Bullet Setback for 9mm...

[Jim Watson]

"Same dozen or so cases?" Do they have the same head stamp? That should be a dozen pieces of scrap brass.
Loading mixed brass can be a hassle but you have to draw the line someplace.

Yes, I would bang "fully processed" cases through the resizing die. But then it is on a progressive loader and adds nothing to the work required. But then I have run new rifle brass through the sizing die, too.

 

[ballman6711]

Pull the setback bullet; reclaim the powder; carefully deprime the live primer while resizing the case; expand as usual (meaning just enough); load the powder; seat the bullet to proper OACL; et viola'! Bullet setback again! I have tons of time for this hobby, but not enough for rework--give it another go--try yet again--on the same dozen or so cases, just to have the outcome be the same...

IF it were me, I would look for something common with these dozen or so pieces of brass. Also, after disassembly of a live round I would make dummy rounds with these, so that when I take them apart again I wouldn't be dealing with the hassle of powder or primers.

I don't load 9mm, but I have noticed that when loading RP brass for my 45acp that it is thinner. You may want to see if your headstamps are the same in these problem rounds.

Also, if you could post a few pics, it would help us see what you're working with, and may let some one here see a possible problem.

chris

 

[gcleff11]

Thanks, Chris. I have no pictures, but I very much like your idea about making some dummy rounds. I will check the headstamps, too. Lemonade outta lemons...

 

[Suedenflames68]

I throw away all RP brass due to the thinner walls. Read lead guys like it tho.

Sounds like you may have already done it?.....but no need to deprime live primers. And potentially dangerous i would think. Just remove the decapping pin on your sizing die when you run em back through.

James

 

[gcleff11]

Depiming live ones isn't dangerous. Just gotta go slow and easy. I'm a bit frugal, too. I spent a good 10 mins searching for a large pistol primer that bounced off the bench (found it!). And that was not just because primers are getting scarce. I'm just wired that way. I grew up rather poor...

 

[Suedenflames68]

Just saying, its unnecessary. If you resizing the cases with a live primer still in it there is no need to deprime it.
You should be able to remove the pin from your resizing die that pushes the primer out . Then you dont have to reprime them all again.
So even if it's not dangerous, it still saves you time and work

James

 

[Jim Watson]

Depends on the equipment. Any live ammo I get in range pickup brass, I pull to salvage the components. My setup is such that I can decap, recap, and move along easier than I can take out the decapping pin. The (gently) decapped live primers get painted black and used in practice ammo. (Never had one fail to go off, but I still don't reuse them for match ammo.)

 

[gcleff11]

James, perhaps you didn't read that I am having definitive problems with some cases involving bullet setback. Why would I want a perfectly fine live primer in those? The primers are pulled and put in good cases. We just target shoot, so they are put back in the rotation so to speak. Can't find ANY small pistol primers that aren't magnum within a 300 mile radius of where we live, either. And the magnums will be gone in short order, too, I do believe...

 

[Suedenflames68]

Oh ok I misread I guess then. I thought you had discovered the problem was that they all just needed resized. My fault.

 

[LiveLife]

Can't find ANY small pistol primers that aren't magnum

MidwayUSA has Federal SP primers for $35/1000 - MidwayUSA has Federal SP primers in stock - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ponents-on-sale.707473/page-193#post-11542326

Free shipping on $49+ orders with FREESHIPPING0616 code - https://www.midwayusa.com/promo/FREESHIPPING0616

 

[gcleff11]

Limit 1 per Midway, due to high volume of orders. $11.99 shipping/$11.99 hazmat fee/$5.28 tax/$.45 roundup for the NRA--which of course I have no problem with. $65.00 total. That's a big jump from the $20+tax I was spending on 1000 Rem 1 1/2s. If I was in a very rural area, I would probably do it. Thanks for thinking of us in sleepy Eastern WA, though...

 

[LiveLife]

Thanks for thinking of us in sleepy Eastern WA, though...

We are planning to take a family trip to Mount Hood in Oregon for the month of September so if you are willing to make the drive, I can bring some Winchester/S&B SP primers.

We are also planning to check out Port Angeles/Sequim area after COVID-19 fervor for second house later in our retirement (Maybe over the winter). We are also planning a northern route trip next year on return trip from Niagara Falls and will be driving through eastern Washington but not sure if you can wait that long.

If you are unable to locate SP primers and interested in the brands I have (I have plenty), PM me and we can arrange a FTF.

And don't worry about cost as wife and I do a lot of "Pay It Forward" as part of our retirement activity and you would simply be our next PIF "victim".

 

[gcleff11]

Incredibly generous of you! I think we will be okay for the immediate future. But I did break down and buy 2000 magnum SPs on a trip to Western MT over the last holiday. Now....come September time frame, you might be getting that PM from me, haha. And thanks for payin' it forward...

 

[Texas10mm]

I read the descriptions for both fully processed and unprocessed brightfire cases. Shame on me for wanting to save a couple of bucks, and have the resizing die do what it is supposed to. And judging from some of the comments on this thread, there are those who would bang the 'fully processed' cases through the resizing die, regardless...

...

It goes in the collator, down the tube, and into the resizing die. That's the way the press is set up.

 

[gcleff11]

Interesting update. I went medieval on the bad cases with the sizing die w/primer punch removed, as James mentioned. I'm getting good bullets with the bad cases. I also reevaluated the instructions I've had for the resizer die. One thing that always bothered me about the cases--there was absolutely no resistance to whatever die I used? I have made many a good load to the specs given by the RCBS die instructions. However; now it seems to be an issue. At least I am reclaiming this brass that I had a problem with. As recommended, I removed the punch. For now, it's worked, but I had the die set waaaay lower than I normally do. If it keeps working, than I'm going for it. All the cases that I have shot rounds thru have been easy peasy after cleaning. My head is spinning...

 

[mjsdwash]

if you shot 180gr bullets, set back would be no issue, but in the normal range (you CAN get 180 bullets, but thats its own set of problems) it wont make a difference. Theres a good chance the cases you have are Federal, which have very real setback issues. Only advise I can give you is: Use caution lubing cases not to get any on the inside. Do not expand the case if using jacket bullets. Make sure they are fully in the sizer. If the bullet feels like its going in too easy, set it aside. There are times you just are better off scrapping it this doesn't work. I just had to throw out 50 300BO cases becasue I could not size them down to SAAMI spec.
I know its resolved, but someone else may encounter something similar.

 

[Suedenflames68]

Glad you're able to get em to work! Curious what "medieval" consisted of?

I have hornady and Lee equipment for the most part so not familiar with rcbs die instructions. All my sizing dies are supposed to be set to a depth that when the ram is in its fully up position the die just touches the shell plate that holds your brass. I think that's how they all work , but again , haven't used that brand so I would take a look at that just to double check.

Pretty much after every reloading session I blow off my presses and give the rams a shot of clp.

I clean my dies in a little ultra sonic when they seem to be getting dirty.

James

 

[Suedenflames68]

For now, it's worked, but I had the die set waaaay lower than I normally do.

Wish I had quoted you in my last reply to know if I missed that , or if it was part of your edit.... so I want to emphasize that my sizing die is set low enough that if I screwed them in any lower, it wouldn't size the case any further, just limit the stroke of the ram when it contacted the die.

I did a quick google search and sounds like rcbs pistol sizing dies set up the same.

Forgive me if I'm pushing basics at you and you have that handled. Just trying to make sure you're safe. Set back from poor neck tension can be very dangerous. I like to make a dummy round and chamber it into my pistol a dozen times or so. If OAL has shrunk by more than .002" or so I consider it a problem

James

 

[gcleff11]

You can push the basics at me any day of the week, haha. Being safe and not destroying my pistols are paramount. Heck, my kids are going to be shooting those rounds, as well...

 

[Dudedog]

carefully deprime the live primer while resizing the case;

You could have removed the decap pin from you size die, and just sized and not had to worry about the primers, but of course you don't need this tibit now, but as a FYI in case something happens again in the future.

Oppss already mentioned

 

[Toprudder]

So it sounds like you took out the deprimer punch, and then adjusted the sizing die to be lower than before. It sounds to me like you may not have been fully resizing the cases in the first place. The resizing die should be adjusted down to where it just touches the shell holder at full stroke. I wonder if maybe the deprimer punch was too low to begin with and was bottoming out before the sizing die could touch the shell holder.

 

[p404445]

Interesting update. I went medieval on the bad cases with the sizing die w/primer punch removed, as James mentioned. I'm getting good bullets with the bad cases. I also reevaluated the instructions I've had for the resizer die. One thing that always bothered me about the cases--there was absolutely no resistance to whatever die I used? I have made many a good load to the specs given by the RCBS die instructions. However; now it seems to be an issue. At least I am reclaiming this brass that I had a problem with. As recommended, I removed the punch. For now, it's worked, but I had the die set waaaay lower than I normally do. If it keeps working, than I'm going for it. All the cases that I have shot rounds thru have been easy peasy after cleaning. My head is spinning...

I have always set my sizing die to touch the ram at top of stroke.
Since the 9mm is tapered, I would think that is the only correct way. Or am I wrong.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

, I removed the punch. For now, it's worked, but I had the die set waaaay lower than I normally do.

There is only one right way of setting a resizing die up for a tapered case and that is touching the shell holder or shell plate while it's under load.

I don't care who gave me what brass that was or was not fully processed, my resizing die will stay in my progressive presses while I'm loading, so I will "Keep Banging Away" as you put it, with my resizing die on every case that goes through my 4 presses.

Yours was incorrectly set, and you just saw the problems it caused.

 

[ballman6711]

When setting my sizing die (for any caliber I load) I don't want it to touch the shellholder. But I do want it as close as possible.

What I do is put a piece of paper between the shellholder and the die, and when the ram is fully up and the paper won't pull free I'm set. If the paper pulls free, I screw the die down a bit more. Once the paper is removed, I can just see a sliver of light when the ram is fully raised. I haven't measured but figure this gives me about .002 ~ .004 clearance between die and shellholder. Just how I do it.

chris

 

[gcleff11]

"Yours was incorrectly set, and you just saw the problems it caused."

And the next post contradicted what 'you' do, tiger. And I've had a ton of good rounds produced, before any systemic changes. It's lasagna, dude. There's one basic method to make it, but thousands of other ways to modify it. And as far as, 'banging away'... I do it. It's a natural learning curve...