Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
I managed to miss checking John Farnam's quips and quotes for a few weeks, or I would have seen this earlier.
There are those who avoid the ammunition choice decision completely and just use slugs in their fighting shotguns all the time. There is in fact something to be said for that. For those of us who like to have buckshot available as an option, it is critical not only to pattern the load of choice at various ranges, but also to practice the skill of range estimation.
Without being able to estimate relatively short ranges with fair accuracy, there is no way to know what is in range with buckshot and what is not. Buckshot can have a surprisingly short effective range, depending on the patterning ability of the gun and load. And no matter what, you still have to be able to HIT with whatever load you fire, if you are to deliver terminal effect on target...
lpl/nc
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http://www.defense-training.com/quips/15June08.html
When are we ever going to use this technique?
15 June 08
This from a friend with a State Training Academy. An example of, "When it' s least expected, you're elected!"
"Two of my rookie students got into gunfights over the last two weeks, one in the City, one in the County. Both used their issue Remington 870 shotguns, and both were compelled to swap from buckshot to a slug in order to complete their missions:
In the first case, my officer, responding to a domestic dispute, returned fire after being fired upon by the male suspect, armed with a pistol. After firing a single round of 00 Buck at the suspect, without apparent effect, my officer concluded he was out of range.
As he had been trained, he quickly and deftly swapped out to a slug (you call it an 'Ammo-Swap.' We call it a 'Select-a-Slug'), remounted the shotgun, and pressed off a single shot. The slug struck the standing suspect (range 25m) high in the center of the neck, just under his chin. Suspect was DRT, nearly decapitated. At least one of the buckshot pellets had also hit him, but failed to take him out of the fight.
The second officer was responding to an armed robbery. As he exited his vehicle, he received rifle fire from a single suspect using a bolt-gun (Rem M70, 308). As our officer ran to cover, using his 870, he fired once at the suspect, again with 00 Buck. No results.
Once behind cover, this officer also employed the Select-a-Slug option, and subsequently put a single slug through the suspect's sternum. Range was 20m. This suspect was also DRT!
Both officers called me to let me know they were okay and how much they appreciated their training.
So much for, 'Oh, come-on! When are we ever going to use this technique?' comment during range training!
Two in one week!"
Lesson: In much of what passes for "training," we spent entirely too much range time doing all those things we're already good at! Techniques and routines that are important, but are, by their very nature, awkward and clumsy, are seldom exercised, because, of course, we all want to look good.
Well, [those] who consistently "look good" on the range are obviously not challenging themselves and need to re-evaluate the worthiness of their ambitions!
Single-handed shooting, single-handed reloading, long-distance pistol shooting (15m-40m), shotgun speed-loading and ammunition swapping, retention and disarms, low-light shooting, transition from main pistol to backup, and from backup pistol to blade are all important components of every Operator's repertoire, but are not exercised nearly as much, nor as often, as they should be.
Savvy instructors at this particular state institution insisted students learned, and repeatedly exercised, ammunition-swapping with their 870 shotguns, despite all the whining!
We instructors are not always popular with our students (nor should we be!), until something like the foregoing happens. Our reward comes when our student is alive and well, and is able to tell us how much he appreciates us not listening to all his whining and driving forward anyway!
/John
There are those who avoid the ammunition choice decision completely and just use slugs in their fighting shotguns all the time. There is in fact something to be said for that. For those of us who like to have buckshot available as an option, it is critical not only to pattern the load of choice at various ranges, but also to practice the skill of range estimation.
Without being able to estimate relatively short ranges with fair accuracy, there is no way to know what is in range with buckshot and what is not. Buckshot can have a surprisingly short effective range, depending on the patterning ability of the gun and load. And no matter what, you still have to be able to HIT with whatever load you fire, if you are to deliver terminal effect on target...
lpl/nc
========
http://www.defense-training.com/quips/15June08.html
When are we ever going to use this technique?
15 June 08
This from a friend with a State Training Academy. An example of, "When it' s least expected, you're elected!"
"Two of my rookie students got into gunfights over the last two weeks, one in the City, one in the County. Both used their issue Remington 870 shotguns, and both were compelled to swap from buckshot to a slug in order to complete their missions:
In the first case, my officer, responding to a domestic dispute, returned fire after being fired upon by the male suspect, armed with a pistol. After firing a single round of 00 Buck at the suspect, without apparent effect, my officer concluded he was out of range.
As he had been trained, he quickly and deftly swapped out to a slug (you call it an 'Ammo-Swap.' We call it a 'Select-a-Slug'), remounted the shotgun, and pressed off a single shot. The slug struck the standing suspect (range 25m) high in the center of the neck, just under his chin. Suspect was DRT, nearly decapitated. At least one of the buckshot pellets had also hit him, but failed to take him out of the fight.
The second officer was responding to an armed robbery. As he exited his vehicle, he received rifle fire from a single suspect using a bolt-gun (Rem M70, 308). As our officer ran to cover, using his 870, he fired once at the suspect, again with 00 Buck. No results.
Once behind cover, this officer also employed the Select-a-Slug option, and subsequently put a single slug through the suspect's sternum. Range was 20m. This suspect was also DRT!
Both officers called me to let me know they were okay and how much they appreciated their training.
So much for, 'Oh, come-on! When are we ever going to use this technique?' comment during range training!
Two in one week!"
Lesson: In much of what passes for "training," we spent entirely too much range time doing all those things we're already good at! Techniques and routines that are important, but are, by their very nature, awkward and clumsy, are seldom exercised, because, of course, we all want to look good.
Well, [those] who consistently "look good" on the range are obviously not challenging themselves and need to re-evaluate the worthiness of their ambitions!
Single-handed shooting, single-handed reloading, long-distance pistol shooting (15m-40m), shotgun speed-loading and ammunition swapping, retention and disarms, low-light shooting, transition from main pistol to backup, and from backup pistol to blade are all important components of every Operator's repertoire, but are not exercised nearly as much, nor as often, as they should be.
Savvy instructors at this particular state institution insisted students learned, and repeatedly exercised, ammunition-swapping with their 870 shotguns, despite all the whining!
We instructors are not always popular with our students (nor should we be!), until something like the foregoing happens. Our reward comes when our student is alive and well, and is able to tell us how much he appreciates us not listening to all his whining and driving forward anyway!
/John
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