Building a Garand?

[280PLUS]

I have the opportunity to purchase a top quality Garand target barrel for relative cheap. I would like to build a rifle around it that I can use in Garand matches. How would YOU build this dream rifle? What manufacturer's components would you include? Which would you stay away from? Any tricks up your sleeve?

Thanks!

 

[Dave P]

Don't forget the rules on keeping the rifle "stock" for the official matches. CMP has the rules online.

 

[HM2PAC]

I would start with a CMP Garand and go from there. You'll find most of the parts are still serviceable. The gas cylinder is one change I would make for a competition rifle. Badger Ordnance makes a nice one out of stainless steel forgings, and yes it can be blued/parked. NM sights are a must.

The most important thing is to have a gunsmith that knows what they are doing. For a match rifle, you will want to have the receiver properly bedded.

There is a veritable laundry list of things to do to Garands. I suggest reading a lot before making any changes, or committing any money.

This is a link that shows the changes that mine went through form start to finish. http://www.dietrichgunsmithy.com/m1garand.htm

It shoots great.

 

[Ian Sean]

First off...why is the barrel "relatively cheap"? Was it already installed on a rifle and removed?

When you buy a new Garand barrel (or most any barrel), they are "short chambered" meaning a finish chamber cutter is used after the new barrel is installed to properly headspace it to your bolt.

If the barrel was removed off of a rifle, the chamber has already been cut...and it MIGHT not headspace or not headspace tight. No gaurantee but something to consider for a match rifle.

On to a build....if you want to build a Garand form scratch, slowly putting the parts together, it will be much more costly than say buying one.

Personally I would buy one that is shot out and for as cheap as possible, intall a NEW barrel, have the gas cylinder and op rod checked/replaced if needed and replace any other well worn parts. Top it off with a new set of springs and you would be good to go. Nothing wrong with a mix-master (all different manufacturer parts) Garand...my best shooting Garand is a mix-master! If you want to do the matches though I would recommend putting out the money for match sights.

Some of the more expensive/specialized tools you would need to do a complete build yourself.

1. Receiver wrench.
2. Barrel Vise.
3. Chamber Reamer.
4. .30-06 headspace gauges.
5. Gas cylinder inspection gauge.
6. Garand Build manual...I recommend the AGI one, very thorough.

 

[280PLUS]

Thanks all. I like the buy one and change the barrel idea. Makes sense. Can I use a bull barrel on this? Is it legal? Is it even done? I have a choice of steels, which one would be best?

I'm totally, and I mean totally, lucky enough to have been long time friends with the new owner of Wilson Arms (not Wilson Combat) in Branford, CT. Makers of fine rifle barrels. He knows I'm a shooter and last night told me if I wanted a barrel I'd get "the family discount". So I figure I should build a Garand. I know very little about them except that having one is probably not the worst thing you could do. I have a few guns, no Garand though. So you see my dilemma.

I know I don't want Garand thumb but will probably get it anyways.

Plus, if I was going to get into rifle competition I think I'd want to shoot the Garand matches. I already shoot NRA pistol.

I'm going to imagine the smartest thing for me to do is find someone local who does a good job with them and bring them the barrel and rifle and let them set it up. I wouldn't want to be fouling it up. I'm more of a shooter than a tinkerer and not afraid to admit I don't really know what I'm doing all the time, so I like to let the experts set my stuff up.

I took a tour of the factory and met all the guys. I looked down quite a few finished barrels, they all looked so beautiful it almost brought a tear to my eye... LOL !

 

[GRIZ22]

For a match rifle, you will want to have the receiver properly bedded.


I don't think this is allowed in Garand matches. Of course if you buy a new stock and the receiver happens to fit very well that would be okay.

Can I use a bull barrel on this? Is it legal?

Not legal in Garand matches. I suggest you go the CMP website and download the rules. Then you can determine what kind of competition you want to build the rifle for and what is allowed. Bull barrels and bedding are not allowed in Garand matches but may be on a Garand used in high power. You got to know what you're going to build it for and reading the rules would be the first step.

Buying a Garand and building it to what you want is a lot cheaper than buying a receiver and parts.

You might also want to go to someone like:

http://garandguy.com/issuegrade.htm

It might be cheaper to supply him the barrel and he builds up the rest of the gun. Is it Criterion or Kreiger barrel? Tony's super colossul stupendous grade is $1395-1750 depending on what you want.

When you consider the price of all the parts and the cost of the tools plus knowing that any mistakes made during assembly aren't going to cost you more,and you can be guaranteed it will work this may be the way to go.

 

[Sunray]

Garand thumb is operator failure. Ball of thumb on top of clip facing forward with the rest of your fingers along the outside. Push down, thump op handle.
"...the Garand matches..." J.C. Garand matches require an as issued rifle. As mentioned, all the rules are on the CMP's site.

 

[280PLUS]

Thanks again, I'll review the rules and go from there. Thanks for the link on the garand guy!

 

[nicholst55]

First off, you must decide if you want a Service Rifle (legal for Service Rifle - M1/M14/M1A/AR-15/M16 matches), or a rifle legal for John C. Garand matches. They are very different animals.

A rifle legal for JCG matches must be 'as-issued,' with no NM parts or glass bedding. A Service Rifle can have NM sights, heavy (stainless steel) barrel, glass bedding, modified gas cylinder/unitized front end, etc.

Read the rules, decide what type of shooting you want to be able to do competitively, and go from there. FWIW, and no flame intended, there are better barrels available than Wilson. Krieger immediately comes to mind.

You could pretty much buy an M1 from the CMP and compete in JCG matches with it. Many go that route and have a new barrel installed, and use new wood from Boyd's. You can also spend a pocketful of money on a rifle from Orion 7 or someone and compete with it out of the box.

A service rifle set up by one of the top armorers/gunsmiths will set you back a good $2K, minimum. Cheaper on your receiver, but not by a great deal. The wait will likely be a year or more.

Good luck.

 

[HM2PAC]

A service rifle set up by one of the top armorers/gunsmiths will set you back a good $2K, minimum.

No Joke. Worth it, but no joke.

Definitely one of those "Cry once and laugh forever" items.

 

[280PLUS]

FWIW, and no flame intended, there are better barrels available than Wilson. Krieger immediately comes to mind.

None taken. The only apparent advantage a Wilson barrel offers me is knowing the owner and getting a deal on it. I definitely would prefer the "as issued" (I did go read the rules) category. Do they use the coat when shooting that? I'm kind of put off by the coat. $2k actually doesn't sound all that unreasonable for a good rifle but I WOULD have to save my pennies for a while.

His people claim their standard barrels will hold .5 MOA which means their target barrels should do better than that. Could you explain why a Krieger (for example) would be a better choice? Just cause I'm curious. Like I said, my forte is taking a good gun and making it put the bullets pretty much where I want them. When it comes to making a gun the best at doing that, I'm at a loss.

I DO know that his people are struggling to make him understand that taking shortcuts in the process to save time and money is NOT the way to go. I was truly impressed with the operation. There's some dedicated and experienced old guys there still making barrels like they always have. I got the impression they love what they do.

 

[HM2PAC]

Krieger barrels are "cut" rifling. The grooves are cut into the barrel. As compared to "buttoned", on which the rifling is pulled/pressed into position.

Many fine and accurate barrels are buttoned and are military contour. It really boils down to the shooters ability and whose Kool-Aid you want to drink.

Read about both. They all have their pro's and con's.

I drink Krieger HvyBbl Kool-Aid. Ohh Yeahhhh!

To make things even funner, start thinking about twist rate and bullet weight.....

 

[280PLUS]

I held a "button" in my hand. Interesting process (push button). To the best of my limited knowledge, or, from the way I understood it, the button actually does cut the grooves, all in one "push" though. It is a tool bit. They said they used the process because it is much faster than cutting the grooves individually. I asked, "Is the button only good for rifling one barrel?" Answer, "No, it's good for thousands." I can re-ask on the cut vs pressed though. That would be a good point to clarify.

Good info here. You can't beat THR for stuff like this.

Are you familiar with the method they use to true them up? I thought that was best of all.

How does Kreiger lap their barrels? From one end or from both ends?

I'll have to research twist rate vs bullet weight. I'm guessing there are standards. I'd have to ask them what rate they rifle to and is it variable. One thing I found interesting is that the cut on the button is what drives the twist as the barrel is rifled. What's considered to be a "good" rate for the kind of shooting I'm talking about? Originally he just wanted me to upgrade my Bushy with a better barrel. It's only over the last few days that I started thinking Garand.

I'll go read up on em!

 

[lionking]

great thread,great info.... my thanks from someone who has lately been pondering "just how accurate can a Garand be?" lol.

 

[Dienekes]

I wouldn't presume to pose as an expert on Garands, and mostly only shoot them for my own satisfaction (irons are getting harder, though). The advice on deciding exactly what it is you want to do is good. My understanding is that for the JCG matches "stock" means stock. No HB, no bedding.

I have CMP Criterions on my everyday Garand, my son's rifle, and a med. hvy. Barnett on another. All CMP rifles. Rebarrelled the first two myself. Have never built up a .308 but if I ever do another I will try that.

The CMP has a forum, and the Culver shooting pages at www.jouster.com are very good. There are some very good books. Hatcher's "Book of the Garand" is old but useful for general things. Kulek has a book on building up Garands, and Kuhnhausen's book is very detailed.

It's something of an adventure and a lot of fun to pursue. If you want to get a CMP rifle, shoot what comes on it for a while, put on a Wilson barrel, and shoot that a while too. By the time you get that one worn out you will know yourself and that rifle a lot better. Go slow and enjoy the ride.

 

[rodregier]

The claimed advantage to cut rifled barrels is that they hold their interior dimensions better when contoured compared to a button rifled barrel. Since a barrel for a Garand has to be contoured...