Buffalo Bore Heavy .38 spl?

[The_Shootist]

Buffalo Bore makes a .38 sp LSWCHP +P 158 gr round they market as getting about 1000 fps/muzzle from 2" J Frame revolver.

Anybody tried any of this stuff for accuracy? Controllability? I don't shoot a lot of .38 spl out of my SP 101 but what I carry/shoot in it is of the FBI Load variety. So I ordered a box of this stuff to try it out and see how well my Ruger handles it.

At $ 20 a box (for 20!) its a little pricey to burn off 100 evey week in a range session. But if it proves to be accurate in my Ruger then maybe I won't have to - as well as it being a "beefed up" FBI load.

 

[Wildalaska]

Waste of money, get some 110 JHPs or 125 +P and call it good.

Wildallhypebig$$Alaska

 

[Josey]

I'm agreeing with WildnoBSAlaska.

 

[Gordon]

Don't agree with the above, Buy Remington new version of .38+P LHP which ' only' does 810fps out of 1 7/8 Barrell, but is barely controllable and has a HUGE hollow cavity in very soft lead with a full caliber square shoulder. The New Speer 135 grain gold dot is more contollable yet and does expand -for sure! Me , I like the new/old 158 +p LHP in ANY .38spl!!!!!

 

[Jim March]

I think that BB 158 has potential in SOME guns, particularly the SP101.

It's bordering on 357 performance levels, in fact it probably exceeds the energy of some of the "reduced power" 125 "magnum" loads like the Proload "Tactical Lite".

I haven't heard any reports on it's accuracy or independent confirmation of the speeds. On the latter subject, we know their claimed speeds for the 357s have been independently tested as accurate, and the company in general reports velocity honestly (above average honesty on that point).

I don't think it's the right answer for Scandium/Aluminum guns, and it shouldn't be used in "+P marginal" guns like my old Charter Arms Undercover, earlier S&Ws, etc. This is my opinion ONLY but...look, this stuff is hot, OK? It's for steel-frame 38s of recent vintage.

Right now I rely on Winchester/Remington type 158+P lead hollowpoints for home defense. I'll try out some 135 Gold Dots as soon as I can score some. I strongly suspect the latter will prove to be the best answer in most lightweight 38s and in many cases 357s.

 

[The_Shootist]

Buffalo Bore .38?

One of the reasons it caught my eye was I was "recovering" by surfing the net on Sunday after running 100 rds of Speer Gold Dot 158 gr .357's through my SP 101. I still have the bruises on the web of my hand below the thumb

Now the Gold Dot has about 1250 fps in 530 ft/lbs of energy at the muzzle, and I thought the Buffalo Bore may be an easier to control, reasonably potent (vis a vis a .357 round) round thats accurate (my Ruger likes 158 gr rounds for accuracy - isn't that the weight they use to regulate the sights with?)

Either that or try some .357 Golden Sabres for more controllability.

 

[tbeb]

If I had an SP101 with a 2"-3" barrel I would load it with .357 magnum Winchester 110 gr. JHP. (The .38 special+P+ Winchester 110 gr. JHP was a little slower and it worked good.)

 

[jc2]

The Buffalo Bore will probably offer something the the lighter weight .38 Special rounds and 110-grain .357 Magnum rounds do not--consistently adequate penetration. All of the +P 125/135 .38 Special rounds fail to deliver adequate penetration. The 110-grain .357 Magnums also fall short in penetration (and in fact, as proven a less than satisfactory performer since day one).

 

[paul105]

"I don't think it's the right answer for Scandium/Aluminum guns, and it shouldn't be used in "+P marginal" guns like my old Charter Arms Undercover, earlier S&Ws, etc. This is my opinion ONLY but...look, this stuff is hot, OK? It's for steel-frame 38s of recent vintage"

Jim, why not the Scandium guns (340/360)?

TIA

Paul

 

[Jim March]

Because lead is very slick. When combined with these recoil levels, I'd be REAL concerned about "bullet pulling" - the tendency for the last few shots in a cylinder to get "yanked", lengthening the rounds and tieing up the gun.

We've seen reports of such happening with jacketed rounds in the Scandiums and a few reports in Titanium guns (heavier than SC). If *any* rounds will do it, it'll be those BB 158s.

Feel free to test for yourself, but I'll betcha they'll yank.

Speer is claiming that the 135 Gold Dot 38+P as they load it is set up to resist "yanking" even in the lightest 10oz-class S&W 38 snubbies. That's their claim anyways, and they're a pretty reputable bunch. I'd make sure myself of course but I'll bet this will prove to be the best answer in the lightest alloy/SC snubs.

 

[c_yeager]

So basically the only guns that are really appropriate for this "heavy .38" are guns that are likely already chambered in .357 anyways. The only way i can see a use for this is if you are restriced to .38 due to your job. Of course, if your in that position i doubt that buying this stuff will fly with the boss anyways.

 

[Jim March]

No, there's a number of steel 38s that can eat 38+Ps and would be appropriate for these monster 158s. Say, a relatively recent vintage Model 10 with a 2.5" barrel...these would be perfect.

They're also an interesting alternative for small 357s like the SP101, S&W60 or similar as they "bridge the gap" in power level between 38+P and 357.

 

[jc2]

I think they might be just the ticket for recent manufacture steel Chiefs Specials, Bodyguards, Centennials, etc. Since I wouldn't have scandium or titanium handgun, it's no big deal for me. In addition to "bullet pulling" as Jim mentioned, I'd be real leery shooting these in any aluminum framed handgun due to the recoil (it's probably ferocious), and the wear/tear on the aluminum frame. For me, the snubs demand more practice to remain proficient in their use than any other handgun (and practice with your carry load or similar--not wadcutters).

I could see lots of people developing a heckuva flinch with these rounds in a aluminum-framed revolver--and I could see a lot of aluminum frames stretched to the point of potential failure very quickly. Frankly, if I wasn't so happy with 145-grain Silvertips in my M65LS, this would be the round I'd look at. It should be just for the doctor ordered for just about any recent manufacture .38 Special K-frame (10, 64, etc.).

 

[c_yeager]

No, there's a number of steel 38s that can eat 38+Ps and would be appropriate for these monster 158s. Say, a relatively recent vintage Model 10 with a 2.5" barrel...these would be perfect.

You know as soon as I made that post i realised that this load would be perfect in Model 10s and 64s which happen to be two of my favorite revolvers. So i guess it does make some sense at least for a limited market.

 

[Jim March]

Sure it's a limited market...but it's a BIG limited market!

As I've said: I suspect they're too much for my own vintage Charter Undercover. I won't be shooting *any*, at least not in that gun.

 

[Gordon]

Reallity Check: When deciding what load to use in ANY gun set up two half scale shilo targets at 7 yds. In three secods or less from a ready position put 2 round on each target in the K zone. The biggest load you can always do this is the load to carry in your people defense gun. Personally I max out with 158grain Lead hollow points in any .38/.357 under 26oz. In a 14oz gun I am MUCH quicker with 148grain wadcutters . The 135grain (and 129grain) new high tech loads barely do OK in the airweights. Forget .357 unless packing for bear! Funny I COULD actually shoot the old 110grain Winchester +p+ "treasurey " load OK in this drill! Maybe that would be a good .357 load (which is what it really is).

 

[Jim March]

Many police departments in the days when 357 revolvers ruled the roost would buy "38+P+" fodder for one reason only: so they could tell a courtroom post-shooting that they didn't use "eeeevil high-powered 357 Magnums" but rather "mild 38 specials".

+P+ became a code for "it's basically 357 but we're not naming that so as to help keep your department politically correct".

Some were so hot that they'd blow up some 38 guns in one shot.

The whole thing was really a fraud, on the courts for starters .

My advice: shoot 38+P+ in genuine 357 guns, unless you've got an "abnormally strong 38" on your hands. (IE: Ruger has made recent-model SP101s and GP100s in 38Spl for foreign markets where magnums are civilian-banned...these can take 357 power levels.)

 

[twoblink]

When I was picking a revolver, I bought an SP101 in 357Mag so I wouldn't have to worry about most of this +P +Q +Z +T non-sense..

357Mag 125 grainer JHP. ALL DONE...

 

[Gordon]

Twoblink: set up (hang up) a couple 1/2 size shilos at 7 yards or full size at 15 yards a foot or two apart. From a gun down ready fire two rounds into K zone of each target. If you can't do it in under three seconds try a .38spl load until you can! I think you could do it regularly with your Ruger with the 125grain .357 load IF you can stick out a couple thousand practice rounds!

 

[jc2]

think you could do it regularly with your Ruger with the 125grain .357 load IF you can stick out a couple thousand practice rounds!

Naw, carpal tunnel syndrome would get him first!

To be really realistic, he'd have to do it low light, in a enclosed space and without hearing protection. My guess is he'd be rolling on the floor blind and holding his ears by the second shot.

Those full bore .357 Magnum 125-grain SJHPs are one of those things that look better on paper than in actual use.

 

[The_Shootist]

Buffalo Bore Heavy .38 spl

Ok, I shot off a box of this today at the range and in my SP 101 it was STOUT!!

It was accurate if I gritted my teeth and concentrated, but really felt like I was shooting a .357 round anyway. Think I might stick with the regular FBI load for now. Its easier on the hands and pocketbook to practice with

No surprise, but I could land the FBI round more accurately and quickly than the Buffalo Bore round

 

[Jim March]

You know, these may have a role as being a low-end-of-357-power load that weighs 158grains and therefore might regulate better to point of aim than say, the "357 tactical lite" Proload 125 or the Remington Golden Saber somewhat-mellow 357 of about the same power level.

A lot of fixed-sight snubs regulate well with 158s.

There are going to be any number of strong 38spl guns out there in which this load will be a Godsend. I would NOT recommend it for a 19oz or lighter 38spl! I would never use these in my 17oz Charter Undercover even if I was sure it was strong enough (which I'm not). But for the guy with, say, an old S&W N-Frame 38spl, or one of the Ruger Security/Service guns in 38spl instead of 357, or several others, these are a TOP choice.

 

[jc2]

I could also see it as the load of choice for three-inch (or even four-inch) K-frames--lots of folks still stoke the three-inch Models 13/65 with the old FBI load, and the BB 158-grain should be somewhat better (if for nothing else, the gas-check--the R-P FBI loads lead like nobody's business).