Buy or Reload?

[Scott-NC]

Let's say you had $750-$1000 now and you'll have $500-$750 a year for each of the next few years to spend on ammo. And your goals are 1)economy, 2) accuracy, 3) an enjoyable passtime/hobby, in that order. Specifically- you want to mostly build up lots of ammo for plinking, range practice, and SHTF scenarios. Let's say you shoot mostly 9mm, and .40, but a couple hundred rounds (annually) each of 38 Spl, 357 Mag, .257 roberts, 30-06, 30-30, .223, 7mm, 300 H&H mag, 12 Gauge, and a couple others.

And lets say you are a careful person, technically inclined, an ability to comprehend and execute the details of technical instructions, however you know no one that reloads and don't have anyone to show you how to get started.

And- You think you would enjoy the process of reloading, and have an appreciation for the possible increases in accuracy that can be gleaned by reloading.

I've read some older posts (example: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214) and I end up thinking- If I don't want to end up with 3 fingers per hand or studying for 80 hours before I create the first round- I'll just buy my ammo.

So here are the questions:

- With the dollar amounts mentioned above- is it better to buy ammo or reload, given the other variables.
- Can a newbie without experienced supervision be safe and productive with a few hours of working at this?
- If the decision were made to reload, is there a "kit" that would have everything needed to get started for the beginner- say 1 to 3 calibers?
- Given the available dollars mentioned, what would the advantages/disadvantages be of reloading vs. buying standard ammo.

Thanks Y'all

 

[rcmodel]

goals are 1)economy, 2) accuracy, 3) an enjoyable passtime/hobby, in that order.

Change your goals to #3 first, #2 second, and #1 third and you are good to go.

You have to love doing it as a hobby, or it will rather quickly become a disagreeable 2nd. job.
If you want a disagreeable 2nd. job to afford more ammo?
McDonald's is always hiring.

Accuracy & ammo designed for your specific use should be the secondary goal.

Saving money is last, because you will spend more money on equipment, and books, and different components to experiment with then you can save.

Besides that you will shoot a lot more too, so overall you won't save anything.
Just shoot more.

rc

 

[hogshead]

Another well said RC!

 

[mbopp]

Yeah, nobody "saves money" reloading, you just get to shoot more and have the satisfaction of tailoring the load to your gun.
You can feel a primer that doesn't seat quite right, verify your powder charge, and check your bullets before you use them.

 

[1hobie]

When you reload, the cost is a variable. You have your start-up costs. After you get set up and are producing viable rounds, the costs per round goes down.
The more you reload a caliber the less it costs you up until the brass wears out.
The concept that it will cost you more because you're producing your own ammo at less cost per round therefore you shoot more doesn't add up. You can shoot more rounds for the same cost it would take to buy it.

Hobie

BTW, To the OP, as you asked some very pertinent questions, reloading is a very exacting endeavour. It's something that requires a great deal of attention, research, and appropriate questions.

You're on the right course!

 

[Arkansas Paul]

Yep, you won't save any money reloading, that's for sure. Oh, you'll spend less money per round, no doubt, but you'll be putting a lot more of them down range.

 

[gamestalker]

The learning part is certainly the most important element of reloading and isn't for everyone. It isn't a process for those who like to just look at the pictures, or use only the stuff that seems pertinent or important. In short, if you are not serious about the time it takes to comprehend all elements of the process, it probably isn't for you.

When I started reloading the only resources available were books, unless you were fortunate enough to know someone willing to take you through it hands on.

And regarding economics of reloading, I've never really considered that as one of the reasons for having taken up the hobby.

I once worked in the sporting goods industry, guns and reloading specifically. In all honesty, I saw a good number of individuals who I had sold complete reloading set ups to that blew up their firearms. Mostly because they were too impatient to first read and understand the process. I knew 2 guys in particular that, even though everything about their reloads clearly indicated something was not right ended up blowing their expensive firearms to pieces. One had clearly not resized his brass for the .270 win thinking it wasn't necessary and when he shot the first round that had the bullet fall completely inside the case blew up his brand new Browning A-Bolt II. The other guy had nearly double charged his cartridges because he read in one of his books that compressed charges were perfectly safe to shoot. He skipped the part about what type powders and specific applications only part.
GS

 

[Otto]

You've listed a lot of different calibers to load for.
Pistol ammo should done on a progressive or at least a turret press, otherwise it's a slow tedious process.
Magnum rifle cartridges like the 300 H&H require a stout single stage press.
Shotgun shells require a different press altogether than those used for metallic reloading.
There really isn't a one-size-fits-all reloading press.
As far as cost go, components like bullets, primers, powder and brass usually exceed the costs of the reloading equipment.

 

[James2]

I will take a crack at one question:

Can a newbie without experienced supervision be safe and productive with a few hours of working at this?

Only if, that newbie can read, comprehend, and follow instructions, and will take the time to do the reading.

The process is clearly described in the reloading manuals. It would be worth your time and expense to buy a manual first and read, then you will have a better idea if you really want to do this and what is required.

It is not rocket science, but it does require attention to detail.

 

[4895]

You can save a lot of money reloading. It really depends upon how much money you put up front. When I started, I bought a Lee Anniversary Kit for $75 new. I added 2 loading blocks and caliper set. With the dies and used brass, my first round cost me about $150. Now, a few thousand rounds later, I have collected more used brass off the floor of the range and spent many $$ on components. The cost really is less than you think, but you have to choose CHEAP, FAST, or MATCH-GRADE. You can't have it all. With a single stage press kit ($110), you can reasonably produce 25 rounds an hour as a newb. Once you get the hang of things, 50 rounds an hour is right on. When you start to process your brass in batches, it goes quickly. For instance, say you have 500 pieces of .38 brass and one night you spray them down with lube and resize them all. Another night you prime all of them. The following weekend you bell the case mouths, charge with powder, and seat and crimp the bullets. You can easily make 500 rounds of .38 special for $200 including startup costs. Thats about .40 a round. The next batch of .38 special should cost about $50 for components. Thats about .10 a round. Now you have made 1000 rounds for $250. Thats about .25 a round. As you can see, the more you load, the cheaper it becomes. If you decide to sell your equipment, you should recoup half of your investment. Now you are talking about .13 a round to make 1000 rounds of .38 special! Thats $6.50 a box. The cost savings on rifle is deceiving as you tend to need more tools and learn tricks along the way. If you stay away from RCBS, Hornady, Lyman, Dillon, etc. you will save on startup. Welcome to The High Road.

 

[coalman]

I reload to save money. And, I shoot more while saving money. I consider most factory ammo accurate enough for my needs. I would rather not reload. But, saving money rules. I guess I'm weird like that.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

With a budget of between $500 and $750 you should easily be able to buy what little ammo you said you need.

BUT

Reloading is a great hobby that is infectious in short order. I do a lot of reloading in the Winter months when it's just too cold to shoot much. I do most of my brass prep during the Winter.

As for accuracy, if you take your time and follow good reloading practices you will be able to make what is probably the most accurate ammo you will ever shoot. Also, you can custom build any ammo you want or need for any rifle/handgun you own.

Saving money just isn't going to happen. Sure you will shoot a lot more for the money you spend but I know of no one who actually saves money. Example, if you have $20 to spend on .38 Special ammo you can buy just over 1 box of 50 rounds for that $20 while you can build over 200 rounds for that same $20. It's been my experience most if not all shooters will shoot the whole 200 rounds and not stop at 50 rounds, so, like I said, you won't save any money but you will shoot a lot more for the money you spend...

 

[Shoobee]

Done both. Reloaded and bought. Reloading was fun until it got tedious and then it was just more work.

Now I just buy the premium ammo. And that's more fun now.

 

[Lost Sheep]

Posing such a question on a reloading forum (where, presumably everyone reading your thread is an active reloader or considering it) is virtually guaranteed to get answers biased towards, "yes".

But, let me count the ways:

Economy: Depending on what cartridges you are reloading (and whether or not you want to count your time and the up-front equipment costs) you can save anywhere from just a little to 80% or more of your ammo costs. (9mm is very close to no savings. 500 S&W, my friend's ammo costs are $0.75 per round, factory loaded ammo is $3.00 each for comparable ammo. More exotic calibers (especially rifle calibers) can save even more. Some rounds are not even available on a regular basis at any price.

Quality: Ammo you craft yourself can be tuned to your firearms particular characteristics. Handloaders for rifles quite often find some individual guns have quite striking differences in group size when shooting tuned ammunition.

Knowledge: As you study reloading, you will, perforce, also study internal ballistics. The study of internal ballistics leads into the study of how your firearm works.

Customization: Ammo you load yourself can be tuned to your particular needs. My friend with the 500 S&W loads full power loads and "powder puff" loads that clock 350 grain slugs a little under 800 feet per second. I know that's more than a G.I. 45 ACP's power and momentum, but they shoot like 22 rimfire in that big, heavy gun. Great for fun, familiarization, training and letting the curious bystander go for a "test drive" with a super-light load, a medium load, a heavy load and, if they are still game one of the big boomers. This tends to avoid the "rear sight in the forehead" mark.

Satisfaction: Punching small bunches of small, medium or large holes in paper or bringing down a game or food animal with ammunition you crafted yourself has a good deal of satisfaction. Same reason I prefer to make my own biscuits instead of store-bought.

Smug satisfaction: When the ammo shelves are bare during a market or political scare, loaders are demonstrably less affected by the shortages. A couple of pounds of powder, a thousand primers and bullets (or few pounds of lead) and a hundred cartridge cases wouldn't fill a small book carton, but lets the loader know he can shoot while price-gougers take advantage of non-loaders.

Self-satisfaction: The repetitive, calm, attentive concentration of the reloading activities is often found to be so much fun as to bring to the shooter's mind the question, "Do I reload so I can shoot shoot or do I shoot so I can reload?". Some find loading to be as satisfying a hobby as shooting or fly-tying or many other hobbies.

The more fanatical among us combine a couple of the features I have mentioned and, instead of shooting for bullseye accuracy at the range, reload in a search for the "magic load" that achieves perfection in a given rifle. Then, they move on to the next target, which is another rifle and another tuned load. But you do have to be at least a little fanatical to even get it. It is the hunt they seek, for they enjoy the quest more than the goal.

I am sure there are many other reasons, but these are the main ones I can think of.

Let's say you had $750-$1000 now and you'll have $500-$750 a year for each of the next few years to spend on ammo. And your goals are 1)economy, 2) accuracy, 3) an enjoyable passtime/hobby, in that order. Specifically- you want to mostly build up lots of ammo for plinking, range practice, and SHTF scenarios. Let's say you shoot mostly 9mm, and .40, but a couple hundred rounds (annually) each of 38 Spl, 357 Mag, .257 roberts, 30-06, 30-30, .223, 7mm, 300 H&H mag, 12 Gauge, and a couple others.[\QUOTE]

And lets say you are a careful person, technically inclined, an ability to comprehend and execute the details of technical instructions, however you know no one that reloads and don't have anyone to show you how to get started. [\QUOTE]

- Can a newbie without experienced supervision be safe and productive with a few hours of working at this?

And- You think you would enjoy the process of reloading, and have an appreciation for the possible increases in accuracy that can be gleaned by reloading.

I've read some older posts (example: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=238214) and I end up thinking- If I don't want to end up with 3 fingers per hand or studying for 80 hours before I create the first round- I'll just buy my ammo.

My formal instruction consisted of watching the guy who sold my press to me load 3 rounds as he explained each step, then him watching over my shoulder as I loaded the next 3 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step and answered all my questions and verified I understood all. It took probably over half an hour to load those six rounds, but it was worth the learning. I educated myself after that by reading and loading carefully.

I could have learned a whole lot more with more instruction, but I was careful, did not push any performance envelopes and knew most of the risks. There was no internet in 1975, nor even instructional videos.

Yes, it can be done. You can do it.

Your hypothetical handloading candidate is well-qualified to load, technically skilled. Reloading isn't rocket science, though it does involve smoke and fire and things that go very fast, if you can change a tire and bake a soufle you can reload successfully. If you can figure your way through algebra, you can handload ammunition better than factory ammo.

So here are the questions:

- With the dollar amounts mentioned above- is it better to buy ammo or reload, given the other variables.

In the summer of 2010 I repopulated my loading bench with all new stuff (except a scale and the bench itself) . I got a Lee Classic Turret (plenty adequate to handle all your listed calibers except 12 gauge) I could have started from scratch and gotten by for got by well under $800 for 8 pistol and rifle calibers including shipping. Add $100-$150 for a 12 gauge setup and and there you are.

I opine that twelve hundred dollars will buy you a first-class setup to load all the calibers you listed (plus the extra one), including the 12 gauge and enough components to fill your declared shooting quantity for two to three years.

After that, it's all profit. (Unless you want to count your time, but remember to subtract the value of what you learn from loading your own.)

- If the decision were made to reload, is there a "kit" that would have everything needed to get started for the beginner- say 1 to 3 calibers?

I am a fan of assembling your own kit. Every kit has stuff you don't need and lacks stuff you do. Also some stuff you do need, you will find you prefer some other maker's product, so you will be supplementing and trading stuff, which negates much of the savings and convenience of a kit assembled by some marketing "genius" who is attempting to put together a kit designed, not for you, but for some common denominator.

Most kits do not include anything for any specific caliber. You buy your own dies. Many progressive kits do, and Kempf's gun shop does have dies included with the Lee Classic Turret, but few others do.

True, a kit will get you loading faster and with less up-front study, but assembling your own kit involves some education which will be EXTREMELY valuable to you. That up-front work pays dividends.

- Given the available dollars mentioned, what would the advantages/disadvantages be of reloading vs. buying standard ammo.

The savings on your handloads/reloads continues indefinitely.

The potentially superior quality of your ammunition continues indefinitely.

Refer to the other things I mentioned at the top of my post.

Thanks Y'all

You're welcome. Thanks for asking our advice

I hope my rambling is not off-putting and proves as useful as the effort to read it.

Lost Sheep

 

[bubbacrabb]

I think if you plan on doing it for a long while its worth it. I've got well over what you mentioned in a budget just in start up costs. Tool heads, dies, dillon trimmer, press, tumbler, media seperator, scales, media, polish etc etc. It never seams to stop. But I got a lot of really good tools to do something I find almost as enjoyable for the time being. The guy I talked to about reloading told me that he once thought it was fun also, and he could care less if he loaded another round. I imagine some day I'll feel like that but not hopefully for a long long time! The way you sounded though, I wonder if it would be worth it to you to reload. I spend over 1000 dollars just in components easily every 6 months. If you plan to load that many different calibers you're going to be in real deep! its fun, but dont do it just to save money. You wont. I still dont let my wife know what this really costs. I shoot 5 times as much now as before, and spend way more than I did before. It just made my want to shoot that much more.

 

[elrowe]

I started reloading to save money... Like others have mentioned, I have taken advantage of the cheap ammo by shooting more... If I ignore the startup costs, and I managed the round count better, it's about 1/3 less for my 9mm and .40 than buying factory target loads.

Where I see the best benefit is centerfire rifle, particularly less common chamberings like .257 Roberts:

Brass: "Free"
.257 100 gr. Nosler Balistic Tip: $0.56
39 grains powder: $0.156
Primer: $0.018

This makes each round cost only $0.734 while a box of 117 Grain Remington Core-Lokt is about $1.15 per shot, roughly a 36% savings (I shoot about four times more when I reload, quickly blowing the savings, but improving my skills).

Now the real benefit - the factory loads only post 2700 fps mv, and have a pretty lousy bullet, while I get a bit over 3000 fps and much better intermediate and terminal ballistics from the Noslers.

 

[Lizard1911]

I started about two years ago. With less than half of your upper starting limit. Read. Read. Read. I personally know no one else who reloads. The information and advise offered here, will help tremendously. (Listen to RC)

The first and likely most important piece of advise is to buy a manual, or two. Read front to back before bolting press to bench. If I can do it, and still have all my eyes and fingers, anybody with a little comprehension can.

Good luck, be safe, and have fun.
Steve.

 

[Crunchy Frog]

I sometimes tell people that if you have the ability to make a fried egg and a grill cheese sandwich, you have the necessary technical skills to handload. That is an oversimplification, of course, but handloading is not terribly complicated. On the other hand, people like to cut corners and ignore safety warnings should not handload.

As to per-round savings, it varies depending on the type of ammo. The most expensive component, generally, is the brass. Handgun brass can be reloaded more times than high power rifle cases so there is a greater savings there over time. If you load a common caliber (9mm for example), you can scrounge brass or buy range brass for next to nothing. I reload a lot of .38 Special and .45 ACP and much of it is found or given to me by non-handloading friends. By contrast, I wanted more .41 Magnum brass not too long ago and had to hunt at the gun show to keep from paying close to $30/100 for factory new brass.

Bullet type also affects the per-round savings. If you purchase high-end factory jacketed bullets, they are considerably more expensive than bulk packaged hard cast lead bullets. If you have a Glock, lead bullets are not an option.

Aside from price, one advantage to handloading is that you can create ammo for a specific purpose. You can make ammo that is not available commercially. I started shooting cowboy action about two years ago. My primary rifle/pistol load is a .38 Special 105 grain truncated cone flat point bullet (feeds well in the rifle) at about 900 feet per second. I don't think this load is available from any of the large commercial manufacturers. It probably costs me less than $10 in components to produce 100 rounds. Not long ago I saw a 50 round box of Winchester "cowboy" ammunition in .44 Special for forty bucks. I could not afford to shoot cowboy if I had to buy factory ammo.

My recommendation is that you find someone locally who has been handloading for a while and let them show you their setup. If you are involved in some sort of shooting activity (like IDPA, or high power rifle matches, or COWBOY), ask the other shooters. If not, ask at a local gun club or at a local gun shop. You can figure it out on your own by reading a reloading manual and instructions, but it will make more sense with some hands-on demonstration.

Send me a PM if I can help you. I am in South Carolina.

 

[wingman]

I have 40 years plus as a reloader honestly I don't feel excited about going to the range with commercial ammo simply mine is more accurate and for me that is what shooting is about,accuracy. I do believe years back I saved money in reloading, now with cost of equipment/components I doubt it will save if you buy ammo in bulk especially 9mm or 223 however again reloading is part of the hobby of shooting serious doubt I would shoot if I couldn't reload but I'm old and sort of set in my ways.

oh yes, it does not take great skill to reload just patience and attention to detail, good log books help.

 

[dbarnhart]

I beg to differ, wingman. My 223 reloads cost me $118/thousand. (and by casting my own bullets, by .45acp reloads are $70/thousand)

For me, reloading means that cost is no longer the limiting factor on how much I can shoot.

 

[BADUNAME37]

In the past few years, I have reloaded more than I shot. So, I have pretty much caught up on reloading the components I have. For certain loads, I use Barnes Solid Copper X Bullets, and the price of those is pretty high. However, I am still loading something that is more accurate than I can get with factory ammo, and even with the higher, expensive pills I am using, I would say that I am still saving money.

Of course, the X Bullets I only shoot once in a great while just to confirm that I can hit something at the intended distance. I don't go to the range with the determination that I am going to burn up 200 rounds of loaded Barnes X Bullets, but instead have loads that are a lot cheaper to shoot, which I don't mind plinking with.

So, you see, there is variety in loading your own, if you wish. If I were to go out and purchase the Factory Ammo that uses the same Barnes Solid Copper X Bullets I reload, I know the ammo would be at least twice as expensive as what I am reloading!

I was surprised that the cheap Armscor Bullets I load and the Barnes Copper X bullets were both shooting consistently the same (virtually the same POI) at 200 yards. I like that, as I don't have to play with my scope or hold the scope a certain way (e.g., down 1" and left 1.5") to shoot the cheap ammo out of the guns that are sighted in for the expensive pills.

I only went to a friend's house to reload one box of 20 rifle cartridges while he walked me through it. That is all he did to help me. I knew I wanted to reload after that experience, so I got set up with an RCBS Rock Chucker kit. Everything else, I learned from reloading! For instance, I ended up realizing I needed a case trimmer the more I would reload, so I got one. If you don't mind reading a lot of different sources on the subject, you can really gain much expertise, as you are reading about how others managed to solve problems before you even get there!

 

[kingmt]

I save money & shoot more. My pick of factory ammo I shoot is almost $200 per 100 & I load equivalent rounds for about $25 per 100. I can't shoot enough to shoot up my savings. Even if I did as long as it is being used that just means I'm saving more.

9mm cost about half to build(including shipping) then the shelf price(not counting gas & tax) but others do much better then me. If I want 10 rounds to try I just throw them together & probably can't even buy the same thing.

I taught myself with a Speer book. I would read a paragraph then try what I read.

You can buy most in a kit but you may not need some things & have to add others. I really like the Lee tools. Everything else I have tried seems really over priced for what you get in return. For the most part I like the Lee better & it is cheaper. I just wish I had known it was better before I bought the other name.

 

[WaywardSon]

There is a lot of good advice here for someone looking to get into reloading. While the savings can be substantial, a lot of that depends on caliber and intended use. Reloading 9mm FMJ doesn't make economic sense...to me. I don't shoot THAT much of it and there are always deals to be had there. On the other hand, reloading .357 Sig for self defense makes a great deal of sense. I can load that using the Hornady XTP bullet for $7.12 per box of 25...which is about 1/3 the cost of factory ammo. In general, the larger the caliber and the more specialized the load, the more potential there is for savings. Whether you look at it as fewer cents per round, or more shooting for the same money doesn't matter...the savings are there.

That said...saving money is not why I reload. I enjoy the process and find my time at the bench relaxing, interesting and productive. For me at least, there is a lot of satisfaction in tighter groups, better terminal performance and perhaps most of all, the ability to produce ammo that cannot be bought at any price. Especially if you cast your own bullets...but that's another thread

Will you make some mistakes? Of course...but if you reload using known reliable data from a trusted source, pay attention to detail and double check your work, you are unlikely to make mistakes that hurt you. When in doubt, there are a lot of folks here who have BTDT and are glad to help. Jump in...it's a great hobby!

 

[crracer_712]

Posing such a question on a reloading forum (where, presumably everyone reading your thread is an active reloader or considering it) is virtually guaranteed to get answers biased towards, "yes".

Don't you know that you have to seek out the answer you wish to have?


I buy and reload. I buy target ammo from Wally World so I've got some good brass to reload for.

 

[Hacker15E]

I don't think it has to be one or the other.

No reason why you can't apportion some of that money to buying factory ammo (especially for some of the calibers where it's less financially beneficial to reload), and some of it to buying reloading equipment and supplies.

Reloading is a tremendously rewarding hobby in and of itself.