Bullet questions for a BP pistol

[Grey Morel]

I'm looking at a BP pistol for hunting purposes.

I have a gun in mind, but I don't know if I want it in 45 or 50 caliber. Regardless of which caliber I get, I'm not entirely clear on what bullets it will stabilize; this is only my second BP gun, and its been a few years since my last.

The pistol in question has an 16.25" barrel, with a 1-18" twist. This is the same for both 45 and 50 cal... Obviously the velocity will be lower than the 24" inch tubes on most rifles, but those long tubes usuall use a 1-18" twist or similar.

Since the twist in this pistol is so much faster than a rifle, will it still stabilize a conical bullet?

 

[robhof]

The twist rate in my DW 357max is 1-16 and it stabilizes 200gr lead flat nosed bullets out to 200yds just fine, however, my ROA has about a 1-14 twist and shoots round balls much better than the conicals. Usually balls take a slower twist, but my ROA does best with the ball.

 

[arcticap]

It sounds like you're considering the Pedersoli Bounty Hunter.
Many pistols with even shorter barrels will stabilize conicals.
But since every conical and load is different some will perform better than others.

 

[Grey Morel]

Thanks for the clear answer 'articcap'!

I have asked this question elsewhere, and gotten a lot of replies... muddled off-topic replies. No offence 'robhof', but your Dan Wesson 357 Maximum is apples to oranges.

On one hand, I have people telling me their 9" 50 cal is the Hammer of Thor on deer out to 50 yards.... and two posts later I have people telling me a 16" gun of the same caliber is "totally inadequate", or that "its only accurate within a few FEET."

This will only be my second BP gun, and people are confusing me with seemingly contrarian partisan logic. All I wanted to know is whether this gun will stabalize a conical (thanks for the answer articap), and if its an adequate 30 yard deer gun.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Hate to confuse things but there is another factor to consider. Most Conicals require shallow fast twist rifling to operate properly. A side lock pistol barrel can have fast twist deep rifling for round balls. Those who say it is unethical to hunt deer with muzzleloader pistols are partially clueless and partially right.

A large ball does alot of damage even at subsonic speeds. While too many folks don't develop the proficiency a pistol requires, there is nothing wrong with using one assuming you are reasonably accurate. (too many hunters aren't reasonably accurate even with a rifle.) Being able to place a shot is the first key and having sufficient shock power is second. If it is only to be for follow up shots, it doesn't matter much.

The larger the caliber (bore diameter) the faster a given amount of powder will burn before the bullet exits the muzzle. Therefore a 45 cal, which may be even harder to find concicals for, won't burn the powder as fast as a 50. The 50 would seem better suited. However, those modern concicals pretty much require a spot on .504 barrel. If you have deep rifling there will be too much blow by through the grooves. The powder burn rate for a given length barrel is also different between PRB's and concicals. For the ft lbs of energy, the conical is a slightly better consumer of powder in short barrels. It will still arc like a high school algebra parabola.

 

[Grey Morel]

Good insight Zimmer.

I'm not a hunter primarily: I'm a handgun shooter first, a handgun collector second, and a hunter on the side.

Hunting here is not particularly challenging as it is: last time I was out, I crawled within 30 yards of two grazing does - i could have taken them with literally ANY firearms.

Thus why my questions are mostly technical.

 

[arcticap]

Deep rifling is something that can be overcome by using an over powder wad or OP card as a gas check, or a powdered filler.
And plenty of folks shoot conicals and/or sabots from barrels with deep rifling.
Then there's sizing dies to properly size conicals to better fit the barrel as well as outfits that make custom conicals that are sized on request.
If that's not enough, there's a whole new generation of precision made bore size conicals made in whole or part from copper. Some of these are minie style with a hollow base to grab the rifling better.
There are so many options for shooting conicals nowadays that something is bound to work.
There's also sabots to utilize .40/10mm bullets which opens up a new class of bullet weights and profiles.
It's largely only a matter of testing and personal preference to find which ones will work satisfactorily.

 

[Grey Morel]

It's like your reading my mind!

Pedersolis recommended ball for this gun is .4902" - depending on patch thickness, the loaded projectile will be between .5002" & .5052" (10 & 15 thousandths patch respectively).

I was just eye-balling some .400" sabots that are .502"-.504" when loaded. Not only does this match the diameter of a patched ball VERY closely, but the weight of a 40 S&W bullet is within 3 grains of a round ball as well (180 Vs. 177). I am praying that these will shoot well, because it would simplify things SO much for me - I already have 180gr .400" hollow points stocked, because i load for several 40 S&W pistols.

I read an article where a guy chronographed a Pedersoli Bounty at 800fps with a 177gr round ball using 30grns Sandex, and 1,100 fps with a 370gr Maxi ball, using 60grns 3FG. Am I correct in assuming that a lighter projectile over the same charge would result in lower pressure, and higher velocity as it does in smokeless arms, or would I loose velocity as a result of lower pressure?

 

[zimmerstutzen]

to an extent, there is the for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Depending on powder charge, a round ball can be faster and accordingly have less short range arc, but loses velocity faster due to air ressistance down range. Also depending on powder charge a conical moves slower, has more arc, but carries it's energy further down range. So it would seem that the powder exerts the same energy and the weight of the projectile determines the velocity. EXCEPT that as the powder burns and the heavier conical bullet's inertia causes it to start moving more slowly, there is a beginning point with the powder burning at the same rate but in a smaller space, hence there is a higher pressure spike, more pressure can but doesn't necessarily lead to a higher velocity than a straight mathematical bullet weight to powder ratio would calculate. As a result a heavier concical bullet can under some circumstances obtain higher velocities than a round ball in the same length barrel.

 

[Grey Morel]

Good to know; I figured it would depend on charge, bullet weight and powder type.

 

[arcticap]

Sabots are very tight fitting which would also help to develop consistent velocity and performance.
And there are also heavier .40 caliber bullets that weigh 200 grains.
The penetration of a bullet having the same or close to the same weight as a round ball should be better because it would have a better sectional density due to it's smaller diameter and longer length.
And most bullets usually do expand by about 33% with adequate velocity.