Bullet Suggestions: 357 Mag Range Load

[WrongHanded]

The SNS Casting coated 158gr LSWC .358" that I've used for a number of years seems to be less compatible with my new 686+ than it has been with my various GP100s. I'm getting some leading, at least at lower velocities around 1000fps or so. Not sure about 1250fps or so, but will be checking that in the coming weeks (as circumstances allow).

The leading issue might be due to these particular bullets being in the 16-17bhn range, and just not obturating enough. Which made me wonder if perhaps I should consider (as my current stock is almost gone now), buying something similar but with a lower bhn such as these:

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=52&category=5&secondary=9&keywords=

Anyone had any experience with it, or have another similar suggestion?

 

[EricBu]

Very possible your assessment is spot on. For the slower loads, I've used the MBC 12 bhn coated 158 RNFPs quite a bit, and they don't lead in my Marlin Repeater or any of my revolvers.

 

[AJC1]

The SNS Casting coated 158gr LSWC .358" that I've used for a number of years seems to be less compatible with my new 686+ than it has been with my various GP100s. I'm getting some leading, at least at lower velocities around 1000fps or so. Not sure about 1250fps or so, but will be checking that in the coming weeks (as circumstances allow).

The leading issue might be due to these particular bullets being in the 16-17bhn range, and just not obturating enough. Which made me wonder if perhaps I should consider (as my current stock is almost gone now), buying something similar but with a lower bhn such as these:

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=52&category=5&secondary=9&keywords=

Anyone had any experience with it, or have another similar suggestion?

Lube is another dynamic that you can effect. May try a coat of alox.

 

[EricBu]

Lube is another dynamic that you can effect. May try a coat of alox.

He's using coated bullets. Otherwise, would be an excellent suggestion.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

The SNS Casting coated 158gr LSWC .358" that I've used for a number of years seems to be less compatible with my new 686+ than it has been with my various GP100s. I'm getting some leading, at least at lower velocities around 1000fps or so. Not sure about 1250fps or so, but will be checking that in the coming weeks (as circumstances allow).

The leading issue might be due to these particular bullets being in the 16-17bhn range, and just not obturating enough. Which made me wonder if perhaps I should consider (as my current stock is almost gone now), buying something similar but with a lower bhn such as these:

https://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=52&category=5&secondary=9&keywords=

Anyone had any experience with it, or have another similar suggestion?

The coated match groove less.

 

[WrongHanded]

The coated match groove less.

I was looking at that. Slight hesitance on my part due to the shorter length, which I thought might require a little adjustment to charge weights. On the other hand, they're only for range work, so I guess it doesn't matter too much. It's not like my current loads with the SNS bullet are particularly accurate either.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I was looking at that. Slight hesitance on my part due to the shorter length, which I thought might require a little adjustment to charge weights. On the other hand, they're only for range work, so I guess it doesn't matter too much. It's not like my current loads with the SNS bullet are particularly accurate either.

If I recall correctly it’s a flat based bullet. That’s what you need if you’re not getting good bore seal. Bevel base bullets are pretty awful for sealing off gas.
Other option is to buy oversized just for the 686.

 

[WrongHanded]

If I recall correctly it’s a flat based bullet. That’s what you need if you’re not getting good bore seal. Bevel base bullets are pretty awful for sealing off gas.
Other option is to buy oversized just for the 686.

I noticed that too. And I agree, the flat base is probably a good idea. That coupled with the lower bhn should fix it. It's not like I'm tied to the SNS particularly, they were just easily available when I started reloading and so I've kept using them.

I'll try some of the MBC coated grooveless and see how they do. I doubt they'll be any worse.

Edit: Good thoughts, btw. Thank you!

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I used to use SNS. Migrated away from them. Leading reasons. I now use Summers enterprises. They have been performing great for me.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Matt’s, Quality Cast, GT Bullets, Reed’s, Missouri Bullets… there’s lots of real good casters out there. They all make good - and terrible - bullets. Mostly the same ones some folks say are terrific others say are awful. That’s because every gun is different and what works great in one - or two, or a dozen - work awful in that one special gun most of us have, or had.

 

[WrongHanded]

Done and done.

 

[Random 8]

I have used that exact bullet with warm loads in the +P range .38 special through a 6" Taurus, 10" Contender and 20" rifle barrel with fine accuracy and no leading issues. Per data interpolation (none were chrono'd) I was running in the 900 fps range in the revolver, 1000 fps range in the Contender and God knows what in the rifle.

 

[Walkalong]

Have you checked/measured the throats on the 686?

 

[WrongHanded]

Have you checked/measured the throats on the 686?

I've compared them to various bullets, and measured the bullets. As far as I can tell, the throats are .3575", maybe a hair larger, but not quite .358".

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Brazo's bullets is another company that makes good coated bullets.
My 686 loves them.
Ive never waited more than 3 weeks for a delivery from them.

 

[Walkalong]

I've compared them to various bullets, and measured the bullets. As far as I can tell, the throats are .3575", maybe a hair larger, but not quite .358".

Methinks you need .356, .357, and .358 pin gauges. A cheap investment for a dedicated .357 Mag shooter with multiple guns.

 

[WrongHanded]

Methinks you need .356, .357, and .358 pin gauges. A cheap investment for a dedicated .357 Mag shooter with multiple guns.

I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Bearded Phil]

The SNS 158gr FP has a plain base as opposed to the bevel on most of their other .38 cal molds they use.

My other thought was to suggest Brazos, but Tightgroup Tiger beat me to it. They cast what they say is about 12-13 BHN and can take special sizing for a longer lead time.

Were I in your shoes I'd maybe check out the bore/throat ratio like Walkalong suggested and grab some sample packs of bullets from a few sources and try them out 'til you find one that works in the new revolver.

 

[film495]

new like new to you, or new out of the box new? if new new, I'd consider shooting some plated or jacketed rounds through it, and cleaning it quickly with a brush more than a few times, just to break it in a bit more.

 

[WrongHanded]

new like new to you, or new out of the box new? if new new, I'd consider shooting some plated or jacketed rounds through it, and cleaning it quickly with a brush more than a few times, just to break it in a bit more.

Yes, it was NIB about a month ago. If I had a good supply a jacketed or any plated bullets, I might consider this. But I don't have that much of the one, and none of the other. And you know how unavailable factory ammo is these days.

The SNS 158gr FP has a plain base as opposed to the bevel on most of their other .38 cal molds they use.

My other thought was to suggest Brazos, but Tightgroup Tiger beat me to it. They cast what they say is about 12-13 BHN and can take special sizing for a longer lead time.

Were I in your shoes I'd maybe check out the bore/throat ratio like Walkalong suggested and grab some sample packs of bullets from a few sources and try them out 'til you find one that works in the new revolver.

Good thoughts. I'll consider buying a specially sized bullet if the MBC flat base grooveless coated bullets of 12bhn don't work out. But as I already put the order in yesterday, I'll follow through with those first.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

I'll consider buying a specially sized bullet if the MBC flat base grooveless coated bullets of 12bhn don't work out.

If those bullets don't work out I would consider sending the gun to a Smith to find out what is wrong with it. If it won't shoot those without leading it's not going to shoot any bullet without leading in my opinion.

 

[Bill M.]

I have had good results with 158 gr coated bullets from Acme and Bayou Bullets . And 125 gr plated from Berry's.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Methinks you need .356, .357, and .358 pin gauges. A cheap investment for a dedicated .357 Mag shooter with multiple guns.

For a .357Magnum, aren't we looking for .3575" throats, ideally, so the base/driving band will fit tight to the groove, with .359" as the absolute max? I think if the throat goes under groove, it's a big problem because the b uyllet gets swaged to under groove diameter; but, going slightly over groove is okay as long as the base obturates or you only shoot jacketed?
I have to admit I use a soft lead grooveless wadcutter run through a .358" sizing die three times (rotating ~90 degrees between sizings), checked for concentricity, as my "throat gauge." If it drops in and sticks when turned upside down, but falls free with a little shake, it's "tight" but "good." If it falls right out and doesn't stick, it's too tight; time to use a real gauge and possibly have the throats reamed. If it won't fall free with a shake, it's a little loose. No problem as long ass I can't push it through too easily. If it falls through, I sell the gun.
I have an old 1880's H&R top-break 3" .32 chambered for .32H&R - the original BP round that preceded the .32S&W Long and competed with the .32S&W - and it is bored through, no throats. The .32H&R wasn't a heeled bullet, they just did it that way to save cost. It's accurate with .314" lead bullets from Hunter's Supply lubed with their green wax in a shortened .32Long case over a plain wad and 8gr. of FFFg. The straight throats don't seem to bother accuracy but it gets messy under the forcing cone.

 

[WrongHanded]

If those bullets don't work out I would consider sending the gun to a Smith to find out what is wrong with it. If it won't shoot those without leading it's not going to shoot any bullet without leading in my opinion.

Well, I should be clear about the issue. It's not major leading, it's just significant enough to make me uncomfortable/displeased. I can't say I noticed it whilst shooting the same bullets at around 1250fps, but I was distracted at that point with the strain screw backing out and the ejector rod unscrewing. Still, I don't recall it happening with that load. But at around 1000fps things are different. And as I was down to my last 100 bullets anyway (and therefore needed to order more) I thought I might as well try something different to see if I could eliminate the issue entirely.

It's not like lead is just smeared all over, choking up the barrel. But there was a noticeable amount down the full length of the grooves.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I was distracted at that point with the strain screw backing out and the ejector rod unscrewing.

Yeah, I'm thinking a little leading is the least of your concerns with that gun. And this is a NIB Smith? Wholly Labor Issues, Batman!