Bushmaster M17s "double-tap" PROBLEMS!

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Hesher420

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Has anyone any experience with this problem? Occasionally, the weapon will fire 2 or 3 rounds downrange with a single trigger pull. It happens very randomly. Throughout a 20 round mag, 7-10 shots will be singles and the rest will be multiples.


***page 15 here has an explosion drawing

I have disassembled and inspected the lower end and cannot find any worn or broken parts. Once the sear(30-417) releases the hammer(30-413), the disconnector(30-418) is in the correct position to catch the hammer upon its return to the cocked position. The disconnector spring(30-419) is in place and is intact. The entire "ignition" assembly is free of carbon, and operates smoothly without any hung-ups. When the lower is separated from the upper for inspection, and the trigger is worked and the hammer returned manually everything seems to be operating correctly.

Does anyone have any ideas why this could be happening?

If I have to, I'll take it to a gunsmith to have it checked out, but I don't believe many in my area are familiar with this gun.

Bushmaster's repair dept. was NO help! They basically said, We don't make it anymore, We don't carry parts for it anymore, You're on your own.
 
I would DEFINITELY take it to a gunsmith who is knowledgeable about the gun, and I would not fire it again until the problem is fixed.

IIRC the ATF managed to get a conviction for possession of an unregistered machine gun due to an AR that occasionally misfired sending 3 rounds then jamming on number 4. It was even a well documented problem and the rifle was under recall for that very reason, but it still didn't help the guy.
 
The hammer, trigger, disconector look similar to an AR. IMHO, the contact points between the hammer and trigger are worn, causing the problem. Many moons ago, I did a bubba trigger job on an AR and had the same problem that you're having; replaced the trigger and hammer and it was fixed. Are parts still available for this carbine?

Edit: And +1 on Telekinesis' comment; I wouldn't take it to the range until fixed.
 
MtnCreek-Parts are not available. Since its smiliar to the AR, hopefully the local gunsmith can fix it.

Telekinesis-Thanks for the heads up on the whole ATF B.S.
 
Now that I've fired about 150 rds. through it without a single bounce fire, I'm confident in saying that the gunsmith fixed my bullpup. The top of the hammer was chipped (looked fine to my inexperienced eye) and the bolt was not pushing the hammer down far enough to grab in the disconnector. Since parts are unavailable though Bushmaster, he built up the top of the hammer with weld, reshaped it, and then heat treated the part.

Maybe this thread will help someone in the future. Look VERY carefully at the hammer, the chip in mine looked like a factory edge at first!
 
^Oh, now that pisses me off. I called them about this a few weeks ago and was basically told I was on my own. The guy I talked to actually said, "If we don't have the parts to sell, we don't have the parts to fix yours, now do we?" I'm going to call them again now and try to give their customer service one more chance at this.
 
I'd highly suggest you delete this thread, bad mojo if the tax-collecting-door-kickers-that-be find out, even when it isn't your fault.
 
I called them about this a few weeks ago and was basically told I was on my own. The guy I talked to actually said, "If we don't have the parts to sell, we don't have the parts to fix yours
Click to expand...

Mention the FAQ, you may have gotten a Remington guy who didn't know about the FAQ. Remington owns bushmaster now.

To add
Looks like they replaced the hammer, sear, and springs. I'm a little POed they didn't at least put a note in the box explaining what they did to it.
 
I called Bushmaster cust. service today and was told that this IS NOT a known problem with the M17S and that theres abut 0% that a gun that hasn't been in production since '05 got repaired under warranty.

Oh, and the FAQ, I was told that that was an old response to an individual customer that may have nothing to do with my gun.

I love my Bullpup and I'm glad to have found a great gunsmith in this process, but I will never buy another Bushmaster gun because of the exceptionally poor service I have received from them.


*And whats this guy talkin" about?:confused:

kfgk14......
.I'd highly suggest you delete this thread, bad mojo if the tax-collecting-door-kickers-that-be find out, even when it isn't your fault.
 
You have to got to be kidding me

I called them and they said ship it in. Now mind you they never used the term warranty and the price they charged me for shipping could have included a repair cost.

Remington what have you done to Bushmaster? And Marlin for that matter.


PS
After doing some reading I'm getting the impression they changed the trigger system after the early ones (pre 94) so maybe there's a design issue with the pre 94 production. Mine is a pre 94 and maybe they feel they have to fix those before someone kills themselves.
 
I don't recall the exact date that they modified the design (out of town ATM), but they did modify several parts in the lower group (namely, but not exclusively, the takedown pins). The details of said changes escape me at the moment.

FWIW, I consider the rifle to be one of my favorite firearms, and honestly one of the best designs that I know of (though others staunchly disagree). I can honestly say that over the many thousands of rounds through mine, I have had no failures that cannot be attributed to cartridges or magazines (these are inevitable), and have had to replace no parts due to wear and/or breakage. I have, however, made some modifications to make it a bit better and greatly improve the realized accuracy...if you're interested here is a link to a thread I put together a while back.

:)
 
*And whats this guy talkin" about?
Click to expand...

Posting on the internet that you are in possession of illegal stuff (even illegal-by-accident stuff) is bad mojo. One trigger pull=two shots=machine gun
when aforementioned machine gun=unregistered=someone other than the Kool-Aid guy knocking in your walls and yelling "ATF hands up" instead of "OH YEAH"
I hope you've followed all that, it made a lot of sense to me :D
 
I would think there a big difference between saying "Hey my gun malfunctioned and went burst/full auto, and I got it fixed" and saying "Hey here's how to make your gun full auto". Or at least I would like to think so. The first one is a potential design fault and is beyond the control of the user. The OP was asking how to fix the issue, not how to create it.
 
I would think there a big difference between saying "Hey my gun malfunctioned and went burst/full auto, and I got it fixed" and saying "Hey here's how to make your gun full auto".
Click to expand...

Yeah, there is. Only problem is that the ATF has a habit of going after the malfunction crowd as well as the purposefully manufactured guys.

By saying that your gun did go full auto (basically anything other than one bullet per trigger pull) you are effectively saying that you are in possession of an unregistered machine gun. It doesn't have to make sense, you just need to know that you can be prosecuted for it.
 
IIRC the ATF managed to get a conviction for possession of an unregistered machine gun due to an AR that occasionally misfired sending 3 rounds then jamming on number 4. It was even a well documented problem and the rifle was under recall for that very reason, but it still didn't help the guy.
Click to expand...

If you're referring to the one I think you are, I think it turned out the guy had a known history of making guns full auto and thumbing his nose at the ATF about it and been warning him about it. But this wasn't being revealed in most postings in forums about the issue. Going on memory here.

edit: I think I'm using the word "it" too much.
 
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<foil hat comment recanted>

The guy’s gun malfunctioned. He took it to a qualified professional and had it fixed. If he thought the malfunction was cool and continued to take it to the range, that would be different.
 
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I've never heard of that but....the problem with that is that it still creates case law which can now be used to get other people convicted with a malfunctioning gun. I highly doubt that a prosecutor is ONLY going to use that case law in the event that someone has a history of saying "--- you" to the ATF. The action of possessing a unregistered MG (or maybe it was transferring it to the other shooter) is what he was convicted of, not of being a pain to the ATF.

MtnCreek:
You do realize this is a public forum, and there is no validation as to ID when signing up, right? It wouldn't be very hard for an ATF agent so inclined to occasionally run a search for "unregistered machine gun" to get a decent list of people/events to look into...

Now maybe you'd like to serenade us with more tinhattery comments, but I thought it'd at least be a good idea to recommend that the OP not be in that situation if he could help it :D
 
Roger that! Foil hat recanted. The below still applies.

The guy’s gun malfunctioned. He took it to a qualified professional and had it fixed. If he thought the malfunction was cool and continued to take it to the range, that would be different.
Click to expand...

Hesher,
Glad you were able to get it fixed.
 
Just the fact that the FAQ exists means Bushmaster is/was aware M17Ss could do this and has/had a repair program for it. Why they told me to sent mine in to them and told the OP not to, I don't have clue at this point. S/N range maybe?

Well if the ATF comes knocking on my door, I've let you all know. In the meantime, my M17S has been fixed and is legal.

Hesher, just curious, how much did your gunsmith charge you? It may have been no higher than what Bushmaster (Remington) charged me to ship mine. $65. I keep wondering if that didn't include a repair charge. No note no nothing explaining it was included in the box. I had to go by what parts looked new to figure out what they did.
 
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No problem MtnCreek. I probably shoulda put the smiley a bit closer to my tinfoilhattery comment. That's the problem with web forums, I can just never seem to get the same humor typing as I can when talking.

OP, glad you got it fixed as well. Its definitely an interesting rifle!
 
Nevermind. Not worth the foil hat joke either. Left my computer earlier in the day, when I came back and finished the post, we'd moved past it.
 
W L Johnson said:
S/N range maybe?

Hesher, just curious, how much did your gunsmith charge you? It may have been no higher than what Bushmaster (Remington) charged me to ship mine. $65. I keep wondering if that didn't include a repair charge. No note no nothing explaining it was included in the box. I had to go by what parts looked new to figure out what they did.
Click to expand...

1. $65 is actually about right for shipping a firearm. I had to send in my Kel Tec pistol for some warranty repairs once and thats about what I paid. The parts, when they were for sale, would have cost about $30 and shop rate is about $85 an hour (around here), so he probably only charged you shipping.

2. I was never asked for a S/N at all. He was not interested.

3. My local gunsmith charged me $110 to tear down and clean the bolt, clean the gas port, and repair the hammer. He was unfamiliar with the gun at first and spent a few hours researching it before doing much of anything. I was not charged for his "self-education" time, but am quite happy that he was willing to take the time to learn this gun instead of telling me to take it elsewhere.

Well worth it to me! I just do not appreciate Bushmaster's lack of competent cust. service agents.

4. I appreciate the concern shown from some of you on the ATF topic. Thanx
 
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