Building a gun safe....Is it worth the effort?

[Impureclient]

Thinking of buying this: http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/winchesterreg;-gun-safe-24-gun-capacity I got a raincheck for $599. Plus tax it would be $640.

Then I began thinking, what could I build myself for that $640. I'm pretty thrifty and if I am cornered , I can figure out how to put this together if this makes sense below.

I have the ability for somebody to weld(for free) something about the same size(5'x3'x2') out of 1/4" steel instead of the 12 gauge the above safe is.
Then I can fireproof it better inside and then surround the entire thing in a couple inches of high heat refractory concrete. This would all be placed inside a hall closet.
That closet would make a nice hiding spot and if found, would be a huge job to get into. I have an idea of how the inner workings of the safe doors work.
Is it very hard to install of of these: http://compare.ebay.com/like/120633368132?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar if I am doing this myself?

Rough estimate on materials - might be less as this was just a quick Google and would be probably costlier pricing I am guessing as I just went with the first prices I found.
My welder would be my source for the metal and he makes frames so I should get the best prices.

4.5'x2.5' -1/2 thick door $100-150
5'x10' -1/4"thick body $250-300
Combination dial lock $100
Extra metal $100
Cement mix $50
Fireproofing for inside $50
Inside wood and carpeting Free(piles everywhere around the house)

So I am sitting at about the same price give or take a $100 and it would have multiple times thicker steel for the body and door. Fireproofing should be much better also.

Before anybody says it, I really don't want to spend much more than this. Looking at safes that cost $1000+ is really out of the question. Besides that from what I see out there,
a decent 1/4" bodied and 1/2" doored safe would be in the thousands.
I did however look in Craigslist and found some old jewelry safes that were in the thousands of pounds and looked like they would be nice. Then moving those monsters becomes an issue.
Would those used ones be much more worth it if they could be found for under $1k?

 

[45_auto]

Material is almost always the least costly component of any manufactured product. The skill and infrastructure (labor, tools, machinery, buildings, etc) cost are generally the big drivers of total cost.

If you can provide everything except the materials at little cost, you can build a MUCH better safe for the same cost as a commercially manufactured one.

I would suggest looking at a manufactured safe and noting the details that will require additional machining and fabrication steps above simple welding.

The door hinges, door frame, locking bars, locking struts that move the bars, and the handle that ties into the locking struts will all require additional fabrication beyond welding the simple box together.

This thread shows how a kid in a high school shop class built his safe a couple of months ago. It came out pretty good. You'll have to log in to see the pictures:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=520454

 

[Al Thompson]

I'd probably skip the dial lock and go with a high security padlock (or two).

 

[Ohen Cepel]

If you have the skill, can do it, time and (most importantly for me) WILL do it. Then, I say for for it. Can't wait 5yrs till you get around to it though (meant more for me since I put things off).

Keep in mind the weight you're putting together and your location. May need to reinforce the floor some if it's upstairs.

I like the DIY at times since it will confuse the std thief if they are used to and expected a store bought safe and they know who to get into those. Your's being different would likely beat them.

 

[Outlaw Man]

If you can find them for a good price, some of the old jewelry safes are very good - offer much better security than your typical "gun safe" from a gun store.

If you're good at welding and building things, I don't think there's any reason you can't build something as secure as a $1000 gun store RSC. As Al said, get you some really good padlocks - the best you can get. A dial lock would be a huge engineering issue. Or are you talking about a combination padlock?

 

[Arp32]

This is something I've thought about doing for a while, as well. I have a welder and have done some intricate CIP concrete before (although at a smaller scale), so it's hard not to think like you that I could save some money here. Of course it would likely turn into 6 months of weekends like most of my home improvement projects, but that's another issue...

Noticed a couple of HD hinge options at the local welding supply, but the lock is the part I haven't figured out. Hate to go to all the effort of fabrication and making formwork only to put an easily defeated padlock on it.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Do it!

 

[Impureclient]

Yeah padlocks didn't seem to be the greatest until I seen some of the ones that cost $100 and up. The padlock idea seems much less work and if done in a manner that wouldn't allow much tampering, it might even be better. These puck style ones seem effective:
This is a better one : http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mul-T-Lock-T...-/181138211151 It has a regular key but I found others that have keys that don't look very pickable.
Two of those puck locks should keep away most but the most prepared thief with heavy power tools and a lot of time. Anything can be gotten into eventually.

 

[rcmodel]

I think you left out one or two major expenses.

Welding rod for 40+ liner feet of bead to make a steel box 5'x3'x2' + heavy duty hinges + grinder disks, + primer + paint is going to cost somebody some major money!

rc

 

[CB900F]

Impure;

I'm a retired locksmith who specialized in safe sales. It's very hard to find a jewelry safe that is big enough to accept long guns and light enough not to gravity deliver itself to the basement. Do try to find out the floor loading limits of your home before going either that route or continuing with your DIY project.

If you're going to go with the hockey puck type lock, I'd suggest looking into Medeco and use just one. Here's why: Many of the Master and American brand pucks are cast, be sure to get the forged steel body if possible. The Medeco will be forged. The keys for the pucks are not different enough from any other blade type to ensure that they can't be duplicated without your knowledge. Also, the lock cylinder can be picked. However, with Medeco you'll get true key control. The keys will be registered to your name & only made by signature. They can't be duplicated at any location other than the one you buy the system at. That shop will have your signature on hand & should ask for a picture I.D. anytime another key is produced. They will also keep track of how many keys have been produced & who signed for them. The Medeco cylinder is re-keyable. Therefore if a key gets lost or into the wrong hands, you can just get a re-key rather than buy a new lock. Downsides are that the Medeco will be more expensive, keys too. Because of the security control, unless your wife, or whomever, is on the signature list, they can't just take your key & run down & get a copy made. That gate swings both ways you see. It's a PIA to get a new key made, but many feel the additional security is worth it. Medeco usually offers a million dollar challenge at the ALOA national convention. You pick a their Medeco, you get a BIG check. I've never heard of it being done yet.

900F

 

[Arp32]

900F for the win - thanks for sharing your insight!

 

[Impureclient]

rc, welding rods, disks should all be free from my welder/stepdad. Well not free but no charge for me anyway. The hinges I did forget. Still in my target price range though.
Paint seems useless as it will all be encased in cement. Maybe just some truckbed spray liner to keep the cement from rusting the steel over time.

900F, is that puck style lock the hardest padlock to get into? They look like they would be the hardest as you have to cut through a lot of metal to get to the juicy center.
I guess I should be safe with anybody trying to pick it with what you said about the keys.

 

[CB900F]

Impureclient;

The puck, with the surround, is probably the best solution in your situation. I'll always prefer a solid plate door with internal lockworks and a U.L. rated combo lock, but I understand that's outside your capabilities. If you're near an urban area though, you might put out the word to the better lockshops that you'd like to buy the door of a compromised safe if it's not too damaged. With the welding connection you have, that may be a practical avenue to investigate.

900F

 

[Safetychain]

I planned on making my safe when I was given a 4x8 sheet ot 1/4" SS plate. Cutting the plate into the pieces was so difficult that I reassessed the plan and went with a cheap safe, but with security enhancements. Actually I was provided a price to cut the SS plate with a water jet. They called me back the next day saying that they had to set the speed of cut equal to 1.5 " steel and it still was not doing a good job and for me to come get the plate as it was taking too long to cut.

The enhancements:

Cheap security camera with WiFi and email features. I always wanted one of these anyway. I got a three camera system for $79. The problem is this doesn't stop the break-in. Fixed this with:

Little electrical work such as small hidden unobtrusive switch outside and a little remote from the safe such that if the safe door is opened via the two circular keys or pried open, a internal battery supplied 120 db alarm in addition to a couple of large flash bulbs inside and outside the safe go off. Believe me, twice now over the last year when I have not turned off the switch, the sound and flashes have flat put me on my behind and nearly caused a heart attack. I think any thief, even a professional, would be cleared at least long enough to clean the brown stuff out of his pants thereby letting me have enough time to check the security alert on my phone and call it in even when out of town. There's more than one way to skin a cat. If anybody can see a definitive weakness in my setup, please inform me. By the way, there is another enhancement that is not mentioned here.

 

[DammitBoy]

.

If you're going to go with the hockey puck type lock, I'd suggest looking into Medeco and use just one. Here's why: Many of the Master and American brand pucks are cast, be sure to get the forged steel body if possible. The Medeco will be forged. The keys for the pucks are not different enough from any other blade type to ensure that they can't be duplicated without your knowledge. Also, the lock cylinder can be picked. However, with Medeco you'll get true key control. The keys will be registered to your name & only made by signature. They can't be duplicated at any location other than the one you buy the system at. That shop will have your signature on hand & should ask for a picture I.D. anytime another key is produced. They will also keep track of how many keys have been produced & who signed for them. The Medeco cylinder is re-keyable. Therefore if a key gets lost or into the wrong hands, you can just get a re-key rather than buy a new lock.

This is a great post illustrative of why I love the High Road! I learn something every single time I browse these forums!

 

[SuedePflow]

Impureclient - You're a lucky man to have someone willing to burn through that much time, filler rod, and gas to weld that for you. I'm a hobbyist welder, and I can tell you that is a big job for any weldor.

Definitely sounds like a fun project! Reminds me of something I would dream up. Just brainstorming here, there's a few hurdles that I would face if I were doing this. Do you have the means to transport and handle 5'x10' -1/4" thick steel? Also, are you sure a piece would only cost $250-300? I would have guessed more. And do you have the means to accurately cut and shape 1/4" thick steel? I know I'd struggle with 1/4" as most of the stuff I work with is 1/8" or thinner.

 

[dubbleA]

Building a DYI safe is certainly doable. Having all the resources needed I have done it, but like most of my projects it winds up costing me more upon completion, but I do however take pride in my own craftsmanship, doing things myself and having a bigger, better/tougher ________ for the same amount of money spent.

There are a lot of things to consider when building a true safe and it will cost you time and money to do it right. IMHO the important things are the door frame, the locking pins around the perimeter of the door, the mechanism for the locking pins and the lock itself( I use S&G group 1 and 2's). Seems a lot of so called safes are overcome by prying the door open by the average home burglar. Mine are built with heavy formed frames, doors, locking bolts with close tolerances to greatly prevent door tampering.
You will also need a gasket around the door for fire/heat protection. Having means of bolting the safe down to the floor or concrete is another good choice as is a small access hole for electrical needed for a light or de-humidifier.

A good safe is an excellent investment on trying to protect your valuables. Is it a 100% fool proof cure? Of course not but it's better than having something hid underneath some clothes in a closet. BTW get or build it at least twice to size you need at the moment!