BWAH? CMP 1911's Available Soon?

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This would prompt me to buy my first 1911. I came of age in the age of polymer (or at least started earning enough money, I'm almost 58) and had polymer pistols my whole adult life (starting at about 31). Back in '86 when they went to the M9 I was excited because I just assumed all those old 1911 would hit the CMP and other outlets. They didn't. If they do, I will buy one. May start a 1911 trend for me in my dotage!
 
These guns will cost several times what they are actually worth.

The president won't release them.

They will be worn out and unsafe to shoot.

It will take years to make them available to the public.

Worthless as a range gun and too heavy to carry.

All true. Move along, nothing to see here. ;)
 
The amount of negativity toward this absolutely amazes.

I didn't expect "everyone" to jump on the bandwagon, but I'm surprised at how many people are poo-poo-ing this.
 
I will be buying one.. or two - don't care about numbers, parts, blah , blah.
If you don't want one, fine - more for ME!
 
The amount of negativity toward this absolutely amazes.
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Yep, always going to be some who won't buy one based on what they know about the condition, even though nobody actually knows yet what will be offered. Some also know that there won't be any offered for sale. I would prefer to hold my money and wait and see.

In the past you could inspect the rifles at the two stores or just order one and take what they send you, sort of like buying any used gun online.
 
I am amazed at the idea posted repeatedly on this thread that these are not collectable.
I haunt the C&R subforum on Calguns, and here and there somebody finds and buys a US Property marked 1911. I rarely see them go for less than $800 and people seem real excited to grab one.

Gents, this isn't 1964 when you could just walk into a gun shop and take your pick of these. They really are few and far between and getting scarcer.

Besides......this is likely to be the very last batch of weapons ever made available by the military to the public.....EVER.

Not collectable........pshhhh. "Collectable" has nothing to do with practical condition and everything to do with demand.
If collectors demand them......they are collectable.

Watch what happens to the price of these when the CMP runs out.
 
bainter1212 said:
I am amazed at the idea posted repeatedly on this thread that these are not collectable.
I haunt the C&R subforum on Calguns, and here and there somebody finds and buys a US Property marked 1911. I rarely see them go for less than $800 and people seem real excited to grab one.

Gents, this isn't 1964 when you could just walk into a gun shop and take your pick of these. They really are few and far between and getting scarcer.

Besides......this is likely to be the very last batch of weapons ever made available by the military to the public.....EVER.

Not collectable........pshhhh. "Collectable" has nothing to do with practical condition and everything to do with demand.
If collectors demand them......they are collectable.

Watch what happens to the price of these when the CMP runs out.
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^ Yeah. What he said.
 
I can think of few things I'd be as leery of as A "US Property" marked M1911A1 with parts numbers on all the parts.

Only thing I'd view more askance would be all matched numbers.

As far as I know, the only enumerated part on a 1911A1 is the frame over on the starboard side.

There are a number or parts that, stamped with a number, those numbers would need to be near polished off so the part would work (like the barrel link or the trigger bow).

Only thing bad about DCM selling 1911A1 (or 1911) would be having to leave Anniston knowing that your chosen one was waiting on your LGS to perform the transaction.
 
Alaskan, no need to go to all the effort. These old guns are going to be pricey for what they are, and certainly not all matching numbers. We could get a Turkish or Phillipino made gun for less with a better finish. And they could handle hollow points.

Nah, a rattly old .45 rated with Ball ammo only, twice refurbished isn't all that. It's not like we are buying the same gun carried by a SGM in the Ia Drang Valley, or Alvin York in France.

Or like the one Dad brought home to our apartment near Ludwigsburg when the Russians started building the Berlin Wall.

Why would I want one of those? I need to find a local CMP club . . .
 
I'll take a wait and see attitude to these 1911's, if and when they actually come to market. Sure, I'm guessing that a few might have matching SN's and be in "like new" condition, but those will be few and far between. CMP will price them accordingly, and end up on their auction site. Given that many have been in service since before the Great War, and no new ones have been issued to the Govt. since- goss I don't know when, my guess is that most will be beaters and have little a value as collector items. The ones I remember from the service in the 1960's were big rattle-traps back then.

Since the CMP rules have now changed to allow just about anything in the Service Pistol matches, there's no need for them there anymore. It'll be fun to dream in the meantime though.
 
Tirod said:
Alaskan, no need to go to all the effort. These old guns are going to be pricey for what they are, and certainly not all matching numbers. We could get a Turkish or Phillipino made gun for less with a better finish. And they could handle hollow points.
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Why the efff would I want a gun made in Turkey or the Philippines? And who cares if it handles hollow points or not? I'm not buying a gun to carry into a street fight at my local dive bar. (And if I were, I would NOT be buying a gun made in the Philippines.)

Tirod said:
It's not like we are buying the same gun carried by a SGM in the Ia Drang Valley, or Alvin York in France.
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True, it will be impossible to assign any historical provenance to any of these guns, and if you could, they wouldn't be sold through CMP; they would be sold through one the big auction houses. However, objects have history, even if they don't have provenance. I can't prove that Audie Murphy carried my M1 in Germany, but my M1 is a good specimen of the type a gun our soldiers carried in the Second World War.

springer99 said:
I'll take a wait and see attitude to these 1911's, if and when they actually come to market.
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Wait and see and they might all be gone. Like I said, in this political environment, this may be a short-lived, if not still born, experiment. I missed out on a carbine; I won't be making that mistake again.


springer99 said:
Given that many have been in service since before the Great War, and no new ones have been issued to the Govt. since- goss I don't know when, my guess is that most will be beaters and have little a value as collector items. The ones I remember from the service in the 1960's were big rattle-traps back then.
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I am by no means an expert on the history of the 1911, but I believe you are correct. I recall reading somewhere that no 1911's were made after WWII, and I recall seeing a documentary (Guns of WWII on History channel I believe) where someone made the assertion that 1911's of the Vietnam era were, indeed, simply wore out from use in WWII and Korea.

That said, I'm still surprised at all the negativity around this. Do people actually believe they are going to buy an 80 year old gun that will be in as good of condition as a brand new, NIB, gun of the same or similar model? Why would anyone think that? I doubt ANYONE would buy one of these as their daily CCW carry gun. (Although, I wouldn't be surprised if a good 1911 gunsmith couldn't take one and make it into something you would carry everyday, but why go there.)

springer99 said:
Since the CMP rules have now changed to allow just about anything in the Service Pistol matches, there's no need for them there anymore. It'll be fun to dream in the meantime though.
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Yeah, I don't understand that rule change, or agree with it, but that's not up to me. But you're right, a competitor would probably be at a disadvantage with one of these 1911's-although, I never felt I was disadvantaged with my Garand against all those AR15's-even though I probably was.
 
P5 Guy said:
I'm the odd-ball here, I have no burning desire to own a 1911 wherever it comes from.
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LOL. You know what? Other than these, neither do I!

I don't particularly like autoloaders at all, in any configuration. If these weren't pieces of American history, I would have paid no notice.
 
You know, Alaskan, if you are truly interested in a genuine U.S. Govt owned 1911, and you are willing to spend up to a couple of grand as you stated earlier in the thread,
You have other options besides waiting for the CMP to release theirs.
There are plenty on gunbroker right now within your budget.
Some 1911's as well as 1911A1's. I see original finish on many, some in 90% or better condition.
You will be able to see the exact gun you are bidding on, and know what you are getting for your money. You can weed through them and pay less for a shooter, or more for a collectible.
 
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silicosys4 said:
You know, Alaskan, if you are truly interested in a genuine U.S. Govt owned 1911, and you are willing to spend up to a couple of grand as you stated earlier in the thread,
You have other options besides waiting for the CMP to release theirs.
There are plenty on gunbroker right now within your budget.
Some 1911's as well as 1911A1's. I see original finish on many, some in 90% or better condition.
You will be able to see the exact gun you are bidding on, and know what you are getting for your money. You can weed through them and pay less for a shooter, or more for a collectible.
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Thanks, I'll keep that in mind, but I generally make it a rule that I don't deal online for guns or anything that costs more than about $100. There are exceptions, of course, but gunbroker et al make me extremely nervous. I wouldn't feel very comfortable sending someone a thousand dollars over the internet.
 
You know, silicosys4, I just looked at GB and am surprised at how many are available. And you're right, 2 grand will probably get the job done, though there are many that exceed that threshold.

I wonder if those prices will drop once the CMP 1911's start hitting the market.

Something else to consider, and this may be apples to oranges....

When I bough my SA Garand, I bought it from an FFL/LGS. Of course, I got to look at it, hold it, etc etc before I bought it, but I paid $750 for it back in 1996. It was/is probably equivalent to "Service Grade," which is currently, 19 years later....$730.

So obviously, I WAAAAAAAAY over paid, and that is ENTIRELY my fault for not doing my homework. But you can see my reluctance to go the GB route, given my past experience.
 
When I was in ROTC (yeah, yeah, keep the comments to yourselves) the surplus 1911's that we shot had bad linkages, bad bushings, and shot out barrels. Everything else was fine.

So get a CMP non-matching rattle-trap 1911, change out the barrel, linkage, and bushing, and you're laughing.
 
SuperNaut said:
When I was in ROTC (yeah, yeah, keep the comments to yourselves) the surplus 1911's that we shot had bad linkages, bad bushings, and shot out barrels. Everything else was fine.

So get a CMP non-matching rattle-trap 1911, change out the barrel, linkage, and bushing, and you're laughing.
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Thanks for spilling the beans. That was my secret plan all along.
 
The amount of negativity toward this absolutely amazes.
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Me too. I typically abhor cynicism, since it represents the ultimate "stick in the mud" excuse for people not to innovate or learn new things. In the gun world this can mean equipment, or training. Fine if some have a training curve that stopped abruptly in the '70s, but times have moved on.

Anyway, happy to see that negative attitude come into play here too. If it proves true, that means a shorter line.
 
Do people actually believe they are going to buy an 80 year old gun that will be in as good of condition as a brand new, NIB, gun of the same or similar model? Why would anyone think that? I doubt ANYONE would buy one of these as their daily CCW carry gun.
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I think people believe that these 80 year old guns that are likely worn out and will need new parts will be priced higher than a comparable used gun already on the market, and priced disproportionately to a brand new in the box 1911 of a quality manufacturer. Since no one knows what the CMP 1911's are going to retail for, people are assuming the worst. Many of them are also calculating club fees into the equation if they are not members of a CMP affiliated club currently. Or the cost of a C&R FFL.

Those who are not prepared to purchase from the CMP are watching the dollar signs pile up before the first one even hits the shelf. We're talking about restricted numbers annually, from a grand total of pistols that is no where near what it used to be, thanks to Clinton the 1st.

Now, for arguments sake, lets say these 1911's hit the shelf at $800. With club fees, transfer fees, etc. you could easily add an additional $100-$150 in cost, pushing that 1911 near a grand. Considering they will likely need parts, the total cost will exceed $1000.
Now why, I ask, would I spend $1000 to get an old with new parts 1911 that might say Colt, or Remington on the slide, when I could put that $1000 directly toward a brand new Colt, Remington, S&W or Ruger 1911? In some cases, that $1000 with get the gun, a few spare mags, and a few boxes of quality ammo.

On the other hand, if these are selling through CMP for $500 or less, then oh gods yes, people will snatch them up by the dozen, because even though a Turkish or Filipino gun may be price comparable, a USGI milsurp 1911 has a historical significance the foreign guns will never have.

I'm a history buff, especially military history. I'm going to take a wait and see approach to these 1911's. If I wait too long and miss out, well, it's not like no one makes a 1911 anymore. The 1911 has never been high on my want list, anyway.
 
If these go for $800 at CMP, as you surmise...add $25 to join Garand Collector's Association (I just did.) and add $30 for a C&R (I just renewed mine) or $30 for an FFL fee, add about $50 for shipping. So that's an additional $105 yeah that's pretty close to a grand.

Yep, you can go buy any of a number of high quality 1911 type pistols for a grand. And what you will have is just that. A high quality, NIB, 1911 type pistol with absolutely no historical significance.

Like I said, no one should think he or she is buying a CCW gun; He or she who buys one of these is buying Americana.

The value of these guns is not in what they are; it's in what they were.
 
If all 100k get released, they won't exactly be rare collectors items....I once set my mind to collecting a rifle model that only had 12k made and was discontinued in 1955. I figured they were a rarity. I bought 3 with in 6 months. Two of them were 20 minutes from my house....I passed on a 4th in the same area....If 100k surplus 1911's get turned loose, I figure there will be enough to go around.
 
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