Bump sizing, I'm doing it wrong

[Warpiece]

I'm still figuring out reloading for rifle, got a comparator set and Wilson headspace gauge for 223 Remington so I can bump the shoulder. This is very new to me and I was hoping some of you could verify or correct me about some issues I ran into.

I usually process brass in bulk, so I have a bunch of mixed headstamp that's clean but needs to be decapped/ resized, trimmed, cleaned again then swaged and sorted. I already have some primed and ready to load, but it was resized with your basic die setup instructions. No way to measure the shoulder at the time. I've decided not to prime cases till I intend to load from now on as well.

I'm also trying the shake n bake lube, aka lanolin and alcohol mixture 1 to 10 ratio.

I was trying to bump the shoulder about 4 thou, this is AR ammo. I put a few dozen in a zip lock bag, mouth up, spray em good, seal the bag and shake. Let it flash off and size first piece. This is where I make my first mistake, I keep measuring and adjusting off 1 piece of brass 3 times before tossing it back in the bag. About 3 in I get a stuck case. 1st time for me, that wasn't caused by brass that was already damaged. I'm thinking the lanolin mixture is good, sized smooth and easy 1st run into die, but I guess it wipes off enough it shouldn't go back in without more lube. Is that typical?

Next problem, I finally get to the point I'm bumping the shoulder back, but each piece is measuring differently by, what I think, is a lot. A few the shoulder doesn't move at all, then the next is 7 thou! It looks like certain headstamps are sizing roughly the same. The LC is 4 to 7 thou, some wolf brass is 0 to 2, pmc 0 to 4 and this is with no adjustment between.

I assume this means I need to setup the die for each headstamp? Is it really this much hassle to bump size? I'm also wondering if there still may be an issue with the lube. Is it possible this much variation is from uneven or inadequate lube on some of the cases? How much variation should I expect to see if I'm doing everything right?

 

[lordpaxman]

Tagging in as interested. I FL size for AR so interested to see what others say.

 

[MEHavey]

this is AR ammo

^^^ This ^^^ is the critical phrase.
Always -- as a practical rule -- Full-Length resize gas gun ammunition.

Other than that,
Different-headstamp brass will have different springback (maybe even different shoulder thickness and/or alloy itsef)
Differently work-hardened brass will have different springback
Differently annealed brass will have different springback
and finally...
Different case-lube condition will cause different press spring, and different sizing geometry

 

[Bartojc]

Working with mixed you are going to bump the shoulders back different for each head stamp, and maybe within each head stamp depending on which rifle It was shot in. When I started doing .223 for my AR I started with brass that was shot in my rifle. Used a comparator and got my measurements for brass shot in my rifle, then set my FL die to bump the shoulder .002 - .003 for my chamber. What I end up getting is brass shot in my rifle gets bumped .002 -.003.

When I started using range pickups I kept the dies the same. Range brass is all different because it is shot in different chambers, but on the first sizing and from then on it get set for my setting in my rifle.

You need to set your dies to whatever you need for brass shot in your rifle. From then on brass shot in your rifle will get resized and shoulder bumped appropriately. Brass picked up and shot in another rifle will get set to your dies settings. The amount of "bump" the shoulder gets on that first sizing will be different for the different head stamps and different rifles because of them being mixed. Once you set to your chamber on successive resizings they should settle down.

Does that make sense ? It makes sense to me but I don't always type clearly

-Jeff

 

[DukeConnor]

I played around with neck sizing. It just frustrated me. Went back to full length sizing and never looked back.

 

[243winxb]

The first & most important thing is, finding the true chamber head to datum measurement.

Most dies/shell holders will provide a safe fl sizing on a single stage press, when the shell holder contacts the bottom of the fl die.

Problem is Ar15 223 parts guns may have excess chamber head clearance. This needs checked first.

Plus, the firing pin strike from a Savage Axis will set the shoulder back .006"

 

[Blue68f100]

I would start by sorting by head stamp. This will help keep the sizing uniform without have to adj the die every time. You may very well have to adj the sizing die for every mfg due to different spring back.

Like said for a Simi-Auto you want to full length size. Now since this brass was not fired in your gun it would be best to size to a case gauge, then it will fit all guns. Different mfg brass will size differently (spring back) unless you anneal all the brass the same. I anneal every time, it just keeps the sizing effort to a min, but not needed. The reason for doing so is that I have had may brass split on the first sizing/firing.

Besides if you have commercial and mil spec brass they are processed differently depending they have crimped primer pockets. In most all cases the internal volume will be different, different weight. Some sort by weight to help improve accuracy. Load workup may be different between the 2 also. I sort LC by year and have found that different yrs have different chargers to have the whole lot shoot the same POA=POI. For general plinking you may not want to do this but it will give you the most accurate results. I'm able to mix some years.

Multiple runs through the sizing die may require the addition of more lube. If you have one acting hard, back off and apply lube before you stick it.

 

[FROGO207]

The above posters covered it pretty well. For my bolt guns I will size a brass and try it. If the bolt will not close then screw the die in 1/2 turn, size the next brass and try it. Repeat until the bolt closes on them. Then run all them through the sizer at that point.

For a gas gun either FL size or measure and set them back 1/2 the distance between fired and FL sized and call it good. In 223 I have a sizing die set for my bolt rifle and one set for my semis. For the bolt gun I use LC brass and for the others I use a mixed bag of whatever. As stated unless you anneal the results will drive you bonkers. Annealing is better for accuracy but for in a semiauto meh.

 

[Captcurt]

I always FL resize all of my hunting and semi-auto ammo. The only time that I partially resize or neck size is for target shooting and that is only for my long range rifle. When I am in the field I don't want a feeding problem if, and it is a big IF, I need a second shot.

 

[Warpiece]

I did not really take annealing into consideration. This is looking less than reasonable. With the current situation we find ourselves, I felt it would be prudent to try to wring as much life out of my brass as possible. Bump sizing with a full length sizer sounded promising.

Doing the annealing myself is very unlikely. I deal with the process professionally (not ammo related) and could not afford to do it in a way that i would be satisfied with. Maybe I should reconsider that position, or how much money I'm willing to throw at what may be small gains.

Thanks for all the info

 

[Blue68f100]

If you sort by mfg, and size accordingly, it will be more consistent. It's when you mix batches of different hardness is when the problem begins. If you have a set of shims you can just keep notes on what shims are needed for which mfg brass. As you use the brass it work hardens and will require adj the die. That's one of the beauty of annealing, they stay the same. I have some LC brass that's up to 13 reloads. Primer pockets are getting loose and had to switch primer mfg though. This will buy me another 3-4 cycles before it done. But a change in primers also changes the load and accuracy.

Annealing is not hard and can be done with a propane torch, drill & socket. The main thing is not to over cook them, then you ruin the brass.