Bullet mold recommendations

[Diggler]

Hi guys,

I'd like to start casting my .45 ACP bullets so I can afford to feed my 1911 as much as it wants. I'm thinking that I might as well go with a 180 gr. bullet since it will give me more bang per pound of lead, probably in a SWC configuration.

What are your feelings on the different brands of mold makers, especially Lyman, Lee and Saeco? Anything I should stay away from, or quality features to look for?

Thanks...

 

[HSMITH]

I HIGHLY recommend a Lee 2 cavity mold as your first mold. You can pick them up on ebay for as little as 15 bucks shipped, and you can get new ones from Midway for $20 or less.

Casting is not for everyone, and I'd advise you not to spend a lot of money on it until you know what you are getting into. Bare minimum equipment to start is fine, get your feet wet in casting before jumping in. The other 'problem' most people run into is a source of lead. Make sure you can get lead cheaply, a lot of guys end up paying as much for the lead as they would for commercial cast bullets. Granted they can tailor the bullets to the loads and guns used, but it is an awful lot of work if you can't save money.

Once you get into casting if you decide you like it I would recommend a Lee 6 cavity mold or an RCBS/Lyman/Saeco 4 cavity. The production rates are fantastic taking a lot of the work out of it. The large molds take some skill to operate, but it is something you will pick up easily after casting for a bit with a 2 cavity.

I find the aluminum blocks to be more forgiving for temperature and easier to use in general, and wouldn't recommend an iron block to anyone just starting. If I had started with iron molds I likely would have quit soon after starting. They aren't hard to use but can be pretty sensitive to temperature and tempo needed to maintain the temperature. I would guess that my reject bullet rate is 3 times higher with the iron molds.....

Take the above for what it's worth to you. I've only cast 40-50K bullets and am far from an expert in casting, but so far it is saving me a TON of money and I shoot a lot because of it. I shoot in excess of 2000 rounds per month on average for the same cost as a couple hundred prior to casting. My gun budget went way up when my ammo cost went way down, that is a WIN WIN situation to me!!!

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Casting for 45acp

I have sold thousands of the founding California-Saeco company molds that because of their quality and price are only used by top competitors or by men who seriously want to win the medals and trophies. I have taught bulletcasting for years and also operated a reloading and bulletcasting business besides being a police weapons instructor and competitor.

Lee has started a lot of reloaders and casters and you get what you pay for.

I would not recommend your use of a 180 grain bullet for your 45 unless you have an expensive ramped and relieved, gunsmith accurized weapon. The standard 45 was developed to fire a 230 gr round nose bullet and combat users have made the 200 gr SWC H&G 068 bullet design popular. H&G made only molds and they were from 4 to ten cavities and I have 20 of them in my collection. I would recommend that you start with the 200 grain bullet I just spoke about which is good for the 25 yard and 50 yard range depending on the quality of your weapon. It is also popular for the combat shooting sport.

Use of a 185 grain or smaller bullet deserves one of the more acurate weapons for 25 yard bullseye shooting.

The attachment is a pic of what it looks like.

 

[tgs]

.45acp lead cast bullets

There are good books on getting started and you need to find on. Too many tips and every tip helps. I agree that a 200gr swc or 230 lrn. easy to mold. might as sart with a six cavity mold. If you start off getting good one you get a lot of them (then its just same if your having a bad sart. TEMP is really the biggest problem I ran into. Not hot enough. 750F and start pouring is what I wasa finally told and I was off to the races. I started out at about 650 and had problems. Lees aluminum molds can get real hot fast and its good to have two molds you can alternate but when you get the hang of it they can work fine.
Dont get discouraged and be sure you have a thermometer. If you too hot the bullet will look frosty. too cold the mold wont fill good. Do some research and find some references "LYMAN CAST BULLET HANDBOOK" is one of many really good references. And dont breath the fumes!

 

[BluesBear]

In my opinion the 200 gr Hensley & Gibbs #68 is the finest cast bullet you can fire from a .45.

Almost every manufacturer makes a version of this bullet.

Quite often you can fine a genuine H&G 68 on eBay.

Get one, you'll never be sorry.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

H&G VS Calif-Saeco

I have a post regarding the difference in workmanship between an H&G 8 cavity mold (Which I possess) and a California Saeco and a Redding-Saeco 4 cavity mold in the H&G 068 design.

H&G made only Pistol Molds from 4 to ten cavities mainly used for gun clubs and police departments needing a high volume of bullets to be loaded in their Star Progressive Reloaders.

The California Saeco Company 1947-1979 made Pistol, Rifle, Black Powder Thompson Center Maxiball and Round Ball Molds, they patented the Saeco Lead Hardness Tester, Luber-Sizer 1,000 Watt Cast Iron Lead Melting Pots, Neck Sizing Rifle Dies, The most accurate Powder Measures made.

The Redding Reloading Tool Co. makes well known reloading tools and as the 4th to have the Saeco name as the founder died makes Reloading Saeco molds, Luber, and Lead Hardness Testers of aluminum.

To judge the differences in the quality of the molds of each of the companies you must possess examples of each of them and the visual differences are obvious and the preciseness of mold construction can be observed and felt and the differences in the consistency of bullet weights can be measured on an accurate scale.

My rating in consistent 068 bullet weights produced are:
#1. Ca.-Saeco Co.
#2. Redding-Saeco Co.
#3. H&G-Ballisticast Co.
#4. H&G Co.

Ca-Saeco is #1 because of the unheard of sending mold blocks and sprues out of the shop to a Space age machine shop to have the bottoms of the sprues and the tops of the mold blocks to be perfectly mated together by a process called "Blanchard Grinding" and combined with the sprue swinging from the center of the block, identical weight bullets are cut off and created in a scissors style handle unlike the traditional H&G nutcracker style handle where bullet weights increase the further they are from the hinge where the H&G sprue is attached.

The owner of Ca-Saeco passed away in 1979 but the thousands of his most accurate ever molds are still in use as they are multi-lifetime molds and can be found on e-bay when their owners pass on also.

For those thinking H&G are the greatest I will be listing my H&G collection on E-Bay.

Paul Fitz Jones

 

[JA]

My vote has to go with Lee tumble lube molds.
http://www.leeprecision.com/catalog/browse.cgi?1078680398.942=bullmol2.html
The best price on them.
http://www.fmreloading.com/cgi-bin/...&Category_Code=45+acp,+Colt,+480,+and+500+Mag
I started out with a Lyman mold but the iron it is made from really slows down your casting waiting for it to cool down between fillings. The Lee aluminum molds are much faster as they disapate heat faster. I used Lee 2 cavity molds for muzzle loader balls/bullets and pistol bullets. Till I broke down and bought a 9mm tumble lube 6 cavity mold. Man,talk about easy to use and produce mass quanities of bullets. Lubing was not a chore any more just dump the bullets in a bowl squirt with Lee lube and shake/stir. Then cover the kitchen table with wax paper and set them out on it to dry overnight. Lube dries hard so no sticky mess loading them or $100's spent on a lube/sizer tool,dies,punches,and the exspencive sticks of lube.

 

[Edward429451]

The Lee moulds heat up & cool down quick, granted. Their handles are junk though. Tried a half dozen Lee moulds for the first time recently and cracked three sets of handles. The technique is the same I always use with Lyman moulds and I've never cracked any of them. I'm thinking of trying to make new handles for them a little more substantial from dowels maybe.

Do yurself a favor and don't buy a single cavity mould. Production rate is discouraging.

On the iron vs alum issue...I have a larger reject rate from alum than with iron?? The alum moulds had a higher wrinkle rate b/c they cool down too quickly (the wind was blowing), the irons would eventually overheat and give out frosted bullets which I generally do not reject.

It was challenging to cast with the Lee 405 45/70 mould. As the one poster indicated, tempo must be right or the pour will be reject. Kicking up the heat a little helped for a more fluid pour, but created difficulty with the other moulds overheating too quickly. Fun fun fun.

 

[tgs]

Lots of Good Molds

I think all in all bucks spent has to be considered so there are gives and takes with all of them. Practice it really what I have found plays into a lot. A bottom pour spout is very helpful though Ive never tried to ladel either! A windy day as mentioned can be annoying and I know the thermostat on my Lee 10lb bottom pour must constantly be adjusted as the volumn of melt is increased and decreased.
I hope this summer to experiment with an iron mold but probably the Lee aluminums will still be what i use most often. I have a lyman .44 mag that ill try.
Broken handles
Curious what were you doing with them?
Good flux helps a lot to but a chunk of lube does it to.

 

[Edward429451]

Curious what were you doing with them?

You mean me, to break them? Just casting my usual technique. I think the Lyman handle stubs are longer than the Lee's giving more support to the handles. I think the Lee's transfered the slight squeeze pressure more to the wood. Having the wood slightly under pressure while knocking the sprueplate open didn't help it any either.

The Lee moulds were free to me so I'll continue to patch em up and use them but if/when I get other moulds, I'm going to stick with Lyman moulds & handles. Less overall problems in my experiance.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Count me as another fan of the Lee Molds -- I have half a dozen or more, including a couple of 6-cavity molds (one for the 148-grain .358 Wadcutter and one for the 230 grain tumble lube .45 roundnose.)

And yes, you CAN break the handles. My advice is invest in a couple of hose clamps and use them to reinforce the handles.

 

[ClarkEMyers]

My experience with CA Saeco was perfect

The first mold I ever owned was the CA Saeco in #130 - 4 cavity. The first bullet I ever cast with it from a bottom pour Lyman 10 pound pot was visually perfect. I didn't go hunting for CA Saeco it was just what was available at the time from Gil Hebard - all the new Saeco was CA Saeco and the 10 pound pot was the choice - I'd surely go with a 20 pound today. At the time a Weston thermometer from an industrial supply place was it for temperature monitoring too but it wasn't hard to get a feel for temperature and consistency with fluxing and stirring and all.

I did use a target gun for gallery pistol but I think with appropriate overall length the #130 will feed any place anything will feed - watch neck tension on short seating though. The load was of course -ta ta - 3.5 Bullseye and Alox/Beeswax lube. I haven't shot that combination indoors in years and I don't think I ever will again - at least in quantity, maybe one shot and leave the range?

As some others might say, I find midrange loads are just that, and full range loads and bullets aren't the same. Just as folks say sooner or later you'll have a Dillon why wait so too I'd say get a big pot for alloying and casting ingots a 20 pound bottom pour pot for casting bullets and the best mold(s) you can afford. Ebay might be your friend coming and going, don't take my word for it.

When I was into it heavily - I weighed every single one of my match bullets on a balance beam scale but I had more time than money and it wasn't hard to get a lot of 50 bullets that weighed the same within the limits of my scale (the days when I knew every lot of 50 cases if not every case by first name) - I never could get the early Lee molds to work nearly so well - perhaps they required different habits?

 

[Edward429451]

And yes, you CAN break the handles. My advice is invest in a couple of hose clamps and use them to reinforce the handles.

Yeah, that's exactly what I did. I stock them on the truck for plumbing & HVAC uses, barely slowed me down but still frustrating.

A little side issue that I noted when reading this thread...Am I the only one to spell moulds correctly here?

You all are fined one buck for missing this, send to me.

I'm off to load ammo...now was that 18.0 grains of 2400, or 18.0 grams?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------
A little side issue that I noted when reading this thread...Am I the only one to spell moulds correctly here?
-------------------------------------------------

You are. I spelled it "mould" for a long time, and found myself a minority of one in most discussions about casting bullets.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Handle making

I did some research on possible handle material for my H&G mold collection of which only two had the original handles and two had home made handles and the rest with the wood gone. I found some 1 inch diameter really hard material and since I had to set up my shop to create the handles I thought I may as well do a few. It was surprising the price of dowels. I cut them to length, sanded the ends, drilled them to the right depth and remembered not long ago a discussion on handle making where it was mentioned if you use a 100% silicone (RTF)? it will dry inside the wood dowel. The hole I drilled was round and the H&G steel handle has a flat on the top and bottom of it and somehow the silicone can dry in the wood but not inside of plastic tubing says an engineer friend.

Two of my home made handles had a ring of aluminum around the front which corresponded with some electrical coundit material but I did not need ten feet of it which was the for sale length. I have had the habit of seeing so many H&G molds wrapped with electrical tape that I thought why not use the tape on them to begin with? So have always done so when I made replacement handles. I would check with an electrician for some scrap ends of tubing to reduce the mold end of your handle to slip the ring on to it then tape the whole thing and the Home Made Handle can last from then on. I have seen some mold handles where men have wrapped them with electrical wiring with or without the plastic covering or plastic or metal strapping. I got to working away and made 24 sets of handles which was more than I really needed but it was fun.

This information might apply to men needing handles for their Lee or other brands of molds also.

Redding-Saeco uses Walnut handles and probably most custom mold makers do also. Ca-Saeco used patterned walnut from remnants of rifle gunstock making. I bought 5 extra pairs of wood for any needed wood replacements if the grain of the walnut ran wrong and I still have three sets of them.

 

[Paul "Fitz" Jones]

Spelling is subject to change

The British originated our language and the Americans have changed the original British spellings during our history.
Colour VS color. Moulds vs Molds. There can be mold in the bathroom, under the sink and on the roof where ever there is too much moisture. Look at the spellings on the labels of the chemicals for killing your offending mold or mould?

Our American dictionary has added words, abbreviations and spelling variations that were unheard of for previous generations. Our language is constantly evolving.

Calif-Saeco spelled it wity a "U" and I chose not too and they never objected to my success. Ballisti-Cast Company currently leaves the "U" out. Maybe I started a trend?

Having sold thousands of molds and having discussed many many thousands of molds think of all the typing I have saved over decades of mold discussions my leaving the "U" out of a mould has saved my pointing finger.

So I spell it the way I please and you can do the same and neither of us are right or wrong Deal?

 

[Tiny]

tgs ... you really need the mold hot in orde to cast quality bullets ... if it's not hot the accuracy plummits on about 1 outta 4 rounds and if it's way too cool the bullets will even on rare occasions seperate ... I didn't think it was all that important since the 45 is a slow round but I was wrong ... shooting fmj's at pop cans sittin on a stump out back I can hit it 9 outta 10 shots with the fmj's ... with the wrinkled bullets I'd have a flier that would go what looks like 2 ft off at 45 yds ... I thought it was just me flinching or something but after I started casting bullets with a super hot mold with no wrinkles and my lee pot set on #8 which is just over 750 degrees it's improved my accuracy with cast bullets to as good as the fmj's. I've got between 2000 to 3000 wrinkled up bullets I gotta melt back down and recast also ... looking forward to that.

the problem with my lee 6 cavity mold is it don't have a handle for one side and it's hard to work with when it gets really hot ... I've found that the best bullets come when it takes the overrun about 3 to 4 seconds to harden and even with thick welding gloves you can't handle the mold for more than a second when it gets that hot.

I'd suggest getting a mold that has handles on both sides and always cull your bullets hard ... if they have any wrinkles in them at all melt them back down and inspect every bullet. use good bullet lube and wheel weights seem to be the best source for quality bullet lead and if ya know a gas station owner you can get those free... be sure to read the articles on this url about bullet casting ... that should help a lot ... lot of good info there http://www.real-guns.com/archives/newarc.htm

I use liquid alox to lube my bullets and it works really well and it's made by leeprecision.com

the lee 6 cavity "moulds" only have a handle on one side ... I plan on making a handle for it but haven't figured out just how I'm going to do it yet. there's not much material there that is sturdy enough to tap and die to screw a handle bolt into unless I use a really small bolt

 

[Edward429451]

Our American dictionary has added words, abbreviations and spelling variations that were unheard of for previous generations. Our language is constantly evolving.

I know. I just thought it odd that the board grammer police didn't write this one up so thought I would just to give you guys a little hell for it!

The english language is weird that way. IIRC, I read somewhere that in english, you can spell new words any way you want to and it'd be correct, even if it was confusing. My spelling sucks comparitivly (!), but some stuff sticks.

Thanks for the handle making tips, I'll put that info to use as soon as I find the time.

 

[cheygriz]

Isn't it great to have someone with the knowledge and experience of "Fitz" on the board?

Sir, I wish we had more like you! I consider myself very knowledgeable and highly experienced in the realm of bullet casting, but I'm not anywhere near being in your league. Thank you for posting your experiences. We all benefit from your posts.

 

[Tiny]

spelling it as "mold" anywhere but in the UK is improper and would be considered as mis-spelled anywhere but the UK ... "mould" is specifically a UK spelling and just because it's from the UK doesn't make it correct for everywhere else. If you look up mould in the dictionary it'll refer you to mold and tell you that mould is specifically a british spelling. so, mold is correct in the US ... mould is correct in the UK

 

[BluesBear]

Well, that certainly made it as clear as mud.

 

[MaterDei]

Correction

Nay BluesBear you should have said,

"Well, that certainly made it as clear as moud"

 

[kernal_panic]

Having started in casting myself a few months ago i have many suggestions.

1. buy a lyman master casting kit. its got everything but a sizeing die and top punch and the mold. they cost $120 from midsouth

2. DO NOT BUY A LEE 2 CAVITY MOLD!!!!!!!!! I bought 2 to start with. both were junk. Hunt around on ebay and grab a 2 cav lyman or rcbs. lee six cav mold handles will fit the lymans and with grinding the rcbs molds too.

all in all you'll spend $175-200 but thats to get everything you need to do a 1st rate job. you can go cheaper there are ways to cut corners but its not worth it. i know i tried.

 

[Intel6]

Tiny,

The Lee 6 cavity moulds do not come with the mould handles like they do on the 2 cavity. You have to buy the handles seperate and install the mould on them. The handle that comes on the 6 cavity mould is the sprue cutter handle and is there so you don't have to cut the sprue by whacking with a stick or mallet whixh would probably damage the mould.

 

[R.H. Lee]

I have a Saeco #068 4 cavity .45 acp with handles I would sell if anyone's interested. Also a 4 cavity .38/.357 swc with handles. Have no idea of worth.