Bullet choices; pistol vs. rifle?

[Trey Veston]

I bought a .450 Bushmaster upper for one of my ARs and took it and a box of Hornady Black ammo out. Loads of fun! The hornady ammo uses their 250gr FTX bullet going 2200fps.

So now I need to roll my own and have been reloading for 45 Colt, 10mm, and .40 S&W for a couple of years now and really enjoy it.

My favorite off-the-shelf bullet for my .45 Colt has been the Hornady XTP 250gr. I also have a few different molds for 255gr and 300gr cast bullets that I have used for my bear loads using a hard cast mix.

I can get the XTP for $25 per 100 at my nearest Wal-Mart, but, it is a pistol bullet.

I've been told that the pistol bullets can not be used past 1500 fps or so.

My favorite bullet maker has some great plated 250gr .452 bullets that he says not to go past 1400 fps with.

So, the only commercially available rifle bullet in .452 is the Hornady FTX so far that I've found. I can cast my own, but I also have to run gas checks.

Any reason the XTP can't hold up to over 2000fps?

 

[LiveLife]

I've been told that the pistol bullets can not be used past 1500 fps or so.

My favorite bullet maker has some great plated 250gr .452 bullets that he says not to go past 1400 fps with.

That most likely applies to thicker plated bullets. Regular plated bullets with .004"-.008" thickness copper plating are typically rated to around 1200 fps and thicker plated bullets with .010"-.014" thickness copper plating are rated to 1300-1500 fps - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195

Speer TMJ and Gold Dots are thicker plated bullets (Supposedly around .015" for TMJ and .018" for Gold Dot) with copper plating thickness on par with gilding metal thickness used for jacketed bullets (around .015"-.030") and can be pushed to higher velocities.

Many 9mm carbine reloaders push lighter 380Auto/9mm 95 gr jacketed bullets to over 1700 fps without jacket failure or loss of bullet integrity.

Any reason the XTP can't hold up to over 2000fps?

I think velocity rating for jacketed bullets will depend on the bullet type and construction and manufacturer should be able to provide maximum velocity ratings.

 

[Trey Veston]

I checked the Hornady site and they didn't have any rating or specifications that I could see...

 

[LiveLife]

UPDATE: Found this Hornady XTP velocity performance chart which shows velocity rating of 1700 to 2100 fps depending on the caliber/bullet weight (scroll to bottom of link) - https://www.chuckhawks.com/underrated_hornady_XTP.htm

And I believe the linked chart is "performance" velocity rating and not maximum velocity/bullet integrity rating.

 

[brewer12345]

I'd guess the pistol bullets will shoot just fine. Where the rating for velocity matters is when you hunt. A pistol bullet might come apart or blow up if pushed too hard.

 

[LiveLife]

Where the rating for velocity matters is when you hunt. A pistol bullet might come apart or blow up if pushed too hard.

Yes, I believe the linked chart shows "performance" velocity rating and not maximum velocity rating of "pistol" XTP bullets as article mentions "terminal velocity, no core separation and 70% plus weight retention".

 

[Trey Veston]

The whole point of this rifle build is as a defensive carbine while camping and hiking in the Idaho mountains. Current rifle in that role is a Marlin 1894 in .45 Colt that I use either 250gr XTPs or 300gr hard cast.

Chances of me actually using it against predators are pretty slim. Cougars, wolves, and angry moose more likely than grizzly. Drunk white trash way higher percentage than anything else...

 

[Trey Veston]

I just ordered some of the 225gr FTX bullets and will give those a try.

 

[LiveLife]

Chances of me actually using it against predators are pretty slim ... Drunk white trash way higher percentage than anything else.

My favorite bullet maker has some great plated 250gr .452 bullets that he says not to go past 1400 fps

250 gr plated bullet traveling at 1400 fps will do some damage on two legged creatures.

 

[.308 Norma]

I checked the Hornady site and they didn't have any rating or specifications that I could see...

I looked it up in my Hornady (8th Edition) Manual, and what I found seemed kind of strange to me at first. My manual actually lists 3 different, .452” XTP pistol bullets – a 240gr, a 250gr, and a 300gr. However, according to my manual, the 250gr XTP is only rated to 1600 fps muzzle velocity, while both the 240gr and the 300gr XTPs are rated to 2,200 fps.

Digging a little deeper in my manual, I found that both the 240gr and the 300gr bullets are actually called “MAG” XTPs, while the 250gr is just called a “HP”-XTP.

Digging deeper still, I found this statement: “This big bore pistol bullet can be driven at high handgun velocities and with the new XTP Mag design will insure deep, reliable penetration that handgun hunters want.

At any rate, I couldn’t tell from the pictures if the new “MAG” XTPs are hollow-points or not. But they must have thicker jackets or something if they are designed to hold together better at higher velocities than regular HP-XTPs.

 

[.308 Norma]

Drunk white trash way higher percentage than anything else...

Yeppers, my wife and I are old (emphasis on the "old") Idaho backpackers too. And even after they reintroduced wolves into the Idaho wilderness, we always felt more at risk at the trailheads than when we were 10 or 15 miles into the wilderness. We even bought an old, beat-up Toyota pickup as our dedicated backpacking vehicle. We thought it foolish to leave a nice looking vehicle at a trailhead while we were spending a week in the backcountry.
Anyway, just to keep this gun related - I carried a heavily loaded Taurus 41 Magnum, and we both carried large canisters of bear spray. We never had to use either. We never saw a grizzly, the only black bears and cougars we saw were running away, occasionally we heard wolves but never saw any, and we were always able to detour around moose or wait for them to wander off.

 

[mcb]

There are two types of Hornady XTP bullets in .452 Cal. There is the HP/XTP and the XTP/MAG. The HP/XTP comes in a 250gr or 300gr version as was intended for slower 45 Colt at traditional velocities. For 450 Bushmaster you want the XTP/MAG version that comes in either 240gr or 300gr. This bullet was intended for hot 45 Colt, 454 Casull and 460S&W velocities and thus will work very nicely in your 450 Bushmaster.

Hornady also makes the FTX bullets in 200gr, 225gr, 250gr and if you look around you can sometime find the 300gr as Blems from Midway. The 300gr normally only gets sold as a muzzle loader bullet with a sabot but they work pretty good in 450 Bushmaster if you don't try to push them too fast.

Most any bullet designed for the 454 Casull or 460 S&W will be a good candidate to try in your 450 Bushmaster.

Barnes makes an all copper 275gr TSX specifically for 450 Bushmaster. They also make a 200gr PBX that I have push to impressive velocity/energy from my 450BM.

Hodgdon's online database now has load data for the Hornady 225gr & 250gr FTX, Barnes 275gr TSX, and 300gr Swift A-frame


Left to Right: Barnes, 200gr XPB, Barnes 275gr TSX, Hornady 240gr XTP/MAG, Hornady 300gr XTP/MAG, Hornady, 225gr FTX, Hornady 250gr FTX, Remington 405gr SP (resized)

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO it would be a good idea to contact Hornady and ask them about the velocity limits of the bullets you want to use.

 

[Ironicaintit]

wait a minute... your walmart carries reloading supplies?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

wait a minute... your walmart carries reloading supplies?

Every state is different and each store manager has the ability to stock what he/she wants. I'm sure they are more gun supply friendly in Idaho than Colorado.I

Here in the Northeast of Pa we have ammo and guns in the local Wal-Mart stores but no reloading components. (unfortunately)

 

[brewer12345]

If 2 legged predators are the primary threat, fragmentation on impact may not be a problem.

 

[Toprudder]

There are two types of Hornady XTP bullets in .452 Cal. There is the HP/XTP and the XTP/MAG. The HP/XTP comes in a 250gr or 300gr version as was intended for slower 45 Colt at traditional velocities. For 450 Bushmaster you want the XTP/MAG version that comes in either 240gr or 300gr. This bullet was intended for hot 45 Colt, 454 Casull and 460S&W velocities and thus will work very nicely in your 450 Bushmaster.

Hornady also makes the FTX bullets in 200gr, 225gr, 250gr and if you look around you can sometime find the 300gr as Blems from Midway. The 300gr normally only gets sold as a muzzle loader bullet with a sabot but they work pretty good in 450 Bushmaster if you don't try to push them too fast.

Most any bullet designed for the 454 Casull or 460 S&W will be a good candidate to try in your 450 Bushmaster.

Barnes makes an all copper 275gr TSX specifically for 450 Bushmaster. They also make a 200gr PBX that I have push to impressive velocity/energy from my 450BM.

Hodgdon's online database now has load data for the Hornady 225gr & 250gr FTX, Barnes 275gr TSX, and 300gr Swift A-frame

View attachment 804588
Left to Right: Barnes, 200gr XPB, Barnes 275gr TSX, Hornady 240gr XTP/MAG, Hornady 300gr XTP/MAG, Hornady, 225gr FTX, Hornady 250gr FTX, Remington 405gr SP (resized)

^^^^ THIS ^^^^

As I load for a 460 S&W, I can share bullets with the 450B. I will be standardizing on the Horndady 240 XTP/MAG as it will work in both and the cost is reasonable. The 460 is a very high pressure round (65k psi, same as magnum rifles) so it needs the thicker jacket to handle the pressure. Any bullet rated for the 460 can be used in the 450B, but not the other way around.

The Hornady manual lists 3 of their bullets for the 450, the 240 XTP/MAG, the 250 FTX, and the 300 XTP/MAG.

Also, you might check out 450bushmaster.net, lots of good load information there.

 

[Varminterror]

250 gr plated bullet traveling at 1400 fps will do some damage on two legged creatures.

Indeed it will, but it’s unfortunate to think about carrying a full size rifle to launch it.

Hornady wouldn’t be loading the 250 as factory ammo if it couldn’t take the velocity - however, that doesn’t mean it is suitable for bear defense. Killing deer and stopping human assailants are a lot easier than stopping bear, so it sounds like the 250 will be just fine for your wants and realistic needs.

 

[mcb]

https://www.shootersforum.com/attac...n-44-mag-hornady-xtp-velocity-performance.pdf

The above link it to a PDF that Hornady published a few years ago on the XTP bullet line. Not sure why it's not on their website anymore. Most of the XTP bullets listed in the document are still in production. You can look up the Hornady Part number for the specific bullet you are interested in and reference the chart above. It's similar to the chart linked earlier in the thread in a Chuck Hawk artical but with the need part numbers and other useful information.

 

[befus]

Nice thread. I see much love for the 225 FTX elsewhere, but I like heavy thumper bullets, and am not finding much useful info on 300 grain pills. The 275 Barnes tempts me, but the BC and SD are just abysmal.

 

[Bfh_auto]

I looked it up in my Hornady (8th Edition) Manual, and what I found seemed kind of strange to me at first. My manual actually lists 3 different, .452” XTP pistol bullets – a 240gr, a 250gr, and a 300gr. However, according to my manual, the 250gr XTP is only rated to 1600 fps muzzle velocity, while both the 240gr and the 300gr XTPs are rated to 2,200 fps.

Digging a little deeper in my manual, I found that both the 240gr and the 300gr bullets are actually called “MAG” XTPs, while the 250gr is just called a “HP”-XTP.

Digging deeper still, I found this statement: “This big bore pistol bullet can be driven at high handgun velocities and with the new XTP Mag design will insure deep, reliable penetration that handgun hunters want.

At any rate, I couldn’t tell from the pictures if the new “MAG” XTPs are hollow-points or not. But they must have thicker jackets or something if they are designed to hold together better at higher velocities than regular HP-XTPs.

300XTP Mag is a hollow point. They are much harder than a standard xtp.