Bul Armory vs. Lifetime warraty?

[brontodon]

>> Take a look at the Smith & Wesson M&P line. They're US made, better grip ergonomics IMO and they have the EZ line which is designed to rack easier than their standard models. <<

The M&P Shield EZ is what my wife is likely to get. We're going to the range today to help her decide between the 9mm and the .380 version.

As for me, is it silly for me to care about the appearance of a gun? I don't like the looks of most of the Smith & Wesson semiautos. The guns I'm gravitating towards have what I'd call a simple, elegant look, and I also like the all-metal construction that I find in the 1911s and the Beretta 92 series. (S&W makes the SW1911 Performance Pro, which is a beautiful and elegant 1911, like the Springfield Garrison, and has very similar features -- for about twice the price. Is there any compelling reason to choose it over the Springfield?)

 

[JTQ]

3) Is there any point or downside in choosing a Beretta 92 RDO if Ii don't plan on a red dot sight or light accessory for the time being? I like the option of the red dot sight but I'd also like to get good at shooting the iron sights.

You really don't have the option, unless you're buying old stock or a used gun. The 92X RDO is the 92X option. The non-RDO gun is gone.

Likewise the M9A3 is gone and replaced by the RDO version the M9A4.

It makes sense from Beretta manufacturing perspective. Just cut all the Vertec slides for the RDO, and you can use it or not.

 

[JTQ]

2) Are the Garrison 1911s reliable? Some of the reviews I've been viewing/reading are talking about failures to feed or eject properly.

I would say it probably is, but somebody familiar with a 1911 would know what is right or wrong with it. It may not be for somebody just starting out, at least initially, though I suspect you'd figure it out.

 

[JTQ]

1) Is the exposed barrel of the Beretta a problem? Does it heat up to an uncomfortable degree, or does it let dirt into the gun?

I don't think it is a problem, but it will get hot with enough shooting, though it's part of the gun you probably wouldn't have a reason to touch while it is hot.

It can let dirt in, but it can also let dirt out. I don't know what situation I'd be in, as a civilian, that the open slide and dirt would be an issue.

It was a gun that was issued to the US Military for 35 years. It was replaced because it was old, and they went to a polymer/modular gun. Dirt in the slide was probably not among the top 5 or 10 reasons the M9 was replaced.

 

[JR24]

As for me, is it silly for me to care about the appearance of a gun? I don't like the looks of most of the Smith & Wesson semiautos. The guns I'm gravitating towards have what I'd call a simple, elegant look, and I also like the all-metal construction that I find in the 1911s and the Beretta 92 series. (S&W makes the SW1911 Performance Pro, which is a beautiful and elegant 1911, like the Springfield Garrison, and has very similar features -- for about twice the price. Is there any compelling reason to choose it over the Springfield?)

No, it’s not silly to worry about the looks of a gun if that’s something that appeals to you. If you like how it looks, you’re more likely to like it and shoot it, even if only a little bit moreso. End of the day you’re paying good money for it, might as well make sure it’s what you want.

1911s in the production range are probably all going to function the same, especially to a new shooter, with differences in cost largely in asthetics, brand name, or possibly the difference in small parts.

To the average user, no you’re not going to see much difference for the price between the two. 1911s all have the possibility of issues (any gun does, but they are more picky) with feeding but they’ve as a whole gotten a lot better, and many times the issue is not giving a quality magazine (I like Wilson Combat mags in all my guns). If you pick a good manufacturer like Smith or Springfield, they’ll help you if you have issues in all likelyhood anyway.

I’m not familiar with the Garrison specifically, but taking a glance at it; it looks like a nice solid no frills 1911 with all the features I’d want on it for a reasonable price.

Another one to look at would be the Ruger SR1911, which I have lot of positive experience with, but I’d doubt you’ll find anything different between them.

 

[dogtown tom]

.... My wife and I have fired a couple of Glocks in the past few weeks and did not care for them. She found them uncomforable to shoot and difficult to rack the slides, and we kept having jamming issues. So we're really soured on that brand.

What made them uncomfortable? If its the grip size try one of their slim line models (43/43X/48)

If racking the slide is too difficult on a Glock, then she's really going to dislike a Beretta with the slide mounted safety. Using the pinch with thumb and one finger is not the best technique. Further, if its lack of hand strength, semi autos may not be her best choice although S&W does make an EZ version of the Shield.

As far as "jamming issues".......Glocks are renowned for their reliability. I own and regularly shoot FN/Brownings, Colt's, Berettas, S&W. Star, Ruger and I'll confess, Glocks are light years ahead of those brands as far as reliability.

The other issue I'll introduce is that I prefer an American-made weapon. I shot well with a Beretta 92FS, but I'd prefer to buy a U.S.-made equivalent.

Both Beretta and Glock makes guns right here in the USofA......will say so right on the slide.

 

[rdnktrkr]

One thing I ran into when reloading was my 1911s didn't like fp bullets they would feed rnfp or rn fine, it might have been something I was doing but I just loaded up the fp bullets for my M&Ps and use rn for my 1911s, when my supply of fp bullets are gone I will replace with rnfp.

 

[Outlaw75]

As for me, is it silly for me to care about the appearance of a gun? I don't like the looks of most of the Smith & Wesson semiautos. The guns I'm gravitating towards have what I'd call a simple, elegant look, and I also like the all-metal construction that I find in the 1911s and the Beretta 92 series. (S&W makes the SW1911 Performance Pro, which is a beautiful and elegant 1911, like the Springfield Garrison, and has very similar features -- for about twice the price. Is there any compelling reason to choose it over the Springfield?)

Not silly at all. I wouldn't generally recommend a 1911 to a first time buyer, though. They're sort of their own animal and any you'll be stuck with going to a gunsmith for any upgrades you might want to make.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Do you have documentation for this or is it an assumption based on some of their 1911 frames in the past?

Neither. It's based on reports from folks in the industry who have examined examples and others who are making aftermarket parts for it. Did you even follow the link in Post #15?

Other higher-end 1911s in their line where all manufactured in the United States.

You really believed their media releases?

Even their top of the line 1911s, like the Professional, had imported frames and slides. This was common knowledge in the industry. It certainly wasn't a secret when I asked at the SA booth at SHOT

 

[9mmepiphany]

1) Is the exposed barrel of the Beretta a problem? Does it heat up to an uncomfortable degree, or does it let dirt into the gun?

Not at all, unless you're in the habit of grabbing the barrel of a pistol you're shooting.

The Beretta is unusually reliable, in part, due to having the largest ejection port in the industry...the other part is not having a tilting barrel. It is the easiest pistol to convert to blank firing for movies

 

[Styx]

Neither. It's based on reports from folks in the industry who have examined examples and others who are making aftermarket parts for it. Did you even follow the link in Post #15?

You really believed their media releases?

Even their top of the line 1911s, like the Professional, had imported frames and slides. This was common knowledge in the industry. It certainly wasn't a secret when I asked at the SA booth at SHOT

So it's conjecture. FYI: Springfield imported some 1911 frames/slides, and others were made in the US. As I understood it the imported frames had markings that distinguished them from the ones made in America. On top of that, unless you can cite where experts examined the SA-35 specifically, it's just assumptions that are being made with no actual facts to back it up.

Springfield admitted to where they received their 1911 frames/slides from, not not in this case? Neither Springfield or Tisas has stated that's where the frames/slides comes from, and unlike the 1911s, their are no proof marking that would give clues. There's only one guy with an anonymous source who admits that Springfield Armory never states it. It's purely speculation. The author of that link doesn't even say who his source is and how his source came to this conclusion whereas there was exact things that could be pointed to to prove that some 1911 frames/slides were imported.

 

[lee n. field]

I'm a newcomer to hangun shooting and I'm trying to settle on my first gun. (Still waiting for my New Jersey permit so I have some time to do research.) I have large hands and I'm looking for something full-size in 9mm. I really like the Springfield Armory SA-35 and a lot of the 1911s, such as the Springfield Armory 1911 Ronin. Yesterday I was at a gun store and saw a Bul Armory 1911 Commander. It seemed to be beautifully made and I'm considering it. My question is: how important is a warranty for handguns? Bul Armory warrants its guns for a year, while Springfield and Smith & Wesson (among others) offer lifetime warranties. This inspires confidence and I wonder what more experienced gun owners think about this.

Yes, it matters.

But, warranties can be slippery things. If the company goes bust, the warranty is worthless. If the importer changes, they might not honor the old importer's warranty. And, products have life cycles, and parts supplies run out.

 

[HKGuns]

If you are in the market for a 1911, buy a Colt. They are the standard by which all others are measured.

 

[9mmepiphany]

So it's conjecture. FYI: Springfield imported some 1911 frames/slides, and others were made in the US. As I understood it the imported frames had markings that distinguished them from the ones made in America. On top of that, unless you can cite where experts examined the SA-35 specifically, it's just assumptions that are being made with no actual facts to back it up.

You are free to believe whatever you want, that doesn't make it true. You're also free to deny what you don't don't care to believe, that doesn't make it false either.

There's no sense in pursuing this line of discussion further in this thread

 

[Styx]

You are free to believe whatever you want, that doesn't make it true. You're also free to deny what you don't don't care to believe, that doesn't make it false either.

Ditto

 

[Howland937]

models. <<

The M&P Shield EZ is what my wife is likely to get. We're going to the range today to help her decide between the 9mm and the .380 version

Some considerations.
--It may be wise to choose handguns chambered for the same caliber so as to not get intermingling ammo.
--If finances allow, buy once/cry once. I live in Ohio. If I settle for something I think I may like and dont, I can sell or trade quite easily. You dont get that lucky in NJ. Get the best quality you can afford cause you'll likely be stuck with it a long time.
--Where its made or available warranty isn't as much a deal breaker for me as where it'd have to go if it did need service. Somewhere that whoever answers the phone will speak a language I can understand? Ok, good enough.
--if you're leaning toward a 1911, don't believe this

If you are in the market for a 1911, buy a Colt. They are the standard by which all others are measured.

It hasn't been true for at least 30 years. And for Colt money, you can definitely do better.

 

[brontodon]

OK, I just got back from the range. I was able to try out a number of guns, but I'm sorry to say I didn't shoot well today.
* We tried a CZ TS-2 Orange, which is apparently a competition pistol. I did not like the extremely light trigger touch -- I kept firing it unintentionally.
* We tried a Springfield 1911 Operator, I believe. I liked it but didn't shoot well with it. It also didn't pop open when the magazine was empty -- a lot of the rental guns at our range are heavily used and not in the best condition.
* We tried a Beretta 92FS -- also didn't seem to be in the greatest condition. I didn't shoot it nearly as well as the last 92 I tried. It was surprisingly light compared to the other guns we used.
* I shot a CZ P-10, which I found to be too small for my hands, and its light weight led to a powerful recoil.
* I tried the Smith & Wesson M&P Shield EZ 9mm that my wife was testing -- way too small for me, and uncomfortable recoil. I'm sticking with larger, heavier guns. She found that she preferred an HK VP9L to the S&W, so she is refining her preferences as well.
Right now I'm leaning towards a Springfield 1911 Garrison in stainless steel, or a Beretta 92X RDO, or a Springfield SA-35 (if I can test fire one.)

 

[HKGuns]

It hasn't been true for at least 30 years. And for Colt money, you can definitely do better.

You're entitled to your opinion. It still holds true for non custom or semi custom 1911's. AU just finished a sale on Colts for $699. Try to find a better 1911 for less money.

Nice try regardless.

 

[Lo-Profile]

Out of the 80+ guns I own, I've used a warranty 1 time about 15 years ago. I don't even consider the warranty offered when purchasing a gun.

You could always buy thru Davidson's that offers a lifetime warranty on guns sold thru them no matter the manufacturer.
Just go to their website, you order thru the gun genie

 

[Howland937]

You're entitled to your opinion. It still holds true for non custom or semi custom 1911's. AU just finished a sale on Colts for $699. Try to find a better 1911 for less money.

Nice try regardless.

Don't know who AU is, but if they were selling Colt 1911's for $699 that's about $500 less than any new Colt 1911 I've seen in recent years. If Colt is in the business of competing with Kimber and Ruger, I'd maybe give Colt the edge.

Mostly I see new Colt 1911's in the $1200+ range and there's a bunch of folks in that market. Dan Wesson probably tops the sub $2K group, but even Sig and S&W have put out (in my experience) more reliable and more refined 1911's lately. I don't hate Colt. In fact, I hope CZ breathes life into them and produces something worthy of the reputation they used to have.

 

[ontarget]

OK, I just got back from the range. I was able to try out a number of guns, but I'm sorry to say I didn't shoot well today.
* We tried a CZ TS-2 Orange, which is apparently a competition pistol. I did not like the extremely light trigger touch -- I kept firing it unintentionally.
* We tried a Springfield 1911 Operator, I believe. I liked it but didn't shoot well with it. It also didn't pop open when the magazine was empty -- a lot of the rental guns at our range are heavily used and not in the best condition.
* We tried a Beretta 92FS -- also didn't seem to be in the greatest condition. I didn't shoot it nearly as well as the last 92 I tried. It was surprisingly light compared to the other guns we used.
* I shot a CZ P-10, which I found to be too small for my hands, and its light weight led to a powerful recoil.
* I tried the Smith & Wesson M&P Shield EZ 9mm that my wife was testing -- way too small for me, and uncomfortable recoil. I'm sticking with larger, heavier guns. She found that she preferred an HK VP9L to the S&W, so she is refining her preferences as well.
Right now I'm leaning towards a Springfield 1911 Garrison in stainless steel, or a Beretta 92X RDO, or a Springfield SA-35 (if I can test fire one.)

Welcome to THR.
You're on the right track with testing out guns before you decide.
As a newbie it might go a long way to find a helpful LGS. I mean a shop with someone willing and able to walk you through the process of buying an appropriate gun, AND answering questions and concerns after the sale.
Your earlier post about shooting a Glock that jammed had me thinking you might need some coaching. Glocks are renowned for their reliability. (I do not own a Glock and never have). Anyway, a good gun shop will provide great service before and after the sale. Just something to consider.

 

[Tallball]

Big metal pistols are easier to use. Pistols that fit your hands well are easier to use. Shooting before you buy is a great idea. Seems like the OP is doing an excellent job.

Shooting handguns decently is difficult. Don't get discouraged. It takes time. I'd recommend an inexpensive 22 for recoil-free practice as another handgun purchase. It helps a lot.

CZ75 variants, Beretta 92's, and 1911's are all good pistols suitable for many years of use. It's win/win/win. There's not a wrong answer there.

Most Beretta 92 variants have an aluminum frame, so they do feel a little lighter.

 

[brontodon]

>> As a newbie it might go a long way to find a helpful LGS. I mean a shop with someone willing and able to walk you through the process of buying an appropriate gun, AND answering questions and concerns after the sale. <<

There is a gun store affiliated with the range we've been using. They were very helpful to us yesterday and answered many questions. One problem is that it's in New Jersey and we can't even TOUCH a firearm in the store until our NJ licenses come through. A few days ago we visited a store in Pennsylvania and it was an entirely different experience -- they let us handle as many guns as we wanted and spent quite a bit of time with us, even knowing we are not ready to buy yet. (The reason we were in PA is that we are looking to buy property there. This sort of complicates things, because there are certain guns we'd like that are not legal in NJ, but are in PA. I'd hate to buy (for example) a Springfield SA-35 and have it crippled to use only 10-round mags when it is capable of using 15.)

 

[brontodon]

>> Most Beretta 92 variants have an aluminum frame, so they do feel a little lighter. <<

Does that make them any less durable?

 

[brontodon]

>> I'd recommend an inexpensive 22 for recoil-free practice as another handgun purchase. <<

Our plan has been exactly that, although a number of people have told us that you should practice with the gun and caliber you plan on using. It's certainly cheaper and easier to shoot .22. Do you feel that the skills transfer?

The LGS in PA we visited recommended a Smith & Wesson Victory or a Ruger Mark IV. Any opinions?