Plated bullet differences - Mythbusting at 25/50 yards

[bluetopper]

From my and my shooting buddy's years of experience shooting 38 148gr wadcutters, both double end and hollow base, no plated or coated bullet will shoot as tight a group as a well-fitted hand cast square base cast lead bullet.
We have bench rested all of them at 25-50 yds in nice S&W revolvers and out of 38 wadcutter automatics.

 

[LiveLife]

Yes I agree but this thread is about plated bullet comparison while referencing coated/jacketed bullet accuracy.

Here's the OP and summary of information so far (Fixed stock will replace adjustable stock to remove play):

Over the years on THR, many discussions ensued addressing the differences in plated bullets but subjective/personal opinions were often voiced instead of objective/factual data and I hope this thread will clarify questions regarding differences in plated bullets and in the spirit of "THR mythbusting" (like the digital scale mythbusting thread), do comparison range tests at 25/50 yards loaded up to rated velocities (ultimately, it's the holes on target that really matter, right?)

Testing method using the following:

- 17" Just Right carbine with 9mm/40S&W/45ACP caliber conversions (using fixed stock to remove adjustable stock play)
- Bushnell Banner Dusk & Dawn 6-18x50mm
- Leapers UTG Tactical OP bipod
- Caldwell chrono/app with Samsung smartphone

To conduct "blind test" during range sessions, I will have my wife/daughter load up numbered ammo boxes with rounds primer side up and I will not look at the bullet tips of loaded rounds while loading the magazines. Targets will be numbered same as ammo boxes so I won't know which brand bullets I am firing until I return back home.

Barrels of carbine will be cleaned the same prior to firing each test group for 5 round chrono measurements followed by 10 shot groups at 25 and 50 yards. To minimize barrel wear from bore brush (due to this thread discussion), barrels will be cleaned with Hoppes #9 swab followed by clean patches (Viva paper towel) and copper bore brush will be used only when necessary. Barrels will be allowed to cool between test groups.

Plated bullet information as best as I could find (requested verification from all the manufacturers):

Speer Gold Dot: Around .018" - http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/gold_dot_const.aspx

Speer Total Metal Jacket (TMJ - Trademark) : Around .015" - http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/handgun/plinker/tmj.aspx

Rocky Mountain Reloading Hardcore Match: .012" - .014" (rated to 1500 fps, 11-12 BHN) - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...15-gr-rmr-hardcore-match-round-nose-plated-2/

Berry's MFG Thick Plate (TP): .006" - .012" (rated to 1500 fps) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9589491#post9589491

PowerBond/Accura Outdoors: .010" - .011" (rated to 1300 fps) - https://accuraoutdoors.com/product-category/bullets/

X-Treme Heavy Plate Concave Base/Hollow Point (HPCB/HP): .008" - .010" (rated to 1500 fps, lead wire) - http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm

Rocky Mountain Reloading Regular: .008" - .010" (no velocity rating yet) - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...9mm-124-gr-rmr-round-nose-plated-bullets-new/

Berry's MFG Regular: .0035" - .008" (rated to 1250 fps) - https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq#FAQ6

X-Treme Regular: .006" - .008" (rated to 1200 fps, lead wire) - http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm

Hunting Shack Munitions: Around .005" (no fps rating) - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/26...ameter-124-grain-plated-round-nose-box-of-500

Rainier Ballistics: Around .004" (rated to 1500 fps?) - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...-9mm-355-diameter-115-grain-plated-round-nose

Frontier Complete Metal Jacket (CMJ): Can't find plating thickness or fps rating - http://www.frontierbullets.co.za/pro...acket-bullets/

Bullets ordered and donated by THR members for testing (Coated/jacketed bullets will be tested for reference and will be used for upcoming jacketed comparison thread):

I have the following/ordered for 9mm testing:

115 gr Jacketed:
- Hornady HAP
- Hornady XTP
- RMR FMJ
- Winchester FMJ
- Zero FMJ

124 gr Jacketed:
- Hornady HAP
- Hornady XTP
- Montana Gold JHP
- Precision Delta JHP
- Remington GS JHP
- RMR JHP
- Zero JHP

115 gr Plated:
- Berry's Regular RN
- Berry's HBRN-TP
- HSM RN
- PowerBond RN
- Rainier RN
- RMR HM RN
- Speer TMJ
- X-Treme Regular RN
- X-Treme HPCB RN

124 gr Plated:
- Berry's Regular RN/FP
- Berry's HBRN-TP
- HSM RN
- PowerBond RN
- Rainier RN
- RMR HM FP/RN/HP
- Speer Gold Dot HP
- Speer TMJ
- X-Treme Regular RN
- X-Treme HPCB RN

147 gr Plated:
- RMR HM HP
- X-Treme HP

Coated lead bullets:
- Precision 115 gr TC
- Blue bullet 125 gr RN
- MBC 124 gr Cone Nose
- Lee 120 gr TC (11 BHN coated with RAL)

Sample of spreadsheet to allow sorting of test data (sample sorted by column "B"):

 

[Ed Jaws]

... snip, Jake from RMR confirmed Hardcore Match 115 gr are sized .356", 124 gr are sized .3565" and 147 gr are sized .357" ,snip...

Thanks for that, in fact, thanks for all the work you do here on THR.

I was going to contact Jake at RMR to find out this exact info. I shoot a Blackhawk convertible 357/9mm and those bullet sound like just the ticket for that application when I handload 9mm for it. I was quite surprised when Jake previously mentioned in this thread that he "shoots .357 diameter plated bullets in all my 9mms." Never thought of that.

I'm now wondering what the diameter of if his .357 (.38) 125 Gr. RMR Round Nose Plated Hollow Point with Cannelure is... but that's for another thread.

 

[longdayjake]

.357 (.38) 125 Gr. RMR Round Nose Plated Hollow Point with Cannelure is

Tolerances are supposed to be .357-.358

 

[Ed Jaws]

Thanks Jake.

I placed an order for the 9mm 147 Gr. RMR Hardcore Match Round Nose Plated. I'll have a range report with the Ruger Blackhawk convertible test gun in a few weeks after I receive them.

bds, if you want some of these, send me your contact info.

EDIT: bds, I see you're listing as ordered, 147 gr Plated: - RMR HM HP, but I'm not sure if you mean HP as in hollow point or HP as in heavy plate?
Check that,,, RMR doesn't list 147gr. in hollow point.

 

[longdayjake]

Ed, we are currently out of our hollow point HC and I have more on order but they are telling me that it wont be until things slow down a little that they will have extra capacity to make the HP again.

 

[LiveLife]

OK, I have finally received all the bullets ordered. Once again, big thanks to Duvel/kcofohio/lauderdale/Dudedog/Artofgolf for sending bullets for testing and as requested, paying forward the generosity on "Thank you THR PIF" thread and to snuffy.

Adjustable stock wobble: To address the "wobble" issue in the adjustable stock Walkalong pointed out, I ordered two Magpul CTR adjustable stocks with locking levers from PSA. What I found is JR carbine uses commercial spec buffer tube and was too big to allow the mil spec CTR stock to slide on (so planned on replacing both the buffer tube and the stock). PSA carbine MOE buffer tube was mil spec and allowed the CTR stock to slide on but even with the locking lever applied, I could still feel slight wobble so for the JR carbine, I decided to swap out the A2 fixed stock from the Bushmaster.

Carbine length to rifle length buffer tube swap: Since the A2 stock has longer rifle length buffer tube, it took 18 quarters in the buffer tube to make up the length difference to use with carbine length buffer and spring from the JR carbine. With the A2 fixed stock on the JR carbine, it definitely felt better to the point I am seriously thinking about getting fixed stocks for both JR and PSA carbines for accuracy testing purposes.

Reference jacketed loads: To test out the Magpul CTR stock on PSA carbine and A2 fixed stock on JR carbine, I loaded up 115 gr Hornady HAP, RMR FMJ and Zero FMJ with W231/HP-38 as reference for plated bullets. But on the way up to my usual 25/50/100 yard shooting spot, transmission in the suburban gave out so I picked a closer spot to do 25 yard testing/chrono measurements.

Range Report (17" JR carbine - ambient temperature 65 F):

115 gr Hornady HAP 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 @ 1.075": 1342-1202-1339-1327-1304 fps - Average: 1302 fps, SD: 58, ES 140

115 gr RMR FMJ 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 @ 1.130": 1256-1214-1240-1316-1252 fps - Average: 1255 fps, SD: 37, ES: 102

115 gr Zero FMJ 4.8 gr W231/HP-38 @ 1.130": 1259-1243-1268-1343-1326 fps - Average: 1287 fps, SD 43, ES: 100

 

[LiveLife]

Here are initial 25 yard reference 10 round shot groups. As you can see, the A2 fixed stock made a difference compared to the wobbly adjustable stock. I plan to do more reference shot group testing with jacketed bullets before moving on to "blind" plated bullet testing.

JR carbine with adjustable stock

JR carbine with A2 fixed stock

For comparison "blind test" of plated bullets, will use calipers for Outside-to-Outside (OTO) measurements and OnTarget software for Center-to-Center (CTC) measurements:

8 shot cluster measured 0.75" OTO

And 0.545" measured CTC using OnTarget - http://www.ontargetshooting.com/download1.html

 

[LiveLife]

I started using 10 round shot groups instead of 5 after agreeing with jmorris' suggestion.

After reading this post, I may increase the number of rounds per shot group - http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6086530#post6086530

Do you think there is significant benefit of shooting 15-20 rounds instead of 10?

I plan to fire some rounds to warm up the barrel before doing any testing to remove cold vs hot barrel factor to the testing criteria

Barrels of carbine will be cleaned the same prior to firing each test group for 5 round chrono measurements followed by 10 shot groups at 25 and 50 yards. To minimize barrel wear from bore brush ... barrels will be cleaned with Hoppes #9 swab followed by clean patches (Viva paper towel) and copper bore brush will be used only when necessary. Barrels will be allowed to cool between test groups.

 

[egd]

As the saying goes-this ain't rocket science. We aren't trying to launch a rocket, just determine if there is much difference in plated bullets. I think 10 shots is plenty.
That thread just makes it way too complicated, IMO.

 

[LiveLife]

I am just trying to remove as much variables as possible for an objective comparison testing.

Since I was planning to do additional reference load testing, I could do 10 vs 15 vs 20 shot group comparison but if there is no further objection, I can continue with 10 round shot groups.

Well, the transmission in the suburban is toast and will need a replacement so it may be some time before I can do additional range test.

In the meantime, I will be measuring bullet weight/dimension variance and posting those pictures.

 

[egd]

Sorry about the transmission. Good luck with it.

 

[Dudedog]

Well, the transmission in the suburban is toast and will need a replacement so it may be some time before I can do additional range test.

Sorry to hear that. Ouch $

Did you shoot it to put it out of it's misery?
Maybe Plated bullet transmission penetration tests

 

[LiveLife]

Not at all. No suburban will be harmed during my range testing.

The 97 Suburban 4x4 with 350 V8 has been a trusty old friend (our 3rd suburban) and after engine rebuild, running smoothly. At 200K+ miles, the transmission was due for a rebuild.

Took wife's 2016 Ram 1500 4x4 Ecodiesel up to the shooting spot (several miles of dirt road with light rock crawling the last mile) and I needed to use four wheel drive with very firm ride that left me missing the Suburban which can drive the same trail in two wheel drive at twice the speed with much cushy ride.

Wife fell yesterday and dislocated her elbow, so reloading/range testing will be put on hold for a while.

 

[egd]

How's that saying go??...If it wasn't for bad luck you'd have no luck at all.
Man, sorry.

 

[Dudedog]

Double ouch.
Hope you wife gets better soon.


DD

 

[LiveLife]

Update: Wife will be in half cast for another week but doing better and transmission for the 97 suburban is rebuilt and I should be able to resume range testing but it started raining so I may need to work on shooting in the rain set up.

Nice thing about suburban is rear seat folds flat to provide 8 foot dry prone shooting space with bipod even in the rain and tarp attached to rear of roof rack will provide rain cover for the chrono on tripod.

Any suggestions for wet target material and mounting?

 

[egd]

I don't know about targets other than maybe just clear plastic over them. But I'd double up on ear protection if you shoot from such a closed in space.

 

[LiveLife]

Huh? What hearing damage? (I think hearing already shot from too many M60/M16 rounds without proper hearing protection in the Army )

I already done prone shooting test from inside the suburban with both back doors wide open (with hinge release) and muzzle sticking out where the bumper is and with different over the ear hearing protectors, felt much better than shooting at indoor range with concrete walls.

I think this is due to most of muzzle blast going away from the muzzle without echoing of sound waves back.

I don't know about targets other than maybe just clear plastic over them

Actually very good idea. I can make a box frame out of PVC and stretch heavy mil plastic sheet and tape sheet protectors to hold paper.

 

[Blue68f100]

Try spraying the target with the clear plastic spray to water proof it. I use to do this on cardboard backing to make it last a little longer.

 

[luzyfuerza]

The material used to make politicians' yard signs is waterproof. Makes a good target backer.

Stick-on shoot-n-see targets (or similar) are also waterproof.

 

[LiveLife]

Update:

- Shooting in the rain - Since I will be shooting a lot of targets, for now will continue to use 8.5x11 copy paper due to low cost. I have plenty PVC pipes so will make a target holder with rain cover to see how it works.

- Building a machine rest - I have been shooting from folding table/chair using bipod and my support hand on the bottom of stock. Since I will be doing prone shooting inside the Suburban, thinking about building a machine rest similar to this one hard mounted to Suburban to remove shooter factor - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=10374190#post10374190

- Use of new vs mixed brass - Planning to order new brass to do comparison range test, especially with the machine rest.

 

[LiveLife]

Been studying the machine rest Bart B mentioned and found these detailed close up photos - https://www.flickr.com/photos/12787226@N00/sets/72157594303093714/

While researching different machine rests, I found photo of machine rest Army Marksman Unit uses in this article - http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/12/man-vs-machine-comparative-rifle-accuracy-at-600-yards/

I have also looked at other custom and retail machine rests like this one (but many posted issues with shot-to-shot repeatability requiring adjustment for each shot) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLyms_gYMVY

I think key to building a machine rest regardless of recoil/dampening system used is repeatability of zero after each shot.

 

[LiveLife]

Updating RMR regular plating thickness and fps rating.

Speer Gold Dot: Around .018" - http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/gold_dot_const.aspx

Speer Total Metal Jacket (TMJ - Trademark) : Around .015" - http://www.speer-bullets.com/products/handgun/plinker/tmj.aspx

Rocky Mountain Reloading Hardcore Match: .012" - .014" (rated to 1500 fps, 11-12 BHN) - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...15-gr-rmr-hardcore-match-round-nose-plated-2/

Berry's MFG Thick Plated (TP): .006" - .012" (rated to 1500 fps) - http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=9589491#post9589491

PowerBond/Accura Outdoors: .010" - .011" (rated to 1300 fps) - https://accuraoutdoors.com/product-category/bullets/

X-Treme Heavy Plate Concave Base/Hollow Point (HPCB/HP): .008" - .010" (rated to 1500 fps, lead wire) - http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm

Rocky Mountain Reloading Regular: .008" - .010" (rated to 1400 fps) - https://rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets...9mm-124-gr-rmr-round-nose-plated-bullets-new/

Berry's MFG Regular: .0035" - .008" (rated to 1250 fps) - https://www.berrysmfg.com/faq#FAQ6

Hunting Shack Munitions: Around .005" (no fps rating) - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/26...ameter-124-grain-plated-round-nose-box-of-500

Rainier Ballistics: Around .004" (rated to 1500 fps?) - http://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...-9mm-355-diameter-115-grain-plated-round-nose

X-Treme Regular: .006" - .008" (rated to 1200 fps, lead wire) - http://www.xtremebullets.com/Bullet-Load-Info-s/1952.htm

Frontier CMJ (Complete Metal Jacket): Can't find plating thickness or fps rating - http://www.frontierbullets.co.za/product/complete-metal-jacket-bullets/

 

[earplug]

When were scoring or taping up USPSA targets shot at less then five yards with plated bullets we often see a spiral shaped pattern of copper on the targets. The pattern is about a inch or more in diameter. I don't know what brands of plated bullets cause this. I'd wager the accuracy is effected.