Buffalo Hunting Rifle

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Reap23

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I get to go on a period style buffalo hunt with my grandpa, dad and younger brother this November. :D While it is not the same as an elk hunt or something more challenging, it gives me two great opportunities. One is I get to spend some time with my family and the other is I get an excuse to buy a new rifle! :evil:
I am going back and forth between a C. Sharps Arms .45-90 and a Winchester lever action in .45-90 or .45-70. I want a rifle that I can use for other hunts as well, but I think in reality the rifle will probably become a safe queen when we get back from the hunt. Opinions on what to get? Other suggestions I'm not thinking of at the moment? I have to stay period, so that means lever action or rolling block. I will need to order whatever I choose by the end of next week so I can get it in time for the hunt, so let's hear those ideas!
 
A Pedrossi wont set you back quite so much if it turns into a safe queen. Either will a Uberti 1885. Good luck
 
first off, congrats on the wonderful little excursion you get to partake in. I am envious. :)


Secondly...Sharps...falling block. :)
Most rolling blocks are going to be Remington, Remington Hepburns and the like.

http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/custom_shop/RollingBlock_rifles.asp

It would seem that I have found a Remington that I would be proud to own. :)

Now the Pedersoli and Uberti are excellent rifles...the Pedersoli's are offering everything from 45-70 up to 50-90.

For a standard buffalo rifle, though...45-70 would be plenty. The falling block or rolling block will be quick enough to hammer out 3-5 good shots on a Buff...and yes...he will need that much killin'.

MTCW
D
 
db tanker beat me to it: Sharps = falling block (not rolling block)
But whatever rifle you decide on, I'd sure consider having it chambered for the 45-70. The 45-90 Sharps is a fine cartridge, but it won't kill your buffalo any deader nor any faster than the good old 45-70 Government. Besides, the 45-90 is pretty much a "build your own ammo" proposition. And if you're not already aware of what 45-90 brass costs, you're in for a shock.
In the long run, I think you'd find a lot more uses for a 45-70 than a 45-90. Believe me, I'd like to kick my own butt for having my Shilou Sharps chambered for the 45-110 instead of the 45-70.:banghead:
 
Another way altogether to go is a Marlin 1895 cowboy.It will run you something less than $700 which isn't chump change but is cheep compared to the Sharps. 9 shots of 45/70 and you can load it up at a higher level than the Sharps guns. Different kind of gun altogether,just won't cut it if you have your heart set on a single shot,but is still almost the same time period.
The Cowboy is a full size octagon barrel lever gun,none of that guide gun foolishness! (J/K, I know some love the guide gun ,I perfer the full size real deal. )
 
If you have to have it by next week, you are going to have to buy something off the shelf.
I recently ordered a rifle (in person) from Shiloh and they told me they probably arn't going to start building it for about a year and a half. While I was there I went across the street to C.Sharps. They had quite a few rifles in stock already built. I would call and see what they have that you can buy right now. After visiting there I drove down to Cody Wyoming and visited the Ballard Rifle Company. They also have a similar backlog to Shiloh.
 
That's interesting!

Another way altogether to go is a Marlin 1895 cowboy.It will run you something less than $700 which isn't chump change but is cheep compared to the Sharps. 9 shots of 45/70 and you can load it up at a higher level than the Sharps guns.
Click to expand...

My Speer Reloading Manual No. 13 has three different loading levels for .45-70, ranging from the original Trapdoor Springfields to Siamese Mauser/Ruger #1 pressures. Right in the middle at the second loading level is where they list Marlin Model 1895 leverguns, along with modern Sharps 1874 reproductions. Do you suppose Speer knows something we don't?

I've run some of those levergun loads in my new Sharps reproduction, and while they're not as comfortable as my normal blackpowder 535gr loads, they were tolerable and plenty safe in the gun, no problems extracting or blown primers, etc.

Now there's no way on Gawd's green earth I'll run the loads I crafted for my Ruger #1 (405gr/2100fps) in my Sharps, but I have no problems with loads intended for leverguns.

444, btw, welcome to the dark side! I'm going to assume while you are waiting for your Shiloh Sharps you are working on getting an adequate supply of good black powder (Swiss or at a minimum Goex Cartridge), SPG lube, Postell or Schmittzer bullets of 500gr or heavier, Starline brass, a good drop tube, powder compression die, a blow tube, a wad punch, a portable decapper, ceramic tumbling media, cross sticks, and so forth. You'll be going with me to Forsyth, Montana for the annual Quigley shoot once you get your rifle and a load it likes... :D

sharps1874bench.gif
 
thanks everyone

I really appreciate all the input and corrections to a newbie. Sharps = falling block... got it. Gewehr, my dad was out at the Quigly Shoot this year and had a tremendous time. You may have seen him... he was wearing a cowboy hat. :rolleyes:
I saw the pictures he took... wow! That is some interesting shooting. He has 2 C. Sharps Arms rifles with the Badger barrels and keeps telling me to buy one (because of their stock) and then we'd get it a few weeks before the hunt. I also think he like spending my money for me. ;) The hunt is November 4-11 and I am really looking forward to it. Dad also has the reloading equipment and dies for a 70 and 110 and based on your opinions I will probably do a .45-70.

Red$tinger - my computer won't follow the link, but if it is the rifle I am thinking you planned on showing me... it doesn't exactly follow in the "time period" theme they try to keep. I'd like to get one anyway though. :D

Gewehr - What caliber did you use at the shoot? If I decide to go out next year, is .45-70 the best option for me now?
 
The wait for my rifle is so long, I haven't really bought anything for it at this point. I do already have a pretty significant amount of blackpowder. While I was there I bought a bunch of books on blackpowder cartridge reloading and it seems like voodoo to me. I need to find a mentor.
Since I bought this rifle I have run into quite a few local guys who mentioned that they own one also, although I don't know how many are really serious about handloading for it.
This rifle was very expensive. I ended up paying more for this rifle than I did for my machine gun: :eek: I decided that if I was going to spec out a rifle to be built and then wait over a year to get it, I was going to get exactly what I wanted. I drove up there so I could look at all the options and decide what I wanted. A little back ground: when I was a kid my parents bought me a book for Christmas. It was something like, The Best of Guns and Ammo magazine from the 1950s or something like that. It had an article about the buffalo hunters and Sharps rifles. It was the first place I ever heard about guys like Billy Dixon. I decided right then and there that I had to have one of these rifles. They had pictures in there of a bunch of original rifles and I decided I wanted one of those exact rifles in the pictures. So, this rifle I ordered isn't going to be exactly mainstream: it has what they call a "16 pound barrel". Huge barrel. And, it is in .45-110. I am not really interested in saving money on brass or in carrying this rifle around in the field. I am buying something that I have been dreaming about on and off for 30 years or so.
 
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Reap23, my 1874 Sharps Business Rifle is a .45-70.

I did that to economize on components with my Ruger #1S, Siamese Mauser, and current .45-70 AK-47/Saiga project.

I've got an 1873 Rolling Block action that was also going to become a .45-70, but lately I've considered the .38-55 or .40-65 for that platform, driving something like the NASA bullets. Don't get me wrong, I've fired the .45-90, .45-100, .45-110, and .45-120, and while they definitely have more ass, you end up paying for it on the recoil end over time, or you add enough wads to download that you end up with something like a .45-70.

444's seriously heavy barrel Shiloh Sharps has enough mass to offset the .45-110's recoil. My octagon barrel Business Rifle is a heavy SOB to carry around, so I can only imagine what his will be like when they finish it.

Regarding black powder handloads, some folks will indeed run smokeless or even factory .45-70 loads in their Sharps rifles, but they're definitely in the minority. When you get up there into the .45-90/100/110/120 category, it's already a handloading proposition, and owners of those chamberings are pushing almost 100% black powder loads, man for man. I have seen .45-90 and .45-110 smokeless loads listed using Accurate XMP-5744, but that's the exception, rather than the rule. Black powder has a very low standard velocity deviation from round to round, and rule of thumb is the explosion of a compressed load of BP, as opposed to the progressive burn and pressure curve of smokeless, is needed to properly obturate the soft bullets (usually 1/20 to 1/30 alloy) into the rifling properly for best accuracy. BP barrels longer than 28" give you more velocity and a longer sight radius, but you have to guarantee there's enough lube on the bullet to not run out before the bullet leaves the barrel. I've done that accidentally with my 32" barrel Sharps, and it was no fun cleaning up the leading in that last couple of inches.

As for the price and waiting time to have your creation done to your specs, I know how that goes, but couldn't wait and limited myself to a budget of $1400 for my Italian Sharps. However, I got bitten by the Sharps bug many years ago when a fellow range officer took receipt of his own Shiloh Sharps in .45-120. He had waited something like 3 years from ordering it, and plunked down I *believe* just over $5K for the privilege. He went with the Hartford collar, pewter forend tip, spirit level front sight, exhibition walnut, French Grey finish, shotgun butt, etc. Here he is on the first day at the range, wearing my USMC shooting jacket, just in case:

attachment.php


He was cutting cloverleafs at 100 yards by the end of the day.

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I own a Shiloh Sharps #1 in 45-100 (2.6”), two Ballard High-Walls (45-90, 40-70), and a Ballard Low-Wall (.22).

In each case the wait was over a year, but I got exactly what I wanted to include exhibition grade wood and custom LOPs. IMHO, They’re all worth the cash, and worth the wait.

You really need to think about what you’re going to do with the rifle. IF it’s just this hunt, then look hard at the Pedersoli, their great guns for the money and won’t break the bank (for a BPCR). You’ll also get your money back if you decide to sell it down the line. A 45-70 is a great cartridge to learn the BP loading & bullet casting game on. The larger calibers can be a PITA to sort out initially.

I started out with a C-Sharps 75 in 45-70 which I learned to load BP on and shot in local CAS matches and an occasional silhouette matches. I then ordered the 45-100 for buff matches and the 800-1000 matches. Later when I started shooting more silhouette I drifted towards the High-Walls with their faster lock time, camming actions, and self cocking hammer. When pressed for time on a relay I can get off faster shots with the High-Wall, which allows me to wait out conditions longer. I’ve been able to run conditions, 5 shots on a bank, while blow-tubing in a little under 2 minutes. No way I could have done it with a 74.

444,

I’ve got a friend that has a 16lb Shiloh, very cool gun, little felt recoil. Definitely a conversation piece when folks see that big hunk of barrel!

Chuck
 
I got the Sporter model with:
.45-110 cartridge
30" 16lb bull barrel
No rear dovetail
Spirit Level Front sight
Long Range Soule rear sight
Extra Fancy wood with AAA finish and checkering
Pistol Grip with Schnabble
Pewter Tip
Traditional Steel Buttplate
Double set triggers
Curved Trigger Plate
Cheekpiece with accent line
Bone and Charcoal Pack-Hardened Finish on the receiver
Brass Escutcheons

and.....just for GP I got it dovetailed for a scope. I figured that if I ever decided to get a scope I wouldn't have to send the rifle back to be dovetailed then. Now I am thinking that I probably ought to get the scope so it isn't discontinued when I decide I want one five years from now.

For some reason I have always been facinated with rifles that have great big barrels on them. I have no idea why. On the way home from ordering this rifle I spent a couple days in Cody Wyoming mainly visiting the Buffalo Bill Museum, in particular the firearms museum. True to form, I was drawn to everything with a big heavy barrel. One of the coolest things I saw there was a couple 1917 rifles with a huge, heavy barrel. This barrel was as big around as the one I ordered on this Sharps and probably as long.
 
444,

Except for that “Truck Axel” of a barrel you’ve got our tastes run similar:

#1 Sporter 45-100
32” #1 Polished Barrel, No midrange sight dovetail
Hartford Collar
MVA Spirit Level Windguage Front Sight
MVA Long Range Soule rear
Exhibition Grade wood, AAA finish, Checkering
Cheekpiece with accent Line
Traditional Steel Buttplate
Pewter Fore-end tip
DSTs
Brass Escutcheons
Fire Blued Screws

Have you bought any bullet moulds yet? IF not do yourself a favor and check out Paul Jones:

http://www.pauljonesmoulds.com/

I’ve got a couple of his moulds for my BPCRs and they are top notch. Expensive, but they cast round bullets and are a joy to use.

Chuck
 
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Shiloh Sharps all the way. Try Bill Goodman at
http://www.shiloh-ballard.com/shiloh_sharps_rifles_for_sale.htm
he may have something in stock or you can order from Shiloh through him and cut a year off the wait for $100 over Shiloh's price. He has a whole bunch of orders going at a time and you can make whatever changes you need. I ordered through him and got my Hartford model .45-70, 30 inch heavy octagon barrel, semi-fancy wood, rifle steel butt plate and had Ron Heilman sights shipped to Shiloh and installed. I am very happy!

Shiloh1874_0332.gif
 
Red$tinger - my computer won't follow the link, but if it is the rifle I am thinking you planned on showing me... it doesn't exactly follow in the "time period" theme they try to keep. I'd like to get one anyway though.
Click to expand...

A fingerthump upside your head if you think it's the Kalashnikov. :fire: :D
 
As a young man (13-14) I was trying like the dickens to get my rifle 'on target' at some bowling pins at 300 yards. I had placed a bullseye target out there nearby to help me judge the wind etc.

One berm away was a life sized paper deer target with big holes in it and a cheerful looking old gent (maybe 50ish) with a pipe taping up the holes.

What are you using?

45-70 the old gent replied.

Shook my head knowingly, thinking he had some scoped safari rifle back there. Nope. Wow. Iron sights. 6 inch groups at 300 yards in the kill zone.

He was using a Ruger #1 Sporter. Very pretty rifle.

I have access to several 45-70's these days... if it was me I'd take the half magazine model 1895 Marlin Century Limited just for grins.

Here it is with "Sarge" another sort of plains game felled by an old american caliber (.30-06).
 

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Dr. Rob, that would also be an excellent choice for buffalo.

Either the North American Bison kind, or as Rich Lucibella discovered, the African Water Buffalo kind.

I got that angle covered, but it just doesn't have the 19th Century look and feel, hence my not suggesting it for the author of the thread. ;)

rugerbenchsmall.gif
 
Well it's not every day I get to show off a rifle that one day might be mine. ;)

(The half octagon half round barrel is elegant, but the steel crescent buttplate is a shoulder killer.)

Dad also has an 1895 Cowboy and a Guide Gun. He likes Marlins.

I was just pointing out that iron sights were the order of the day back then and the Ruger is certainly capable of great accuracy.

I've had a couple of friends order high end Quigley Sharps in the past and become disillusioned at a very long wait... it seems production is finally catching up with demand for the Sharps style rifles. they certainly are pretty.

On the H&R rifles... while they are certainly 'budget minded' I've fired thouands of rounds through their Ultra Varminters and they are quite accurate.
 
Reap23

I can't help you with better suggestions regarding your choice of rifles than others have provided previously. You indicate this unit will be used after the buff hunt for other enterprises. If you go for something in 45/70 you’ll have a lot more options in terms of ammo and applications than some of the alternatives. Probably a better choice for that reason.

I reload for the NEF 45/70 standard rifle (not the Classic). The NEF will shoot all of the downloaded factory stuff but it will also handle Marlin power levels. I can stand loads a little over 1/2 way up the tree to the top end Marlin lever gun loads. More stout concoctions give me the personal impression I was having my a** kicked. My shoulder never fails to verify that suspicion the next day in colors most wouldn’t associated with anything living. YMMV. I have a handful of “top enders” I could never bring myself to fire that I’m saving for UFOs.

I could have gotten a more capable rifle in the Ruger that I was considering but the NEF turned out to be plenty for me personally.

I’m 100% in agreement with the concept of use enough gun but this adventure taught me I could buy more gun than I could comfortably shoot under certain circumstances. Uncomfortable for me = closet rifle.

Best of luck with the hunt
S-
 
suprised no one mentioned the cartridge that likely killed more buffalo than any other...

yes some of us ( & I'm not that old:cool: ) still shoot the 50-70 Gov. got an old Martini tropical chambered in 50-70 ( the original buffalo gun...;) )
 

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