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Bump Stocks not being turned in.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Jack B., Apr 16, 2019.

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  1. Elkins45

    Elkins45 Member

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    Honestly I think all the previous Presidents have existed within the political structure and simply haven’t been bold enough to do something so obviously wrong. Trump is from outside the political structure and thinks anything is OK as long as “they” let you get away with it. My fear is that he has now emboldened a whole new generation of tyrants.
     
  2. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Obama talked the anti gun line but did not want to unleash that during his term. When Holder talked about an AWB, Emmanuel shut him up.
    Current candidates are saying they will use executive action to take out MSSAs.
    One needs to know what one is talking about.
     
  3. ponchh

    ponchh Member

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    Banning bump stocks doesn't infringe on my right to own a gun, anymore than a drunk driver owning a car, but not allowed to buy gas.

    As for the dangerous chemical theory, they are dangerous to the public in general, regardless of who uses them for any purpose. Bump stocks on the other hand, are dangerous to the public only when used illegally. The crimes of a few shouldn't dictate the rights of the public at large, because some things are dangerous in itself, some others only when in the hands of the lawless.

    If the goal is to save lives, why doesn't the MSM show every bloody wreck on national TV? The simple answer is because those are things that they want the right to do. They generally don't own guns, so why should anybody else.

    2017 had the lowest DWI deaths since 1982, at just under 10,500, while texting caused 1/4 of all accidents coming in at just under 30,000 deaths.

    What I would like to see for DUI is 30 days in jail first offense, then gets much more severe there after.
    Texting while driving is a $50 fine here, yet it's the greatest cause of death on the road.

    This whole discussion is meaningless anyway. By 2024, or 2028 at best, Texas will be a blue state from all of the transplants. With Texas, California, and New York in the bag, the far left will dictate policy to the rest of the country.
    I'm glad I live so far in the woods, my road isn't even on Google maps.
     
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  4. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    This is a fantasy. The courts have already rejected all the legal challenges to the ban, and the Supreme Court appears to be in no mood to get involved.
     
  5. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    It's called a slippery slope for a reason, aka, not a free fall.
     
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  6. coloradokevin

    coloradokevin Member

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    That's it in a nutshell.

    I also think one of the very first replies on this thread spelled out the reality of bans of this type: it will just lead to more people deciding that they may as well own a real illegal machine gun. Some people think that's a far-fetched idea, but let's look at the situation here for a moment:

    While I'll acknowledge that bump stocks are a novelty item, they are still a novelty item that was (until quite recently) legally owned by over a million gun owners who wanted to experience something similar to full auto fire, but were also unwilling or unable to spend $30K on a registered AR-15 machinegun to do so. When these bump stock owners bought these items for around $300 or so they also received a copy of the ATF letter assuring them that these items were legal, and not in violation of the machinegun ban (copies of that letter are all over the internet).

    Now we're looking at a situation where, say, a million or more legal owners of these products were turned into felons overnight. They were offered no compensation for being asked to destroy an item that the government itself told them was legal to purchase and use, which has now been banned without any law-making process. In short, the government first said: "yes, you can buy this, and thanks for asking!", then turned around and said: "now destroy or relinquish the property we said you could own, before we throw you in prison for having it!"

    Couple that with the fact that gun owners already tend to be somewhat distrustful of the government (if you don't believe that, you haven't done much reading here), and I think we're setting up a perfect storm situation for a lot of folks to start possessing *real* illegal machineguns, even when they likely would have never done so in the past. If the possession of this item is going to land them in the same hot water as owning an unregistered machinegun, why wouldn't they just go whole-hog and acquire the real deal? It's the old 'in for a dime, in for a dollar' philosophy.

    In short, it's the creation of a situation that just drives legal gun owners underground, and potentially further into the realm of what is "illegal".
     
  7. OldMac

    OldMac Member

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    We used to clip baseball cards to the spokes on our bikes to make them sound like motorcycles. It was stupid. Nobody would care or fight a ban instigated by the baseball card collectors or antibikers. Some people don't believe bumpstocks were a problem or solution to anything. The government picked a battle that nobody cared enough to fight or comply. They don't even care enough to enforce it. It would have been polite if the antigunners "bought them back" so the owners wouldn't be ripped off twice.
     
  8. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    I'll bet that if a bump stock owner had enough of an "in your face" attitude to use one openly at a public range, the police would be called. There are plenty of busybody gun owners that would do that. At least half of gun owners are sticklers for legality, even though they might protest initially, before the rules are adopted.

    This regulation has had the desired effect: to drive bump stocks underground.

    The same thing will happen if and when a new AWB is adopted.
     
  9. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    Driving bump stocks underground is a bad idea, and lessens control if only because no one would report theft of a stolen bump stock now that they are contraband.

    Gun control crusader Robert Sherrill ("Saturday Night Special" 1973, 1975) admitted that a ban on guns could backfire by driving guns underground making them legally uncontrollable, and given that in a typical year less than 1 of 400 guns was used in crime* the number of guns available to criminals gray or black market could actually go up. Sherrill predicted that in the face of even ban limited to handguns, a significant number of owners would retain possession. Contraband would not be reported to NCIC if stolen, and owners who got antsy about retaining contraband might transfer them to individuals willing to take the risk.

    Will anyone track use of bump stocks in crime after this ban? I know range use or target practice on public land will go to zero, target practice on private land to near zero. Since the only reported crime use of bump stocks appears to have been the Las Vegas shooting, possibily criminal use will stay near zero.

    Aside: Given the world-wide use of craft-built ("DIY" or do-it-yourself) submachineguns, pistols, shotguns in crime, how difficult would it be to make a bump stock in a garage work shop? Which raises the question, is there any criminal demand for illicit manufacture of bump stocks?

    ___________
    * Sherrill's 1 of 400 was based on 1970s FBI UCR gun crime counts versus estimates of guns in private possession; at the time 400,000 reported crimes where a gun was displayed or used versus estimates of 160 million private guns. However, a gun in possession of a gang or of a repeat offender may be used in multiple gun crimes in a single year as documented by the ATF NIBIN system of tracking cartridge casings recovered at crime scenes.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2019
  10. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    It's even worse because no one would report a theft of a rifle to which a bump stock happened to be attached.
     
  11. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Is there any "real data" that shows actually how many crimes have been committed with bump stocks?? Or is there only this one alleged use that prompted the ban?? Yes, the shooter had some, but had LOTS of rifles who knows what was actually used. Now of course the giant Hotel is being sued as it was their fault??
     
  12. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    The police know. Thousands of fired cartridge cases were matched to guns that fired same. Virtually all were fired from AR-15 rifles fitted with bump stocks. See link to final police report.
     
  13. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Well OK, this case. How many other documented shootings with a bump stock are on file??
     
  14. bikemutt

    bikemutt Member

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    I don't disagree with what you say but, and there's always a but, any organization like a public gun range which turns a blind eye towards what has now become illegal activity runs the risk of being complicit, and being shut down, at best.

    Shooting up in the woods or wherever fine, being upset about the bump stock ban fine, ruin something that's taken good folks decades to build just to make point, eh.
     
  15. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Member

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    alsaqr said: ... Thousands of fired cartridge cases were matched to guns that fired same. Virtually all were fired from AR-15 rifles fitted with bump stocks. ...

    According to the released PDF of the ballistic evidence, the Las Vegas shooter had 12 AR style rifles equipped with bump stocks and a total of 1,048 fired rounds matched those rifles. Table with my post #91 this thread.
     
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  16. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    As you said in post #91
    "That legislation by fiat out of fear is the true threat." Much the same as the legislation crammed down our throats in less than 30 days after the Parkland shooting.

    Imagine if a shooter had a scoped rifle with a suppressor? Heck even a bolt action. How much carnage could be inflicted shooting into a concert crowd before anyone knew what was going on? Would optics then be banned, would suppressors be banned?? The list goes on.
     
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  17. shafter

    shafter Member

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    Unless someone thought the ban would be overturned at some point I don't see the sense in keeping one around. If I can't use it then it's of no use to me. I don't think it would be worth getting caught with one.
     
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  18. AlexanderA
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    AlexanderA Member

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    Just as it took a Republican (Nixon) to open relations with China, it took a Republican (Trump) to do something like banning bump stocks by fiat. You can bet that this precedent will be used for far broader purposes once an antigun administration gets into power. It's very easy to see how AR-15's could be banned using exactly the same rationale. And what's worse is that there is now a body of court decisions upholding the bump stock ban. Those will be cited in support of a broader ban.
     
  19. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

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    Apparently a suppressor was used in the recent Virginia killings. ...
     
  20. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    Plus an extended magazine. A LEO commentator said the problem with suppressor usage is that that they change the sound of the gun shots. That adds to the confusion of victims not being able to figure out, at first, what is going on during a rampage if they just hear the uproar.

    The HPA is so dead, given the failure of the progun GOP do doing anything with it. I know the excuses. The NRA dropped the ball and still does given its chaos and inability to come up with a broad message for gun rights. They just preach to the choir with a message that turns off much chance of expanding the progun body politic. That is just fine with some people who like being in their little club.
     
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  21. P5 Guy

    P5 Guy Member

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    Just speculating; was the silencer just a 'solvent trap'?
    Another speculation; was the 45 a 'race gun' with a compensator?
    We the People need photo documentation, which we will never get.
     
  22. GEM

    GEM Moderator Staff Member

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    So if it was, let's ban USPSA? Clucking over some media error does little to mitigate the effect of such shootings on folks disposed against gun rights. It's like arguing that a rampage was done with an MSR vs a MSSA - who cares?
     
  23. Jack614

    Jack614 Member

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    who would of known people would respect the 2nd ammendment more then some liberal presidents gun grabbing

    im sure supressors will be next,they'll just keep chipping away at it because the fake "pro gun"republicans only seem to defend their gun rights when the democrats are president
     
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  24. pdsmith505

    pdsmith505 Member

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    FB_IMG_1559586096207.jpg
     
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  25. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    Maybe Trump will order the BATF to make suppressors NFA items.:what:


    Oh .....wait. :confused:
     
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