Bushing dies
- Thread starter hughie
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jwrowland77
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
IMO: No.
Not unless you have a match chambered rifle.
And neck turn all your brass to fit it.
You will be chasing your tail with all the variations in factory brass neck thickness, and factory chambers.
Don't make it harder then it needs to be.
You can load 1/4 MOA ammo with standard FL dies if you and your rifle are capable of it.
rc
Not unless you have a match chambered rifle.
And neck turn all your brass to fit it.
You will be chasing your tail with all the variations in factory brass neck thickness, and factory chambers.
Don't make it harder then it needs to be.
You can load 1/4 MOA ammo with standard FL dies if you and your rifle are capable of it.
rc
USSR
Member
No, although they are used by a large number of precision rifle shooters.
In MHO, if you are searching for the most accurate loads, Yes. But if you are not using match bullets and Lapua brass, then you are handicapping yourself in other ways.
Don
rcmodel said:
Agreed!
The key words here are "Neck turn your brass". If you are not going to spend time and money on Neck turning and uniforming, the bushing die is a waste.
With the bushing die and brass that has not been turned and uniformed, all the imperfections and neck wall variations are being transferred to the inside of the case, where the bullet resides. The result is inconsistency and increased Run-out.
243winxb
Member
Are bushing dies really necessary
Depends, if your standard dies are over working the necks, then YES. Most are. Read the 2nd page here by BoydAllen. I find this to be true. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3846998.0 The only way to know is, do you own testing. 
Depends, if your standard dies are over working the necks, then YES. Most are. Read the 2nd page here by BoydAllen. I find this to be true. http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3846998.0 The only way to know is, do you own testing. 
witchhunter
Member
It takes a lot of work to find out. You must turn necks unless you have a custom chamber. These dies are adjustable for different neck tension, do you know what neck tension your gun likes? There are so many variables, but they sure are smooth, as there is no expander ball to deal with. If you know what neck size you need, it is way cheaper to order a custom sizer die. I would recommend a standard die set for someone just starting out, leave this stuff to the guys that really know how to get the most out of it.
USSR
Member
Simply not true. When I shot competitively, everybody used bushing dies and few if any turned their brass. Variations in neck wall thickness are transferred back to the outside of the neck as soon as you seat your bullet, which acts just like a mandrel in that sense.
Don
Otto
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In that case, get a Lee Collet die...it's the next best thing. It will produce concentric rounds with fairly consistent neck tension.
I actually have Reddings FL Type S dies (pictured above) but find myself using Lee's collet die more often than not.
Maybe in your tests, but not in mine. Using the Bushing die with no expander created more "bullet" runout then using it with the expander or using a standard FL sizing die with expander.
The variation will indeed be transferred back to the outside, but the bullets will be seated crooked. YMMV.
I am using a bushing die to load unturned brass in .308, and it is giving me .00025 to .001 run out (Either seater), but I am using Lapua brass. I have not tried it with less concentric brass.
You have to start with straight brass, and the more even the case walls and neck thickness's are, the more concentric the load can be.
Then the brass has to be sized without causing run out in the brass, and then loaded without doing it as well.
With 6PPC I used .220 Russian cases converted to 6PPC and with necks turned to the nearest .0001 for a tight necked (.262) chamber.
There are a lot of variables.
You have to start with straight brass, and the more even the case walls and neck thickness's are, the more concentric the load can be.
Then the brass has to be sized without causing run out in the brass, and then loaded without doing it as well.
With 6PPC I used .220 Russian cases converted to 6PPC and with necks turned to the nearest .0001 for a tight necked (.262) chamber.
There are a lot of variables.
USSR
Member
One thing you have to keep in mind is the amount of neck size reduction you are doing. If you are reducing the neck diameter of fired brass that is more than .005" above what you want to end up with, then you should do it in two steps. For example: your fired brass comes out of your rifle at .342" and you want it to be .335". Then use something like a .338" bushing followed up by a .335" bushing. By doing this your runout will be very low and you will not have "crooked" bullets.
Don
243winxb
Member
Full length sizing Type-S Bushing Die
The most meaningful property of using a bushing die is the ability to size only 1/2 of the case neck for a factory chamber. The unsized part of the neck expands after about 3 loading, centering the round in the chamber. My testing showed if more of the neck was sized, accuracy was not as good on average. Neck turning helps here also. Cartridge 243 Win. in single shot bolt action rifle.
The most meaningful property of using a bushing die is the ability to size only 1/2 of the case neck for a factory chamber. The unsized part of the neck expands after about 3 loading, centering the round in the chamber. My testing showed if more of the neck was sized, accuracy was not as good on average. Neck turning helps here also. Cartridge 243 Win. in single shot bolt action rifle.
USSR
Member
I also only partially resized the neck (~2/3), allowing for the unsized part to center the cartridge on the bullet end of the chamber.
Don
Don
Offfhand
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Hughie, in your first post if you had mentioned that you will be loading for the .20, and the 6.5 Creedmore you would have gotten different responses. Both calibers, especially the Creedmore are what are generally regarded as accuracy specific calibers: the .204 Ruger being a varmint caliber and the Creedmore developed specifically for long range target shooting (Why buy a Creedmore if not for accuracy?) Therefore there is a significant advantage in using bushing type dies because they allow you to better tweek your case prep for top accuracy. Keep in mind that bushing dies will do everything the old fixed dimension dies will do, plus a lot more they can't do. The investment definitely pays off when you have rifles capable good accuracy and want even better accuracy.
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USSR
Member
Another of the many "tricks" we found out in LR shooting was, low neck tension helps produce more accurate ammo. And, this is where bushing dies excel, since you can produce the exact amount of neck tension you want.
Don
Don
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