bullet length and weight variance

[Axis II]

I figured I would put this out there to help some other guys so they don't have a headache or maybe get some knowledge

I found berry 55gr 223 FMJ-BT at cabelas for $44 for 500pc so figured why not. I loaded about 10 of them and the COAL was all over the place. I then measured 10 and weighed 10 and the length of the bullets varied from .734-.746 and weight was off almost 5gr variances and the chanalure was huge and measuring the middle of the bullet had variance too. I was just going to chalk it up and just use them as blasting ammo or see if I could sort them by length and seat deeper or longer and a few buddies said take them back to cabelas they wouldn't fly for that. I called my local cabelas and spoke to them and they agreed and said no issue bring them back for store credit.

I measure some of my hornady bullets and they have a slight variance but nothing this extreme. is this normal to have this much variance?

 

[au_prospector]

Yes that is normal with that type of bullet. You answered your own question in your post. "I was just going to chalk it up and just use them as blasting ammo" These are plinkers and 100 yard steel slappers. If you want match ammo bullets, you buy match ammo bullets. Although I must say, 5 grain variance on bullet weight? That seems impossible, 5 whole grains? Geez!

 

[Reefinmike]

No, not normal. those bullets are junk, return them and buy yourself one of those bulk boxes of hornady 55gr fmjbt that go on sale for $140/2k periodically.

It's not uncommon for length to vary a bit bullet by bullet, what matters is the length from the base of the bullet to the ogive, not necessarily to the tip of the bullet.

 

[au_prospector]

If you could slice some open, you might also notice variance in the copper cup used as the bullet jacket. This will affect the bullet center of gravity which has an affect on flight path accuracy. If you have the Hornady reloading manual 9th edition, read their essay on "Firing a Cartridge" specifically page 27-30.

 

[au_prospector]

BTW, bullet length should not affect COAL should it? One bullet longer than the other should simply be seated deeper and the COAL be the same? Unless that is ~ your die seating stem is touching bullets in different places as it pushes them down I suppose. . . Your die is locked down tight?

 

[Bart B.]

All mass production bullet makers (military arsenals included) sell bad lots with discounts to retailers. That's what you got.

Remember they shoot near zero MOA as they leave the barrel.

 

[Axis II]

BTW, bullet length should not affect COAL should it? One bullet longer than the other should simply be seated deeper and the COAL be the same? Unless that is ~ your die seating stem is touching bullets in different places as it pushes them down I suppose. . . Your die is locked down tight?

die is locked tight and the stem just touches past the tip of the bullet. length was out of wack, weight was 54-59gr I had one that hit 59.1. measure the middle of the bullet and got variances in that too. I was just going to load them up and give to a buddy for an AR but reading some reviews they said the canellure was in the wrong place and couldn't be crimped right. I figured seeing how cabelas was so nice to return them and then put them in the bargain cave I would go with something a bit better so I grabbed a 100pc fmj-bt hornady seeing how I got 3 in one hole the last time.

 

[Doublehelix]

Not sure if this applies to this discussion or not, but I just loaded some 124 gr. 9mm plated Berry's RN bullets, and I weighed a bunch before loading them, and they were all within 0.2 gr., and most were within 0.1 gr, with at least half being dead nuts on at 124 gr. I think I weighed about 30-40 bullets total. This was a much better result than I expected with these bullets.

I did not measure them, although now you got me to thinking!!! I will do that next time for sure.

 

[Dog Soldier]

I use the little "Orphan" bullets. They are fired in a M-4 .223 which is not a match rifle. If you need bullets of match quality don't shop the bargain Cave at Cabela's.

 

[Axis II]

Not sure if this applies to this discussion or not, but I just loaded some 124 gr. 9mm plated Berry's RN bullets, and I weighed a bunch before loading them, and they were all within 0.2 gr., and most were within 0.1 gr, with at least half being dead nuts on at 124 gr. I think I weighed about 30-40 bullets total. This was a much better result than I expected with these bullets.

I did not measure them, although now you got me to thinking!!! I will do that next time for sure.

I guess I could have dealt with the length if it had been a little off but that spread was crazy and when that one bullet hit the 59gr mark I said yep see ya. could have been my scale or the bullet but all the sizing really ticked me off. say I measured where the canelure is at .say 224 it was 223,223.5 224, 225. seems like someone was hitting the sauce during production.

 

[Axis II]

I use the little "Orphan" bullets. They are fired in a M-4 .223 which is not a match rifle. If you need bullets of match quality don't shop the bargain Cave at Cabela's.

they put them in the bargain cave after I returned them, LOL. I got these off the shelf in the reloading section. I wasn't expecting super accurate rounds just something to knock off wood blocks but when I loaded 5 and the OAL was all over the place I started measuring. I measured about 10-15 hornady fmj-bt this morning and all fell within the same specs. length of bullet was .734,.735, .736 consistently. berrys went as high as .745.

 

[jmorris]

I order my "blasting"/3 gun bullets in 6000 count boxes from Hornady these days just so I know I am always getting the same thing. However, I used to get 223 55 gn FMJ bullets from Berry's back when they were $35/1000. That has been awhile so things may have changed but they only made plated bullets and bought jacketed bullets and resold them. Sometimes you would get some with cannelures, other times they would be smooth. Different ogives as well, kind of a Forest Gump of 55gn FMJ, you never knew what you were going to get.

 

[spitballer]

Your post reveals a lot about economy-class FMJ's but it also reveals a lot about Cabela's customer service (that was righteous of them to take them back with no questions asked). I don't use FMJ's these days but it seems to me there are quality differences among them just as there are quality differences among other bullets, and there may be an option to 'dress' the cheaper ones with a metplat uniformer or file or both, to make them more uniform in weight at least.

 

[Axis II]

Your post reveals a lot about economy-class FMJ's but it also reveals a lot about Cabela's customer service (that was righteous of them to take them back with no questions asked). I don't use FMJ's these days but it seems to me there are quality differences among them just as there are quality differences among other bullets, and there may be an option to 'dress' the cheaper ones with a metplat uniformer or file or both, to make them more uniform in weight at least.

it kind of shocked me they did take them back. talking to a few other shooters they said they wouldn't stand for that so I just called them up and said hey the length and weight varies a lot can I bring these back. went to CS and the manager came over and I explained it to her and she was like yeah that's not right return them. I usually just suck it up and deal with stuff like that but when it comes to things that go bang im not chancing it. she said they return everything in like 60days unless its powder or primers. I read so many things saying berry's buys them from hornady and when I opened the box I said yeah that's definitely not a hornady bullet. the base looked way different and the canelure was like 3x bigger. my one buddy makes fun of me a lot calling me hornady fan boy but I learned awhile ago after spending a lot of money on factory ammo that wouldn't shoot for crap and then found v max for a little more to shoot very well that if its not broke don't fix it. hes one of those that if the ammo goes bang hes happy. for me shooting woodchucks and coyotes across a bean field I need something that will perform.

 

[horsey300]

BTW, bullet length should not affect COAL should it? One bullet longer than the other should simply be seated deeper and the COAL be the same? Unless that is ~ your die seating stem is touching bullets in different places as it pushes them down I suppose. . . Your die is locked down tight?

It's not just the LENGTH, it's the shape too! A btip or vmax or Berger vld all hit my Lee seater at different points on the bullet itself due to the difference in profile thus creating a different coal. Bullets of the same shape and length shouldn't cause problems, thus it seems that not only were these bullets off in weight/length their ogive was not uniform either.

 

[jmorris]

I went out to where the dusty boxes live and dug up some old stock.

The early bullets they used (center) seem to have been "imported" 55 gn FMJ and were accurate, no cannelure and not the same shape as "normal" 55 gn FMJ's. I ran a lot of these before they changed.

Later they sold what seemed to be "seconds" or what I call "I guess ok for playing with machine guns" projectiles that are the kind of bullet that gives FMJ's a bad reputation (left) but the box looked better (insert roll eyes face here). Looks like the die that formed the BT was beyond its service life. If I owned Berry's they would have been sold in a white box simply marked BULLETS without having the company name on it.

The one on the right is the Hornady 55gn FMJ's I use now if I want an accurate and cheaper projectile.

 

[Dog Soldier]

onihunter, Yes a funny ending. I was in Sydney last month. That entire town depends on Cabela's. They are shutting down and laying off hundreds of people. The New owners will likely end the Cabela's brand.
I have long suspected these Berry's .223 FNJ bullets are rejectes from Hornady.

 

[Axis II]

onihunter, Yes a funny ending. I was in Sydney last month. That entire town depends on Cabela's. They are shutting down and laying off hundreds of people. The New owners will likely end the Cabela's brand.
I have long suspected these Berry's .223 FNJ bullets are rejectes from Hornady.

I guess I should have worded that different. I took it as you saying I should not have purchased bargain cave bullet but when I returned them they said we are putting these in the bargain cave. this goes to show us that cabelas has no clue about anything they sell. had this been another store im sure berrys would have got their bullets back instead of sticking someone else with funky bullets just to make a buck.

I have heard the Basspro buyout for over a year and never believed it until it happened. Cabelas went from a family owned business to a huge corporate greed store and I'm sure with the Cabelas family getting up there in age they decided to sell. I despise BP as all their house brand is complete crap IMO. I have a gander mountain 10min away from my local Cabelas and gander is now closing stating Cabelas put them out of business. well when you can walk into Cabelas, Fin feather fur, Dicks, and Dunham's all in a 20min radius and all blow Ganders prices out of the water. for instance gander sells 55gr hornady v max bullets 100pc for about $24. That's about $4-5 markup than cabelas.

I have never purchased cabelas brand anything until a week or so ago and I can see the quality but they have a nice price tag on it. Guy at work said he was there and was looking at Cabelas brand work boots for almost $300. I have worn danner, timberland and a few others around the $100-150 range and they last 2 years or so. for $300 I better get 5-6 years out of them. I looked at hunting clothes last night and $175 for a pair of bibs that are the same as my cheaper version. I think cabelas has gotten to big for their britches on some things but people like the fancy mountain, fish tank, and taxidermy so they flock to it. I like my local mom and pop stores where I don't have to take a number to get help or wander all over the store for it either.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Ohihunter, We went over to Cabela's in Sydney ever year after X Mass. They had the store in the old John Deere Building. Their money came from the Credit cards and their bank. The Cabela's own the 3rd largest bank in Nebraska. I am not familiar with Bass Pro. Thanks for your information.

 

[Axis II]

Ohihunter, We went over to Cabela's in Sydney ever year after X Mass. They had the store in the old John Deere Building. Their money came from the Credit cards and their bank. The Cabela's own the 3rd largest bank in Nebraska. I am not familiar with Bass Pro. Thanks for your information.

cabelas finances all their credit cards from what I was told and now that bass pro purchased them they use capital one or someone else so I can see the loss of jobs. Bass pro is just like cabelas you cant purchase a piece of hunting clothes unless its marked redhead-bass pro brand and I have Walmart hunting clothes that are better material for less. bass pro is all about the fishing, boating, and fancy outdoor clothing. my local bass pro is 3/4 under armor clothes and the rest bass pro brand. if bass pro starts converting cabelas stores we are screwed.

 

[Dog Soldier]

Ohunter, True, Cabela's profits and sales dropped the past few years. The Credit Cards have provided the profits.

 

[Bart B.]

For those thinking rimless bottleneck round's bullet jump to rifling is controlled by bullet length or cartridge OAL, it's not.

It's controlled by case shoulder reference diameter to bullet ogive diameter about .002" smaller than the barrels groove diameter to that of the chamber. Most cartridges can have as much as .004" spread in that dimension. Normally, the case head is not against the bolt face when fired; it's shoulder is hard against the chamber shoulder and a little head clearance in thousandths is between bolt face and case head.

 

[jmorris]

The case head is not against the bolt face when fired; it's hard against the chamber shoulder.

I think I am going to need a drawing of that one. I have always thought the shoulder was at the opposite end of the chamber than that of the case head.

I think you might be saying the case shoulder is pushed against the chamber shoulder when fired.?

 

[Bart B.]

jmorris, thanks for the grammar errors alert. Fixed it.

 

[spitballer]

Good FMJ bullet photos jmorris, thx - clearly illustrates quality issues and choices faced by reloaders but also those involved in the procurement of worthy materiel.