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Garand Group (The)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Reloadron, Jan 18, 2013.

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  1. saltydog452

    saltydog452 Member

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    Oiled stocks mentioned in a previous post

    I can't swear to this being the absolute truuff, but some Garands when they were 'turned in', supposedly had a gawd-awful bunch of oil poured down the bore. That just might lead to an oil soaked stock.

    salty
     
  2. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Member

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    Camp Perry is a few hours away from me if that. One of these days I should make the trip to the store.

    Years ago on a vacation trip we diverted in MA. to visit the part of the original Springfield Armory that is now a National Park. That was real enjoyable. Some serious history haunts those buildings.

    Ron
     
  3. Warp

    Warp Member

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    So I have an Ultimak M12 mount sitting on my workbench, right next to a Leupold 2.5x28 IER 'scout scope'. Medium height rings on the way.

    I think I might want a cheek/pad riser. Suggestions please?
     
  4. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    I've decided that I'm going to pull the trigger and go for a service grade special HRA and keep an eye out for a minty HRA stock with metal to turn it into a correct/collector grade rifle and pigeonhole it away after test firing to verify function.

    Also I'm going to request a service grade SA in WWII SN and USGI stock and shoot the heck out of whatever they end up sending me and keep it the way it is because it's current configuration is based on the long journey it's made through various rebuilds.

    Ideally I should pick up a third one, a CMP special grade and just shoot that since it's essentially new and keep the other two...one for it's WWII history and one for it's minty condition. I can begin to see why folks call this Garanditis. Hopefully in a few month's time, I'll actually have something to contribute.
     
  5. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

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    That is not really accurate. I have owned 4 Specials. While they were overall nice guns and only one suffered a functional problem (a significant reciever problem that required a replacement rifle), they were not essentially new.

    I had an op rod full of large rust flakes, another that is currently blossoming rust out from under the park, a worn op-rod tab, a handguard sheet metal piece with tabs broken off and others cracked, a badly bent and seriously distored lower band that the pin would fall right out of, 2 or 3 worn out rear sight pinions / pinion springs, a windage knob that puked its inards, and a receiver ear with significant wear on the rear sight serrations.

    I am not complaining. These are old rebuilt guns and CMP makes this kind of stuff right if you bring it to their attention. My point is just that if you think a Special will be pristine (as I think the CMP catalogue clamis) that may not be the case. These guns are likely to contain parts that have already seen considerable service.

    If you want the best chance to get fresh parts that shouldn't have issues, buy a second Service Grade Special.
     
  6. Col. Plink

    Col. Plink Member

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    CMP Aniston, AL Field Grade (hand select) Springfield

    mid-6,xxx,xxx Danish stock w/ disc indention in pistol grip butt, Springfield barrel.

    Looked almost unfired internally; excellent shooter.
    'Unorthodox' refinishing I guess; soaked in denatured alcohol, light sanding to take the finish but keep the character marks.
     

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  7. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    That is certainly surprising and thanks for the head's up. I was under the impression, based on their description and the asking price, that all the metal was refinished (and I'd assume inspected) so I'd have expected it to basically be a "new rifle" rather than "parts that may or may not function properly because of dimensional errors or rust, but look new"

    I'm guessing with my luck, by the time I recover the funds for a third Garand, the service grade specials will be gone. Better one than none though!
     
  8. RKirby

    RKirby Member

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    Great info in this thread!
    I'm also about ready to order a CMP Garand before they are all gone and had pretty much decided to go with the Special mainly due to it having a new Criterion barrel. I'm looking for a shooter that will be passed on to my son eventually, rather than a safe queen. But on the other hand, I don't want a gun built with substandard parts just to have a new barrel. I can re-barrel a service grade down the road if it becomes necessary.

    Do I need to reconsider my options?
     
  9. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Member

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    No, I don't think you need to reconsider your options. Overall here is my take / opinion.

    There are many ways to come by a M1 Garand. There are gun shops that occasionally have one, there are pawn shops, there are listings on Armslist, there is the guy with one in tow at the gun show and finally there is the CMP. For the very savvy Garand shopper several of the first options are quite doable, however, for the less than savvy shopper the CMP is the best option.

    So if I buy a M1 Garand through the CMP will it perform flawlessly the moment I shove an eight round EnBlock clip in it? The odds are very, very good that it will. However, to be fair about things take a good look at an M1 Garand's IPB (Illustrated Parts Breakdown) and note the number of moving critical parts for the rifle's normal operation. The M1 Garand is a fairly complex piece of machinery. The biggest thing the M1 buyer who buys a CMP rifle has going for them is they will likely get a good functioning rifle out of the box. With other sources the odds of getting a pig in a poke greatly increase, especially for the less than savvy buyer. Next and really important is if the rifle has a fault which though unlikely, the CMP is there for you backing up your rifle. The other options don't quite offer this. Support after the sale is very rare in the Garand market place. Not everyone selling Garands has the additional parts to support the rifles.

    The days of a $250 shooter Garand are long gone and buck for buck the CMP prices can't be beat. I constantly see Garands at gun shows selling for $900 to $1,000 that are not half the rifle as to form, fit and function a $650 CMP rifle is. Really sucks to pay $900 for a Garand at a show only to find later the muzzle and throat erosion is bad or the head space is bad. With a CMP rifle you know what you are getting.

    The only trick if we want to call it that is knowing what grade rifle we want from the CMP. One thing is for sure, regardless of the grade, you will get what you pay for and in the off chance you don't the CMP is right there for you. That counts quite a bit. Use this thread to ask questions to help you decide which grade is right for you.

    Just My Take...
    Ron
     
  10. RKirby

    RKirby Member

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    Thanks.

    That's the kind of information a "less than savvy" Garand buyer, like me, needs to read. This is the very reason I decided to get mine from the CMP rather than a private sale or gun show transaction. I just need to decide between the two "CMP Special" options. The new barrel may be the best option for me.
     
  11. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Member

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    Well if we take a look here at the Special Grade M1 Garand options let's see if this is what you are talking about:

    RM1SPECIAL
    RM1308SPECIAL
    Both of those rifles are M1 Garand Springfield Armory receivers. Both have a new aftermarket Criterion barrel. The only real difference being one is chambered in the original 30-06 chambering while the other is chambered in 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester. Both rifles are fitted with aftermarket American Walnut stocks and stock metal. Neither of these rifles would capture the interest of a serious Garand Collector which really matters not. Both would likely be an excellent shooter leaving the buyer pretty much only with a choice of caliber. Your $995 plus S&H pretty much guarantees you the best available parts used to build the rifle.

    Something else worth considering that several members here have bought are the lesser cost Service Grade M1 Garand rifles in the $625 range, so lets take a look at a few:

    RM1SAS
    RM1HRAS
    The only difference is manufacturer and obviously any H&R Manufacturer rifle will be post WWII. Most of these rifles members have bought have come with the new aftermarket American Walnut stocks. The ones I have seen all had very nice metal and finish. Something else to note is "Bores will be generally good with only minor imperfections. The barrel crown may be nicked, but the muzzle will gauge "3 or less" and the throat erosion will gauge less than 5".

    This is all about the barrel. The rifles members have gotten seem to all have been ME (Muzzle Erosion have been less than 1 and the TE (Throat Erosion) has been less than 2. Not to say every rifle will gauge like that but that is about what the members have been posting. Each rifle includes a tag wit those numbers.

    Paying for a special grade ensures new lumber and a new barrel. You need to weigh the cost difference and figure how much a new barrel is worth to you.

    Just My Take
    Ron
     
  12. RKirby

    RKirby Member

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    Ron -

    Thanks for your valuable input. I'll make up my mind this weekend and get my order in Monday morning. The Service Grade may be the best value if those gauge numbers are really representative of what's being shipped now.
     
  13. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Member

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    I just mailed my completed order form via USPS Express for a HRA service grade special and SA service grade with a WWII SN request. Hope to pick up a SA service grade special when funds recover and if it's still an option being sold. I think once the service grade specials run out, it's going to be hard to find anything near collector-grade ever again. I've already missed out on the correct and collector grades and the Winchesters, and now I have to pay for it by trying to buy a pristine, properly marked GI stock from an honest seller at current market pricing to put on a service grade special.
     
  14. Welding Rod

    Welding Rod Member

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    Ron gave some good info there.

    Let me add the SGS info:

    RM1HRASSP M1 Garand, Service Grade HRA (Harrington & Richardson) Special.
    Allow 30-60 days for delivery.
    HRA collector grade metal in excellent almost new condition. Walnut stocks and handguards and associated hardware are new manufacture. NOT original HRA manufacture.
    $950 Effective 1-3-2012
    S&H $24.95 per rifle

    RM1SASSP M1 Garand, Service Grade Springfield Special.
    allow 30-60 days for delivery.
    SA collector grade metal in excellent almost new condition. Walnut stocks and handguards and associated hardware are new manufacture. NOT original SA manufacture.
    $950 Effective 1-3-2012
    S&H $24.95 per rifle

    COLLECTOR GRADE: (Excellent)
    Collector Grade Rifles have 95% or better overall original metal finish. Rifle bores are excellent with throat erosion under 3 and muzzle wear of 2 or less. Collector Grade rifles have all original parts as they came from the manufacturer. Wood will have a few handling marks and minor dings and scratches. Stocks have the appropriate inspector's cartouche. Data sheets prepared by CMP armorers are included in the butt trap of each Collector Grade Rifle. Excellent condition - little or no use. Limited quantities are occasionally available. Prices start at $1595 depending on manufacturer

    As mentioned, the CMP customer service is outstanding. The barrels on the SGS rifles I have seen have mearsured in the 0 to 2 range.

    The Criterion is a nice barrel. The ones I have owned have nice snug ways for the front sight splines, without any peening necessary.

    I use a Special for match use. But that is mostly because I don't want to wear out my SGSs with regular high volume shooting as they are essentially brand new guns. They look like the only shooting they ever did was test firing - I don't mean the visible exterior metal finish, which like all 50 year old guns may have some handling marks, I mean the wearing surfaces of the metal parts.

    Nothing wrong with a Special, like I said, I have owned 4, but you should understand that they may contain some parts that have already provided considerable service. Most small parts are easy to replace if there is a problem, but something like partially worn rear sight serrations on the left receiver ear are something that is not too pleasant to find and hard to complain about as it is a refinished used part per the description (assuming it still holds the rear sight in place upon firing when you get it).

    My Specials have had better exterior finishes than my SGSs as the Specials had almost no handling marks on their new park.
     
  15. Double Vision

    Double Vision Member

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    I'd really like to get a Garand in .308. :)
     
  16. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Member

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    :) So would I.

    I do have one that is chambered in 7mm-08 Remington that is quite the shooter. About maybe 15 years ago I took a NRA Gunsmith course to be a M1 Garand armorer and that was my project rifle for the course. I had ordered a .308 barrel from Brownell's before the course began, matter of fact I ordered two, one for me and one for my brother-in-law. They shipped the wrong barrels and I got the 7mm-08 barrels 3 days before leaving for NC and the course. So we both built 7mm-08 Garands and bedded them and used all the national match tricks we were taught. Brownell's made good and sent the correct barrels free so I have here a brand new M1 Garand .308 barrel labeled 1:10 twist 04-97 (April 1997) :) . Hopefully I'll eventually grab another Garand worth re barreling and finally have a .308 Garand. With my retirement looming I figure it will make a good retirement project.

    Ron
     
  17. RKirby

    RKirby Member

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    For those that have recently ordered from CMP - how long is the actual wait time compared to the stated 60-90 days?
     
  18. akolleth

    akolleth Member

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    Gotta love them Garands.

    Mine is a total mix-master: 1.1 million Springfield receiver, manufactured January of 1943. After the war she was sent over to the Danes, they re-barelled her with a VAR barrel, and eventually sent her back. Somewhere in transit or when the CMP got a hold if it it was fixed up with some Italian internal parts in there. I bought it from the CMP north store as a woodless rack grade, and found a cheap Korean stock with some nice character (rack numbers) to complete it up.

    It is one of only two firearms I would never sell (unless absolutely forced to)

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Warp

    Warp Member

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  20. RKirby

    RKirby Member

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    Well, I ordered a service grade Tuesday. My wife says that I'm going to be miserable to live with the next 3 months...:D

    Warp - need details!
     
  21. Warp

    Warp Member

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    Not much too it.

    Springfield Armory Service Grade from the CMP, serial 5.3 million. Ulitmak M12 mount. Leupold QRW medium height rings. Leupold FXII 2.5x28 IER Scout Scope. USGI web sling.

    I just put the ultimak/rings/scope on this evening. I only have maybe 160 rounds through it, although I shot an AQT with it at an Appleseed and scored 49/50 on stage 1 (still with the irons, of course) with HXP M2 ball from the CMP.

    http://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-25x28mm-m8-ier-scout-rifle-scope.html

    http://ultimak.com/m12.htm

    http://www.opticsplanet.com/leupold-quick-release-weaver-style-qrw-rings.html

    20130202_205554_zpsf8c9b165.gif
     
  22. RKirby

    RKirby Member

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    Outstanding! I need to see if that arrangement is legal for the vintage sniper rifle matches at my range.

    The cat doesn't seem to be too impressed though.:)
     
  23. Johannes_Paulsen

    Johannes_Paulsen Member

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    Just ordered a Springfield Service Grade from CMP in January.

    Any suggestions on what I should do (in terms of cleaning/etc.) once I receive it? Not only first Garand, but also this will be the first rifle I've owned....
     
  24. Reloadron
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    Reloadron Member

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    Congratulations on your new rifle, well, new to you anyway! :)

    This should help with the proper care and cleaning. There are also several good videos out there on YouTube so a Google of M1 Garand Cleaning should bring up some good hits.

    For those who have just ordered the CMP is very good at filling orders with many receiving their rifles long before the foretasted dates. Just be patient and remember that good things come to those who wait. :)

    Warp, really sweet rifle you have there. Thanks for posting where you got the scope, rings and mounts from.

    Ron
     
  25. Superpsy

    Superpsy Member

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    Woot! Another one in line here. I ordered a service grade H&R and Springfield Armory because I couldn't decide which to get. :D. Looking forward to owning this piece of history. I figured I'd regret it forever if I didn't have at least one garand in my collection.
     
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