Burning Powder or Burning Crosses -- It's all the Same

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Black Butte said:
Marc Lamont Hill just informed me that gun owners are more likely to be racists
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Mr. Hill is a likable person with very mistaken views on race and society in general. I can't imagine there is any social or economic policy on which he and I could agree. However, he didn't just tell you gun owners are likely to be racists. He wants us to know there is a study that claims a significant correlation between white gun ownership and "symbolic racism," (whatever that means). In fact, Mr. Hill ends the clip by stating he questions the study's purported findings, which is actually what annoys me most about the clip.

The reporterette that explained the "study" gave a couple examples of "symbolic racism" which seemed to indicate the "researchers" were looking for a result and framed their questions accordingly. I think Mr. Hill believes this to be the case as well, yet he still aired the segment for Huffington Post, probably for the purpose of keeping the race industry in business. Typical...
 
It's from the Huff Post, so its credibility is the same as if it came from the White House press secretary.........................Only MSNBC is more blatantly liberal/anti-gun
 
The media REALLY doesn't want to open THAT can of worms, or perhaps pictures of the Black Panthers parading openly armed in California in the '60s might find their way out back into the public view.
I suppose open carry of a truncheon or club means you're not racist, like the poll intimidators in 2008 in Philly?
 
I appreciate that Mark Lamont Hill closed with "I'm a little suspicious of the findings and how we're making the correlations here..."
Here's the article itself they're talking about. http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0077552
Keep in mind that PlosOne is not an academic peer reviewed journal specializing in a narrow field of study and the submissions are made directly to the website (IOW, not a lot of academic rigor can be expected) and paid for partly by the authors. All the authors are either from Australia or the UK.
PLOS ONE Journal Information

PLOS ONE (eISSN-1932-6203) is an international, peer-reviewed, open-access, online publication. PLOS ONE welcomes reports on primary research from any scientific discipline. It provides:

Open-access—freely accessible online, authors retain copyright
Fast publication times
Peer review by expert, practicing researchers
Post-publication tools to indicate quality and impact
Community-based dialogue on articles
Worldwide media coverage
PLOS ONE is published by PLOS, a nonprofit organization.
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Frankly, I'm not sure I doubt the basic stats. After all, gun owners are more likely to be extreme conservatives. And extreme conservatives are more likely to be racists. That's just an unfortunate relation. BUT... it has little to do with 2A anymore than the right to life. I'm one of those fence riders who adamantly believes in 2A and R-to-L and also wish lazy do-nothings would get off of free welfare.

But I also see that middle road which we must all eventually cross over to when we get old or become disabled. Why are citizens different than soldiers when it comes to disabilities? I worked my whole life to support others' needs... including our soldiers and Marines. It's my turn... though I haven't asked for a single penny for two years without income. I became disabled before I had the time to deal with it... and I'm embarrassed and angry about that.

Yes, I know this post will get me reamed.
 
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I liked the part about how us racists where against anti gun violence legislation. I wonder if this lady was aware that we have legislation against all forms of violence already.
 
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After all, gun owners are more likely to be extreme conservatives.
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That's an assumption I don't think you can prove. The vast majority of gun owners almost certainly can not be likely to be extreme conservatives or we wouldn't be talking about trying to fight off Anti laws with 30% of adults in the U.S. being gun owners if they were more likely to be extreme conservatives. We'd never see any Anti laws and we'd see the existing ones rolled back.

The real political fact is that most gun owners survey actually pretty middle of the road or middle right with significant numbers of middle left gun owners. Just because we see highly vocal people on the extreme right in 2A discussions doesn't mean they're the majority.

Loud doesn't mean numerous.
 
Thank you, hso.
I was typing at the same time you were.
My reply was a bit briefer, and a bit less tactful.
I think I'll delete it and stand behind yours instead....
 
hso said:
That's an assumption I don't think you can prove. The vast majority of gun owners almost certainly can not be likely to be extreme conservatives or we wouldn't be talking about trying to fight off Anti laws with 30% of adults in the U.S. being gun owners if they were more likely to be extreme conservatives. We'd never see any Anti laws and we'd see the existing ones rolled back.

The real political fact is that most gun owners survey actually pretty middle of the road or middle right with significant numbers of middle left gun owners. Just because we see highly vocal people on the extreme right in 2A discussions doesn't mean they're the majority.

Loud doesn't mean numerous.
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Well then, I guess I fit right in.
 
That guy Hill is every bit as much a race baiter as Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. I wouldn't take any more credence about anything that comes out of his mouth than theirs.
 
After all, gun owners are more likely to be extreme conservatives. And extreme conservatives are more likely to be racists.
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Absolutely untrue and I dare you to provide your proof. The folks getting the entitlements"are far more racist and are constantly egged on in that regard by their "revered" leaders. Gun owners are not all conservatives, nor are conservatives racist -that is ignorant in its assumptions
 
This is crazy talk. According to their survey, you are "racist"...not kidding....if you agree with the statement "following the civil rights movement, blacks have had the opportunity to rise out of poverty"....that is their words exactly word for word. If you said yes to that, you are racist. Even the host says that he is suspicious of the study. What the heck is wrong with these people?
 
Gun owners run the gamut from extremely liberal to extremely conservative, and all points in between. Some of them are almost surely racists, but so are some antis. It proves nothing. Oh yea, racism goes both ways.
 
I'd venture to say, far more gun laws are racist than gun owners.
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I'd say initially there may have been some truth to that (Saturday night specials, etc). These days I don't agree with that as much. A lot of gun owners fall back on that and it sounds good for us to say but the truth is that the gun grabbers don't base their hatred on reality. They would rather take the gun away from a law abiding man trying to defend his family and property than a "victim of society" that is shooting other "victims of society" in Chicago.

The laws aren't exactly racist anymore....they are just used to punish the voters that voted for the wrong candidate. The same way the IRS is used to punish them. If you're a drug dealer and you shoot another drug dealer for selling drugs on your block....you're ok...you're just a victim of our awful racist capitalist society and your crimes involving guns have nothing to do with guns in any way. If you fly a Gadsden flag outside your house and you love our constitution, you need to have all your guns taken away because you're a danger to society.
 
Sounds like this "study" or whatever is as confused as to what constitutes "racism" as anyone today. What they describe sounds like some arbitrary concoction of true racism, mere ignorance, some bigotry, bias, jingoism, and rudeness/insensitivity that is honestly more indicative of the prejudices of the testers than anything useful.

"According to their survey, you are "racist"...not kidding....if you agree with the statement "following the civil rights movement, blacks have had the opportunity to rise out of poverty""
Which "racist" you would be by the stupidly expansive interpretation of the word as slung by idiots of all colors today. "Racist" no longer means having beliefs in inherent superiority/inferiority of different ethnicities. The word now means having any opinions or assumptions whatsoever about a protected group which aren't dictated by that group.

For better or worse, human logic is based on assumptions (ideally fitted to experience), so forbidding ourselves to assume based on the evidence we have before us is the same as forbidding free thought.

I'm quite positive the purpose of this study was to conflate the old saws that "gun owners are Republicans" and " Republicans are racists." Both of which are wildly inaccurate bigotries, as we all know, but which are widely held beliefs by those outside those groups. One thing I do know, is that racism/classism is the root of all restriction-based gun laws; put in place by elitists convinced that 'subhumans' like blacks, Chinese, and the Irish weren't to be trusted with weapons (gun laws, knife laws, etc.)

"I'd say initially there may have been some truth to that (Saturday night specials, etc). These days I don't agree with that as much <that gun laws are racist>."
I defy anyone to find a single possession/use restriction on guns anywhere, which is actually enforced, that isn't disproportionately targeted towards marginalized groups (minorities, the poor, illegal aliens, whatever), or was passed under the pretense it would be executed that way.

TCB
 
"There are lies, damn lies, and statistics."

Once again, Mark Twain is proven correct. People never change.
 
Well since the percentage of black racists far exceeds that of white racists in this country and the percentage of gun owning whites exceeds that of gun owning blacks, then I suspect this "study" is skewed a bit.
 
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