Bushing Dies

[ottsm]

I have a lot of different caliber rifles, most of them are obsolete cartridges. I just started measuring concentricity and didn't realize just how bad some of my cartridges were.

I happened to get a Redding competition die set for the 250 Savage I have, the bushing die is the way to go to increase brass life and keeping things concentric.
But the problem now is I want other calibers, such as 303 Savage and 300 Savage. They don't make any bushing type dies for these calibers. And why have all the different sizes for 30 caliber, does Redding make a universal S type die that covers a range? Can you get a 30-30 type S die and just use it for most applications (303SAV, 300SAV, etc.). The 30-30 has a wider base that the 300SAV which is based off the 30-06, the 303 is about the same.

Currently for my 303SAV I had to pull the ball plunger out (which is the cause of the problem), full length resize only. Then I had to use a 30-06 Hornady plunger and let it free float (didn't tighten the threads). This was better but not as good as what I was able to achieve and keep with the bushing die, and I'm still working the heck out of the brass. I also spin the brass around and size it twice.

I've noticed that when I start out with fresh brass my accuracy issues go away, so I believe my problem was with being concentric. I'm suspecting my Lyman rotary type press could be part of the problem.

Anyone know of any other solution?

 

[Walkalong]

Forster will hone out the neck on a sizer to whatever you want (Match it to your brass). Do they offer sizers in those calibers?

 

[Bart B.]

The reason why bushings come in several sizes for a given caliber is case wall thickness varies across different makes of brass. I've measured .308 Win. case neck thickness from .012" to .016". Which means a .308" diameter bullet in them makes the loaded round neck diameter somewhere between .332" and .340" which is quite a spread.

Plus, 30 caliber bullets can be anywhere between .306" and .309" diameter and still in SAAMI specs. Coupled with the above range in case neck wall thickness, loaded round neck diameters will have a huge range.

Best practice seems to be using a bushing .002" smaller than a loaded round's neck diameter. Measure several to get the average then use that number for your bushing to get. Some people choose to get one bushing a size larger and another a size smaller to adjust the neck grip on bullets for best accuracy and functioning.

One thing that causes accuracy to degrade after firing the first time with new cases is when the bolt face is quite a bit out of square. First firing makes the case head out of square almost matching that of the bolt face. Resizing the case doesn't square that head back up. Firing it again with it indexed differently than the first time compounds the issue. Shot stringing at right angles to the closed bolt locking lug axis is normal. The solution is having the bolt face squared up, but the barrel may have to be set back a few thousandths to keep headspace in specs.

It also helps to minimally full length size fired cases setting their shoulder back no more than .002". You'll need a case headspace gauge to measure the cases dimension from head to shoulder, such as an RCBS Precision Mic or Hornady LNL.

Walkalong's suggestion on the Forster die is the best solution. Such one-piece dies end up making case necks the straightest and best aligned with the case axis. Dies with floating bushings are almost as good and can deliver great results. The one-piece die keeps the case body and shoulder perfectly aligned with the neck when sizing; dies with busings don't do that. But the difference is .001" or less.

 

[Fatelvis]

Ott, I assume you are wanting the bushing die primarily for neck sizing. If that is the case, yes, buying a sizer for a short, wide bodied cartridge will lend itself to accomodate many other cartridges also. I use a 7mm BR bushing NS die for most calibers I load for.

 

[243winxb]

accomodate many other cartridges also

Running a 308 win case into a Redding 243 win S FL sizing bushing die does strange things to the neck, with no bushing in the die. A neck only die may be different.

 

[ottsm]

Fatelvis, Yes, I'm talking neck only sizing. I was thinking the 30-30 neck sizing die would be wide enough to accept the 303SAV and any 30-06 caliber based cartridge like the 300SAV, probably would not work with the 30-40Krag as it probably has a wider body. The 30-30 also has a long neck similar to the 303SAV. I probably over complicated my original question (sorry), I was just wondering why Redding doesn't make a universal die that all you need to do is swap bushings. I'm aware of how you select the bushing. I was wondering if there was more going on than this, otherwise I would have thought Redding would have several cartridges with the same part number for neck sizing only, but they don't, every one of them is different.

My existing Lyman press, when operating it it relies on a bolt in the center to keep things aligned, on the up stroke it also can push against a far back stop on the opposite side. But when pulling the plunger back out, I can see it deflect ever so slightly, and no such front stop is available. You can only tighten the center nut up so much or else it will not turn, the manual calls for about 1/64" clearance on the back stop.

 

[Fatelvis]

I agree, Redding should offer a universal NS die, but that would cut into sales a bit. Lol..With that being said, a die for one of the short, fat cartridges, like one of the Win short mags would accomodate most other cartridges, due to their .555" wide body that the die is cut for. After all, you're just looking for a "neck bushing holder".

 

[ottsm]

After taking apart my 250SAV neck bushing die I can see it's not going to be that easy. 30BR might work but Redding S dies have an inner shoulder support so the shoulder angle will also come into play.

 

[Bart B.]

Have you considered a full length sizing die with a bushing the right size or its neck honed out a little?

Such dies have produced the best accuracy for some time. Benchrest folks getting best accuracy quit neck sizing a few years ago.

 

[ottsm]

I don't know anyone who makes a bushing type die (full length or neck) for the 303 savage or 300 savage. Would have to be custom made. Forster is currently NOT making custom dies according to their web page. S. D. Meacham only seems to make the larger calibers such as 38-55 and above.

 

[Fatelvis]

After taking apart my 250SAV neck bushing die I can see it's not going to be that easy. 30BR might work but Redding S dies have an inner shoulder support so the shoulder angle will also come into play.

Maybe I just got lucky using the 7BR NS die, but I never had a problem with the shoulder using it to neck size a whole bunch of cartridges. Namely: 222 Rem., 6.5 Bullberry, 30-30, 303 Brit., 30-40 Krag, 308 win and 30-06

 

[ottsm]

If you can do the 30-30 and 30-40 krag then the 7BR NS die then it might work with 303 savage, not sure about the 300 savage. The 7BR has a 30 degree neck angle. 30-06 has 17.5 degree, 30-30 has about 15.4, Krag has 21.6. The 303 savage is 16 degree, and the 300 savage is 30 degree. The 30BR also has a 30 degree neck angle. I might just try this.

 

[ottsm]

Fatelvis, are you using Redding S dies or Forster dies?

 

[Fatelvis]

Redding S

 

[Fatelvis]

If you can do the 30-30 and 30-40 krag then the 7BR NS die then it might work with 303 savage, not sure about the 300 savage. The 7BR has a 30 degree neck angle. 30-06 has 17.5 degree, 30-30 has about 15.4, Krag has 21.6. The 303 savage is 16 degree, and the 300 savage is 30 degree. The 30BR also has a 30 degree neck angle. I might just try this.

Just a side note: I usually do not size the neck all the way down to the shoulder. I usually only resize about halfway down, so the case's shoulder never comes close to hitting the die's shoulder.