arizona from Florida with an infant. We carried in my carry on (though you can not now) canned formula which I had dropped into GI wool cushioned socks "to prevent them from rattling around." I got the idea from the old improvised/silent weapons class in the Army where the sock was filled to a baseball sized lump and knotted over it when filled with wet sand or a rock of such size And the fact that I used to carry C ration cans in such socks in the barrel of my M67 revoilless rifle barrel at the beginning of long marches. I had little doubt that it was possible the can would burst on having a good solid impact......but I doubted that target would need another swing.
I did get stopped one evening with a flathead and Philips head screw drivers and a cresent wrench in my left hip pocket. When I explained I was on my way to visit a girl buddy that owned an MG the Deputy sent me on my way.
Still rather like my Tractor Supply stock cane for daily use.
-kBob
I actually am talking about a cheap disposable unopened plastic water bottle.
I have been unable to strike a hard object with enough force to rupture one.
Again, I am perfectly willing to see these tested with pictures or video.
John
I have been unable to strike a hard object with enough force to rupture one.
Again, I am perfectly willing to see these tested with pictures or video.
John
TimboKhan
Member
Well, as I mentioned before, I have tested it at about half speed. It works, lol.
I could see where potentially the lid would pop off under enough pressure, I am less concerned about the bottle itself developing a rupture.
I could see where potentially the lid would pop off under enough pressure, I am less concerned about the bottle itself developing a rupture.
OP
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Not sure if you tried the Super Sharpie. It might be equally available to you in your location. I actually prefer it most of the time to the SS version because of the larger diameter. I find I can get a really strong grip on it.
http://www.amazon.com/Sharpie-33001-Permanent-Marker-12-Pack/dp/B002764UJW
MDI_Weapon
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Mason jar with a matching lid. Drilled a hole through the top and put on a 1/4" nipple so I could attach it to a pump. I was surprised at how much pressure it could take. I have used the same setup to stabilize wooden knife scales. It really doesn't take much of a vacuum to pull the air out. You will see air bubbles coming out of the wood quickly at first and then more slowly until no more bubbles form.
Instead of epoxy or Fiberglass resin, wood hardener like Pentacryl wood stabilizer will work. If you use epoxy, it actually isn't that hard to clean out of the jar - wipe it out with acetone or wait until it dries and use a sharp edge to scrape it out. Speaking of acetone, if you are in a really DIY mood, you can melt plexiglas or lexan in acetone and use that in place of epoxy, resin or wood stabilizer but it takes a little trial and error to get it to the right thickness.
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