New OC tool idea - opinions appreciated

[OC-Trainer]

Guys and Gals,

I've been working on something that I think is going big in the OC/self-defense sector, and maybe even beyond. We (this will be a collaborative effort) are now at the point of deciding how to market this "device" and we could use some help. Let me explain.*

We've created a "new" self-defense tool that also has another legitimate use (think flashlight doubling as a kubotan type of crossover). Although I can't reveal that other use just yet, I assure you that it has standalone value, but it's also multifunctional.

Here are our questions:

Do you think we should market this strictly as a self-defense tool?
or
Do you think we should market this as both as an "X" and as a self-defense tool?

*I apologize in advance that I must be a little cryptic right now. Until this thing hits the market (early next year) I have to be very careful, due to the fact that others in the industry are watching this thread. As you can imagine competition is pretty fierce in the little cottage industry of defense sprays.

Any input is greatly appreciated and I look forward to your opinions. Thanks in advance!

OCT

 

[308win]

Is the OC you will offer at worse as good as the best already available? Is there a ready market for the 'x' and are there established products? Is the dual use your only differentiator?

 

[OC-Trainer]

Thanks for the feedback, 308. Great questions.
-yes
-We hope. No
-No

We wanted to address some of the weaknesses with the traditional OC spray. Things like dealing with ambush style attacks, overcoming combat stress- when we become "all thumbs" under duress- things of that nature. This will address those things. Even though I was in the defense spray industry, I'm very much into the study of the anatomy of attacks/assaults and how we react to them. Our hope is that this product will help "fix" some of those shortcomings.

I don't want to hype it up too much, I mean, it's not a cure for world hunger or anything, but it is/will be the only one of its kind on the market.

Thanks again for your thoughts...

OCT

 

[OC-Trainer]

I'm hoping to get some more feedback and opinions on this from THR members. We've created something that could potentially be the cane/pen/flashlight of the OC world. Something that could easily be carried in restrictive environments like the tools mentioned above.

Our dilemma is this: Market its potential self-defense purpose(s), and it shows up on the radar. Market it solely for its utilitarian purpose and its "other" purposes go unnoticed to the masses. We are trying to figure out a way around this if at all possible.

Here is your chance to have input in a brand new product going to market. Any/all feedback is appreciated! Thanks in advance...

OCT

 

[glistam]

It's very hard to give an honest take with so little information, but I'm leaning more towards marketing it for it's utilitarian use. So much of weapon carry laws are based on advertising and appearances rather than empirically proven threats to safety. Case in point: Switchblades and nunchuku.

 

[OC-Trainer]

Thanks, glistam. I always appreciate your input into this thread.

Agreed. I wish I was at liberty to disclose more info, but I'm hamstrung right now. I/we are also leaning toward the utilitarian approach. I like the way Unbreakable Umbrella is marketed. I suppose we could do something similar; then perhaps have some sort of guerrilla marketing for the other uses on various forums. Much like the self-defense hacks pertaining to mini Maglite, Sharpies, etc. Although the companies behind those brands don't advertise them as such, I'm sure they're aren't complaining about the extra sales they get because of it.

OCT

 

[riceboy72]

Thanks again to OC Trainer for your gracious sharing of information with everyone. You have shed so much light on the OC market and I appreciate your willingness to help.

You definitely have my curiosity piqued with this "new product", and I, too, have to side on the utilitarian use angle. A can of pepper spray is straight up spray, and it's use is limited to just being a defense spray. While I tend to shy away from "it dices/it slices/it washes your car" gadgets, if you present a multi use "tool" that incorporates spray, and not just one small spurt or mist, then I'm all ears. But I will be honest and say in the past, I did not even give the ASP Defender a second look because it just seemed like an answer to a question that wasn't asked, but that's just me.

Quick question: If you had to choose between two brands -- Sabre Red and DT -- both in the 1.3% configuration, which would you prefer, and why? Or are they basically the exact same thing?

And I keep coming across conflicting information regarding "shelf life" of a spray, and it's usually by the manufacturer so I take it with a grain of salt. Is there a somewhat conclusive answer you know of based upon industry standard and your knowledge and experience? I don't want to buy new cans every two to three years.

Thank you again, and I hope you have a Merry Christmas.

 

[Sox]

OCT,

Can't wait to see it!! My thoughts are it would market better to the self defense market, as a weapon.

I think once it is used as a weapon it is a weapon. Just like in some jurisdictions one were to carry a "fish billy." Well if you beat the guy with a fish billy, it will be a "truncheon" or "cudgel" if front of your honor. So once employed, the cat is out of the bag.

Your goal as a viable company is to make money. If you want to sell more of these I would think it would sell best to like minded folks.

Dave

 

[OC-Trainer]

Great stuff, Dave. Thanks!

I'm definitely torn on this. I've spent hours today (before football), reading everything I can get my hands on regarding this subject.

On one hand, as a student of everything self-defense and personal safety-for basically my entire life-I want to market it straight up. Yet on the other hand, having seen "behind the curtain" of how it works in today's world with anything even remotely considered a weapon, I want to avoid the red tape. The logistics involved with excepting credit cards for something as simple a pepper spray, for example, is utterly ridiculous. I can't tell you how many arguments I've had with legal department because of the ambiguity of the "Terms of Service" (TOS) where they never list pepper spray specifically, but consider it a weapon. Maddening to say the least. That's why I wanted to throw it out to everyone here at THR and to those who are interested in less-than-lethals.

Really appreciate your take and we will absolutely look at every angle.

Thanks again for your input!

OCT

 

[DeepSouth]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=794337

I'll admit I'm not marketing guy, as I've never marketed anything other than a yard sale, and it turned out poorly. But is their some reason why you can't do both?

Kind of like advertise your pepper spray water bottle in backpacker magazine as the best water bottle ever, except with bear spray. And advertise in Guns and Ammo as the best pepper spray in the world in a discrete, and useful water bottle.

 

[hso]

You market as many avenues you think will produce sales profitable compared to the marketing costs. You won't get sales if you don't if the demographics on target audience are far enough apart they're won't be cross communication. So, if you can market to A and B and they wouldn't have shared any important overlap then it only becomes a question of the return on the investment for marketing to B.

 

[OC-Trainer]

Thank you, hso. Excellent tips and I appreciate your take.

 

[OC-Trainer]

I like where you are going with that DeepSouth. We should be able to do both, no problem. The cross-over appeal seems to be there, for sure. Thanks!

 

[JShirley]

Like glistam, I'm going to suggest you market the utilitarian use, to ensure your product's ability to be carried into secure environments.

Breath spray and lime juice are two products I can think of, off the top of my head, that would be nasty in the eyes but that aren't inherently weapons. Of course, neither of these is as inherently effective against bare skin as OC products.

My maternal grandfather's second wife squirted lemon juice in a would-be rapist's eyes, many years ago, from one of those plastic lemons.

 

[OC-Trainer]

Thank you, JShirley. I really appreciate your input.

There's just something about not having to disarm that really appeals to me, and to most of us I'm sure. Not in the mall ninja kind of way, of course, but in a fundamental, give yourself the best chance when push comes to shove, kind of way. Simple, effective, innocuous items that get the job done when called upon. The cane, the umbrella, the steel pen- all very capable self-defense tools in the right hands; all capable of being carried virtually anywhere. There simple wasn't a solution for that in the world of "temporary sight removers"...until now.

Wow, incredibly resourceful to use the lemon juice in that situation. Brilliant. I mentioned lemon juice and vinegar in the Pepper Spray thread. The lemon shaped/juice bottles are very commonly carried in Great Britain. It's perfect logically carry too...it is for teatime.

 

[JShirley]

Just "John", please.

I think we agree. I frequently suggest 16-20 oz plastic water bottles and/or small flashlights for their defensive potential and daily utility. I have also carried a lanyard with my keys on one end, and a heavy carabiner around the world, through some very tight security checkpoints. Before that, and sometimes along with it, I always wore a heavy belt, and had a sturdy lock on my carry-on bag.

 

[hso]

Yep, a heavy shielded lock makes for a nasty improvised weapon and I carry a CamelBak bottle almost everywhere. The only thing I ever lost to security was a Timberline pen, but Kuwaiti security was taking Bic and Cross pens as well so there wasn't much to do about carrying any pen at all. John and I are of the same mind that defensive tools should be easily seen as common items so the more your product looks like some day to day item the better.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

If this is a tire pressure gage/dog batton... why, I'll sue!

Really though, I'm intrigued!

I would be certain to view it critically in that either use augments the other in justifying it as a replacement for single use tools which might otherwise be co-carried.

After that, integration of the two tools should never present as a compromise of either, or else, consumers like myself just return to the one-each scenario.

I think about that ridiculous "tool" making the TV rounds in time for Christmas... the one that's a crescent wrench, screw driver, knife, etc... and doesn't do any of them well but at the same time, misses the convenience or Leatherman-like tools.



Todd.

 

[OC-Trainer]

Just "John", please.

I think we agree. I frequently suggest 16-20 oz plastic water bottles and/or small flashlights for their defensive potential and daily utility. I have also carried a lanyard with my keys on one end, and a heavy carabiner around the world, through some very tight security checkpoints. Before that, and sometimes along with it, I always wore a heavy belt, and had a sturdy lock on my carry-on bag.

I concur, John. I've carried many of the items you mentioned with great success.

a heavy shielded lock makes for a nasty improvised weapon

Agreed. A Bandana and a padlock... very formidable.

 

[OC-Trainer]

Really though, I'm intrigued!

I would be certain to view it critically in that either use augments the other in justifying it as a replacement for single use tools which might otherwise be co-carried.

After that, integration of the two tools should never present as a compromise of either, or else, consumers like myself just return to the one-each scenario.

I think about that ridiculous "tool" making the TV rounds in time for Christmas... the one that's a crescent wrench, screw driver, knife, etc... and doesn't do any of them well but at the same time, misses the convenience or Leatherman-like tools.



Todd.

Todd,

Thanks for your input. I totally agree with "jack of all trades, master of none" type of product. Very few pull it of successfully (Leatherman?). Fully aware of those pitfalls, we've been testing and tweeking this thing for months. Making sure we keep it dead simple to use, and rock solid through every type of condition/situation. I've been carrying it for awhile now, putting it through the paces.

To be clear, this new tool will not be replacing OC spray on the duty belt or bear spray in the bush, nor is it supposed to. This is strictly designed for up close and personal work. Which is how virtually every civilian use of defense spray occurs-at arms length. The problem, of course, with defense spray (and with every weapon/tool) is that, if you can't access it quickly and efficiently under duress; it won't do you much good. This will address the common shortfalls of these devices.

Thanks again, for your take.

OCT

Edit: As I'm typing this I look down and see 3 guests viewing the thread, and I'm thinking Sabre, Fox, MACE...lol.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Market it differently in different areas. I've seen several Amazon stores that offer the same product described in slightly different ways.

If it's a multi use defensive tool with a mundane primary use (like a tactical pen), market it as such. I used to buy Cross pens, knowing that their construction made them a viable defensive tool if pressed into service as such. Cross, as far as I know, never marketed their writing instruments as a defensive tool.

Flashlights are a slightly different story. A lot of lights are marketed with the "tactical" moniker, with crenelated lens crowns, that can double as an impact tool. The Streamlight on my hip has such a feature. I don't recall it was marketed as such from the venue I purchased it. Other sellers/ distributors specifically point out this feature.

Marketing is an interesting field. What is your primary demographic target? Tactifools? Police or Military? Preppers? Soccer moms? Who do you think will be most likely to purchase your product based on the features, and its uses, mundane or otherwise?

If it's going to compete with a similar established product on the market, how is that products advertised? Mimic what they do, but go a step further. Convince your target demographic that your new product is better in some way than the established product. Contact some popular YouTube channels that review similar stuff, see if they will review it for you. A lot of these guys easily get a quarter million hits, to well over a million views for their gear reviews. If even 1% take an interest in the product, and only 1% of those interested actually purchased it, you'd still sell a ton.

 

[hso]

Be sure to get your prototype in front of focus groups that are in your markets and listen to what they have to say. YOU may and your PARTNERS may and WE may think it is a great new thing at a price we'd be happy to pay, but THEY may have a problem with one aspect that you need to know about and fix.

 

[OC-Trainer]

Market it differently in different areas. I've seen several Amazon stores that offer the same product described in slightly different ways.

If it's a multi use defensive tool with a mundane primary use (like a tactical pen), market it as such. I used to buy Cross pens, knowing that their construction made them a viable defensive tool if pressed into service as such. Cross, as far as I know, never marketed their writing instruments as a defensive tool.

Flashlights are a slightly different story. A lot of lights are marketed with the "tactical" moniker, with crenelated lens crowns, that can double as an impact tool. The Streamlight on my hip has such a feature. I don't recall it was marketed as such from the venue I purchased it. Other sellers/ distributors specifically point out this feature.

Marketing is an interesting field. What is your primary demographic target? Tactifools? Police or Military? Preppers? Soccer moms? Who do you think will be most likely to purchase your product based on the features, and its uses, mundane or otherwise?

If it's going to compete with a similar established product on the market, how is that products advertised? Mimic what they do, but go a step further. Convince your target demographic that your new product is better in some way than the established product. Contact some popular YouTube channels that review similar stuff, see if they will review it for you. A lot of these guys easily get a quarter million hits, to well over a million views for their gear reviews. If even 1% take an interest in the product, and only 1% of those interested actually purchased it, you'd still sell a ton.

Thank you very much for you input. That is very interesting about Amazon. I haven't come across anything like that, and It is worth looking into.

If memory serves, the crenelated bezels where marketed as "window breakers." That type of bezel is a no-no on a plane from what I've heard.

Marketing is definitely an interesting field. I find the psychology involved with it particularly fascinating. You just never know what's going to catch on sometimes...regarding are target demo...this is a bit tricky.

The majority of non-LE pepper spray is sold to women 18-50. Something in the neighborhood of 80% of civilian pepper spray sales are the keychain type, and they are sold to women. Unfortunately, these become "purse charms" and pink talismans; The worst type of pepper spray, in my opinion. The biggest challenge is going to be the re-education of that demo. Our product is not cute, or pretty, and won't accessorize a Coach bag. [mini rant] To be perfectly honest, it will be almost impossible to covert that thinking on these devices. Sadly, all the major defense spray companies care about is selling as many keychain sprays as possible. If they really, truly cared about creating the most effective tool, then they would not put millions of dollars into trash products like stun guns, but I digress. We are most concerned with putting out the most effective device for the real world. I guess that is the best way to sum it up.

Great tip about the Youtube channels, too. Appreciate your post...

OCT

 

[OC-Trainer]

Be sure to get your prototype in front of focus groups that are in your markets and listen to what they have to say. YOU may and your PARTNERS may and WE may think it is a great new thing at a price we'd be happy to pay, but THEY may have a problem with one aspect that you need to know about and fix.

Great points, hso.

We've been doing some focus group stuff with various martial arts schools in my area. It is definitely going to be paradigm shift for the masses, but those like-minded folks, like hear at THR, and in those into the defense and personal protection culture "get it" like no other.

 

[USAF_Vet]

Took me reading your reply to realize the OC in your handle is about defensive spray, not open carry. Nevertheless, you're right about the current target of OC sprays being targeted toward women. Law enforcement and corrections would be the other major target demographic.

Is that something you're looking to change? Most men, myself included, fall into the delusion that OC isn't manly, which is why we tend to carry guns, knives, impact weapons, and learn martial arts for defense. But I'm willing to change my perspective on it. I've looked at different sprays, but never gone further than just casual browsing. Unfortunately, my state requires a certain recipe for OC and restricts anything more powerful for law enforcement use only. Kind of a bummer, there. But, if even the low powered stuff we have in Michigan was incorporated into another object, mundane or more 'tactical' oriented, that actually would increase my own personal interest. A reloadable OC dispenser integrated into a high lumen flashlight or something else I carry daily... Well you may be on to something. I don't know what your idea is, but I'm looking forward to learning more.