Bullet seating? 223 cannelure 55gr sp

[Paddy]

Strange that the cannelure on these 55gr hornady is not really where I'm expecting it to be when seated. So I decided to do an experiment by allowing one of my guns to seat a bullet. I sized it lightly enough that the neck was snug but not too snug and started a bullet. Then I sharpie coated the whole end, and chambers it to see how far back the rifling would push the bullet, and figure that if I took another .015 or so deeper seat than what it came out, I'd have minimal jump to the lands, and all would be good. Only problem is it didn't seem to push it back at all and I don't see any rifling groove start indications on the bullet. Am I doing this test the wrong way or? When seated in a trimmed case, these bullets measure out about 2.210 coal when the cannelure is looking happy.

 

[emptybrass]

I am so new at reloading that I just loaded my first .223 two days ago and have not been to the range to try them out. Below is a screenshot of my log which shows the round as well with the specs for the Hornady bullet I used. Not sure if it is the same bullet as you used or not. Maybe this helps.

Screenshot_2014-02-23-20-57-05 by Randy Digby, on Flickr

 

[oldillini]

I too am new to reloading (and hopefully someone with sage advice can chime in), but sounds like the throat length is such that your bullet is not hitting the rifling. Think that is the way it should be. Don't think you want the bullet to hit the rifling. Also don't want excessive throat length because you will have that excessive jump.

If I am off base, I hope someone corrects me because I need to learn more than the little I already know.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

What kind of rifle? Bolt? AR? If AR, just load em to magazine length.

 

[Purpkw]

I loaded some 55 gr fmj- bt w/c hornady with h4198 at 18.4 gr at a col of 2.209
Today , fired them this afternoon they went down range with good accuracy ( not counting the shooter) . Hope this helps

 

[saitek]

you should use a overall length gauge to check the length of the chamber with the bullet being used .http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/7257 http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/7186 shell adapter
i assume you are going to single load them ,otherwise load them to correct install length to fit the magizne other wise they will be to long .i just went through this with 55 gr hornady ,i actually installed to the canuler to crimp .

 

[Reloadron]

Strange that the cannelure on these 55gr hornady is not really where I'm expecting it to be when seated. So I decided to do an experiment by allowing one of my guns to seat a bullet. I sized it lightly enough that the neck was snug but not too snug and started a bullet. Then I sharpie coated the whole end, and chambers it to see how far back the rifling would push the bullet, and figure that if I took another .015 or so deeper seat than what it came out, I'd have minimal jump to the lands, and all would be good. Only problem is it didn't seem to push it back at all and I don't see any rifling groove start indications on the bullet. Am I doing this test the wrong way or? When seated in a trimmed case, these bullets measure out about 2.210 coal when the cannelure is looking happy.

You are doing it correctly. It isn't unusual to find rifles with a long lead or a deep throat. I've seen plenty of them, especially Remington bolt guns. You make no mention of the type rifle?

Ron

 

[gamestalker]

Nothing really wrong with how your going about it. But if your working with an AL action, there is no need to chase the lands, just seat so they fit the magazine and feed reliably.

As for how I do it, I start a bullet long and then chamber check while seating in .010" increments until it doesn't make contact with the lands. At that point I can fine tune it.

FYI, most bullets that aren't of match grade quality will have as much as .010" inconsistency at the olgive. This is why I work in .010" increments, rather than trying to get down to the .001" range. And even match grade aren't precision enough in most instances to produce .001" olgive consistency.

GS

 

[medalguy]

Another "trick" I use for the 55 gr bullets which I shoot in my M16 is to use two seating dies in my Dillon press. The first seats the bullet about .025 short, then the second seater has a threaded rod replacing the seating plug, and this rod is locked to the exact length I want, which is a good fit to magazines. This way I get a straight seated bullet and made to the exact length every time. As gamestalker said, the ogive lengths vary all over the place. This I found out after loading a bunch of 55 gr bullets years ago. Some wouldn't load into the magazine.

 

[rg1]

At that length you definitely don't have enough bullet in the case. In two different popular name AR's for Hornady 55 FMJ's to touch the lands one had an oal at 2.370" and the other was 2.390" overall length. Now in my one bolt action .223 Rem to touch the lands the overall length was 2.246". Seat them to recommended lengths from 2.200" to 2.230" and you're most likely to not notice any accuracy improvements trying to seat longer especially in AR's.

 

[rcmodel]

Forget the freek'n lands!

Seat 55 grain FMJ standard length to the the cannulure and fogadabout it.

They are at best, very inaccurate bullets to begin with.
And you can't seat to the lands with them in most any .223 unless it's a match chambered target rifle in the second place.
With enough bullet shank in the case to give consistent start pressure in the third place.

Myself?
I wish whoever started this seat to the lands thing had their butt kicked for all the new reloader misunderstanding it causes.

Buy one box of standard length commercial Match or Varmint ammo and shoot four 5- shot groups with it.

If you can beat that with your seated to the lands 55 grain FMJ hand-loads, I'd like to see it done.
Just once!

Rc

 

[Paddy]

Cool thanks for all the assurances. It made sense as a practice to at least discover how much leade my weapons have, I hadn't considered that it might be too much to even measure using this method. Maybe I will try with some 62 grainers because I'm curious now! Saitek I do want the proper gauge but as yet one hasn't turned up on my bench. The two rifles I have for 223 right now are not AR but they are automatics, I just figured at 2.210 COAL that I was already much shorter than spec and that this might be a cause for concern although they seem to load and function just fine.

 

[Paddy]

I'm confused by the second rod, what is it and how does it seat without deforming the bullet? I like the 2 seater idea, and I've got extra stations right now!

 

[Walkalong]

That Hornady cannelured 55 Gr soft point did not shoot well for me. On the other hand, both their 50 and 55 Gr non cannelured soft points have shot very well for me.

Since you have proven they won't reach them, don't worry about getting them to the lands, and just seat them deep enough for good neck tension.

 

[ole farmerbuck]

That Hornady cannelured 55 Gr soft point did not shoot well for me. On the other hand, both their 50 and 55 Gr non cannelured soft points have shot very well for me.

Since you have proven they won't reach them, don't worry about getting them to the lands, and just seat them deep enough for good neck tension.

AC, do you think the cannelure was the problem or something else? Reason for asking is that I've read that cannelures dont affect accuracy.

 

[Paddy]

Dang I hope I can get good accuracy out of them because I bought a lot of them! They might end up being reduced power training rounds if not. I've been pushing them with 16.5gr sr4759 with decent results, however I haven't been able to really test them fully yet.

So anyone have a theory why hornady would put the cannelure so high on the bullet? Seems almost 1/16" higher than a comparable wt and shape bullet.

 

[moxie]

Just seat so the case mouth is centered in the cannelure. Press on and don't worry.

 

[Walkalong]

AC, do you think the cannelure was the problem or something else? Reason for asking is that I've read that cannelures dont affect accuracy.

Dunno, but I suspect the cannelure, or Hornady doesn't use the same quality jackets on them as they do the others. #2245 & #2265.

Jacket concentricity (even wall thickness/weight all around), is what makes a great jacket. The best are used for match bullets. They will have less wobble, just like a car tire that has been balanced. So, if the cannelure affects the weight distribution of a quality jacket, it will affect accuracy. Does it on that bullet? I do not know, but I do know it shot so so for me, and I have read where others had the same experience. I also know the 2245 & 2265 bullets shoot very well in my .222 Mag. Very, very well.

I'll load the rest of those for blasting/plinking ammo.

 

[Rule3]

I shoot the Hornday 55 w/c bullets as AR blasting ammo. They are not as bad as indicated.

If you trim your brass to the trim to length and then seat to the cannelure then yes. it will be a tad longer then exactly 2.200. I seat mine to just be able to see the top edge of the groove. They work fine.

I just came back from the range and shot 100 of them, In a AR they make decent groups, in my bolt rifle they are very small 1" or less. So I do not agree they are such terrible bullets.

 

[Paddy]

Good to know since I've got a few thou. if it can hit a zombies head at 10yds then I guess I'm okay.

 

[NWcityguy2]

I've shot at least 4-5 thousand of those bullets and seat them exactly as shown in the picture. I'm not seeing the confusion here. Either you have the neck tension you need and you are fine, or you don't and you need to crimp on the cannelure.

For someone to look at that picture and say there isn't enough of the bullet in the case is just speculation and doesn't further the conversation.

 

[rg1]

The common and trusted reloading advice is to always seat a bullet at "least" one caliber deep into the neck. At least .224" for 22 caliber bullets and at least .308" for 30 caliber bullets, etc. Being familiar with Hornady 55 FMJ's and SP's the marked bullet in the picture provided is seated to less than half of the recommended safe seating depth.

 

[moxie]

I've got one of those bullets and a case and what I see is that there's barely any of that bullet in the case, and most of it is the boattail itself which is angling away from the case wall. So there is very little actual bearing surface.

 

[Paddy]

Well the purpose of the pic was not to show a seated bullet, but rather my process for finding the leade on the chamber. That bullet does not have a caliber width of itself in the case, it has barely enough to hold to and then I was letting the rifling seat it the rest of the way so I could measure it, hopefully if the rifling didn't extract it and screw up my measurement. My surprise was that the rifling appears to be even further than that so I guess being 5.56 chambers and short bullets, that I will have to accept a long leade of undetermined distance, adjust crimp on the cannelure.

Thanks for all the help ladies and gentlemen, although likely mostly gentlemen.

 

[788Ham]

In my .223 bolt Remington, I shoot 52g. BTHP, in the 53g. MHP, I go by what the book says for COAL, crimp and blaze away. I've used these bullets for many years. In my loads, using 3031 powder, @ 100 yards, I can shoot 5 rds. into a spot the size of my little fingernail, I don't quiz myself about "off the lands", "Is it into the lead?" If I can shoot this well at my age, I'm happy. Quit worrying about the internet BS, and all the other mambajahambo someone dreams up. Use your calipers to measure the seating depth, crimp and get on with your life.