(CA) Large Gun Collection Stolen (reporter needs a time-out)

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I have a few thoughts on this one:

1. In California, this kind of reporting is considered unbiased.

2. Our legislature has debated, and will sooner or later pass, legislation that would make this guy a criminal for not preventing the crime.

3. It's not that hard to build a $70k collection. If you collect 100 guns, they only have to cost bout $500 per piece, once you add the taxes and transfer fees to the retail price.

4. I can't blame this guy for having his collection in storage. If things work out, my gun room may turn into a baby's room this next year. I'll have to put most of my collection into storage for a time. That's just life.

5. This theft is a good reason that one should apply a dispersed asset strategy like the old Red Army. Don't keep all your guns in one spot. Scatter them, and be assured that you won't lose everything.

Cheers,
Mauserguy
 
Is this the same Lodi, CA that was home to the terrorist training camp some time ago?

</tinfoil hat>
 
if you got coin to have a 70 k gun collection in Lodi , you can afford a house with a safe in Lodi. just like the song.. stuck in Lodi again.

My place is on the market currently ( i know thats another thread) but i dint want my stuff in there unsupervised, even locked up. We're living with in laws until it sells. I have 1 handgun here now and 1 long gun the rest is in my dads safe

i'm paying 100 a month to have most of my other crap that wouldnt break my heart if it was stolen in a storage facility. its got 24 hour live in folks and locked gates but i am still not going to put my gun collection in there. and it aint worth anywhere 70k
 
Whoever wrote this article needs to go back to journalism school, or go their in the first place. Trying to use puns, improper grammar, incomplete sentences. A third-grader could have written a better article.

A time out is not enough!
 
Most storage places have managers that live on site and have some type of security system.
My friend who is in the army had her stuff in storage (Public Storage) which had security and a resident manager. Someone broke into her unit, and left the door open when they were done. The bandit stole nothing, but just trashed and broke things. Point is: the door was open for about a WEEK. Those places are NOT secure at all. Sure they have all those measures, but they sure don't care to use them. And I didn't see any cameras in the units/hallways to the units themselves - usually just one at the main gate.

Anyhow, I would not jump to conclusions with out enough info. Perhaps the guy lost his place of residency, or feared a raid on his home. If he had no friends' home to put them, that could be the best he could think of. Not sure why a bank vault didn't cross his mind. Probably cheaper too, and a lot more secure. But it does make me wonder about the other possible scenarios being brought up...but with a report, in that style, I need more info to make any decent decision.
 
Storage facilities are generally gated.
Admission is generally monitored.
The rented spaces are padlocked.
Then there is a safe.

Not his fault for anything other than maybe choosing the wrong storage facility. These places are supposed to keep your stuff safe, and on top of that, he had another safe.

Although, how/why would thieves find his particular safe? Perhaps an inside job? I'm assuming this storage facility had dozens of rooms.
 
some other reports of it, former one listed below...

http://www.lodinews.com/articles/2008/01/08/news/1_guns_080108.txt

http://www.news10.net/display_story.aspx?storyid=37118
1_guns_080108.jpg




By Layla Bohm
News-Sentinel Staff Writer
Updated: Tuesday, January 8, 2008 6:20 AM PST
Comments (75 comment(s))

When Kenneth Warren moved to San Joaquin County to take care of his elderly parents, he wanted to make sure his gun collection was safe.

He kept about 50 guns and as much as 2,000 rounds of ammunition in a double-walled, fireproof safe that, when empty, weighed 1,300 pounds. He moved it into a climate-controlled metal and concrete storage unit at U-Haul in Lodi. And he even got a second-floor storage unit for added security.

But on Dec. 31, thieves managed to get into the gated 450 N. Cherokee Lane storage business. They made it past a locked door, up the stairs, down a hallway and around a corner. And then they broke the lock and managed to drag the full safe back out the way they came.

"I had it in the biggest, most secure safe the company makes," Warren said Monday at the door of his now-empty storage unit. "I thought I had done everything short of putting them in Fort Knox."

Now, about 50 guns are somewhere on the streets. A few are antique rifles from his grandfathers, and some are .45-caliber handguns in mint condition. It's a collection of about half rifles and half handguns, and Warren knows personally that nearly all of them are more than capable of firing accurately.

Hundreds of rounds of ammunition — some of which is no longer made because it has been outlawed because it can penetrate body armor — is also on the loose. As if that's not enough, various knives were also in the safe.


Kenneth Warren holds a picture similar to of one of his stolen guns on Monday afternoon. (Jennifer M. Howell/News-Sentinel)

The collection, which Warren had spent his life building as an investment for retirement, is valued at more than $70,000. He didn't have insurance because he'd spent thousands of dollars to protect the collection and thought it was secure.

The theft sickens Warren because he lost a lifetime of collecting, but he's even more concerned that his guns might wind up in the hands of criminals who could use them for harm.

Warren is still going through his records — each gun was obtained legally and was registered to him — and Lodi police are still logging each gun as "stolen" in a nationwide system that tracks firearms.

Police are still investigating and are hoping a hand print could help the case. But, there was no video surveillance, and so far they have not identified any suspects, said Officer Dale Eubanks, who tracked down and interviewed every person who entered a key-coded gate at the storage center.

Warren, who spent years in the Navy before going into construction, never married or had children, so he spent his spare money on his gun collection.

"As a single guy, I could either drink and gamble or I could buy stuff," he said.


Kenneth Warren points to a list of stolen ammunition on Monday afternoon. (Jennifer M. Howell/News-Sentinel)

It started with a few antiques passed down from Warren's grandfathers and a great-grandfather, including guns and some pocket watches.

Over the years, Warren added to the collection. Many of the guns were limited editions, with gold plating and fine detail. Some were pictured in gun collector magazines touting that only a handful had ever been made.

When Warren lived in the Grass Valley area 15 years ago, he kept the whole collection in a safe in his home. He'd show the collection to a few trusted buddies, always making sure to lock the safe.

Then he moved to Stockton and searched for the most secure storage unit.

Warren had to get a crane to move the safe, which weighed roughly 1,800 pounds when full.

For the past 10 years, Warren said, he has paid his storage rent on time each month in cash. He prefers to use cash because he never got into credit cards and computers.

Now he wonders if the cash payments drew unwanted attention, along with his gold bracelets, necklace, rings and large belt buckle. He's a wiry man with sideburns and a goatee, and he walks quickly in his polished black boots.

Neither he nor police doubt that Warren's storage unit was targeted. It's not easy to find and is only another numbered orange door.

And there's the fact that the heist was carried out in broad daylight: At 1:29 p.m. that New Year's Eve Monday, the thieves apparently had a bit of trouble getting out of the storage center's rolling locked gate.


Lodi Police Investigator Nick Rafiq, left, listens to Kenneth Warren as they talk Monday afternoon about the theft of Warren's gun collection. (Jennifer M. Howell/News-Sentinel)

The culprits tried in vain to use Warren's storage unit number as a code on the keypad. That attempt was recorded on U-Haul's computer system, and police think another car must have opened the gate and ultimately allowed the crooks to escape.

The thieves left burgundy scrape marks along the concrete floor leading from Warren's storage unit, and Eubanks said they apparently used dumbbells to move it to a freight elevator.

From there, it was just a few short feet out a rear door to a waiting vehicle. A coffee table and blanket were also missing, which Eubanks thinks may have been used to hide the safe from public view.

The theft devastated Warren, who said he feels like a car accident victim.

He discovered the loss the next day, when he went to do a detailed inventory and take photos for a gun enthusiast in Chicago. The man was interested in buying much of Warren's collection, and the base negotiation price had started at $70,000.

Warren, who probably knows more about guns than many officers, wants to see the collection recovered, even if it is damaged. He knows the monetary value of the weapons, but he also knows the damage they can do.

On the off chance that someone does return the guns, Warren vows to reward them.

"I don't have any cash to offer anybody, but if I get them back, I'll come up with something," he said.

Anyone with information on the weapons is asked to contact Lodi police at 333-6727. Anonymous callers, who may be eligible for a cash reward, may contact Lodi-Area Crime Stoppers at 333-6771.

Contact reporter Layla Bohm at [email protected].







hmmmm....:scrutiny::confused:
cash payments drew unwanted attention, along with his gold bracelets, necklace, rings and large belt buckle. He's a wiry man with sideburns and a goatee, and he walks quickly in his polished black boots.
I don't have any cash to offer anybody, but if I get them back, I'll come up with something
 
I don't think it has to be an inside job. All a thief has to do is hang out at one of these facilities, or send a flunky to hang out. Carrying a safe up to the second floor could not be carried out in a discrete manner. In Lodi, word probably spread across town within a few hours that some guy down at U-Haul just stored a treasure trove.
 
He discovered the loss the next day, when he went to do a detailed inventory and take photos for a gun enthusiast in Chicago. The man was interested in buying much of Warren's collection, and the base negotiation price had started at $70,000.
Just a wild guess, but if somebody in Chicago knew they were available, then I suspect local people did too.

As for value, it doesn't take anything really special to be worth over $1,000. Remington 700 with a Leupold scope and rings makes it. I consider that a pretty run of the mill item. Decent O/U shotgun is maybe $1,500+ now.
 
OK, I realize that a dedicated thief can break into anything. However, can somebody with experience here explain how the safe could have been made more secure?

I was thinking securing the safe to the storage facility infrastructure and then paying for any damage later. 1,800 pounds, that sounds like a lot to normal people, but this case proves that thieves pretty much have the weight issue covered.

Another thought is that a storage facility is a dumb place to store valuables. Someone above mentioned a bank vault.

By the way, $1,500 or so per gun is easy. I learned sporting clays here in Cali from a guy who casually let me use his custom Perazzi worth $25k. I didn't find out until later the value of the gun.
 
Lodi, CA??!!! Is Lodi even on the map?


Yeah, not far from me. I heard Johnny Cash was stuck there once.::rolleyes:
 
All a thief has to do is hang out at one of these facilities, or send a flunky to hang out. Carrying a safe up to the second floor could not be carried out in a discrete manner.

Whoever took it did so in a fairly discrete manner since nobody noticed it leaving.

OK, I realize that a dedicated thief can break into anything. However, can somebody with experience here explain how the safe could have been made more secure?

The proper safe (large enough for a decent size gun collection), and suitable for that dollar amount should have weighed in excess of 4,000 pounds empty. Although you can still "walk off" with a 4,000 pound safe, you'll usually draw a lot of attention to yourself. It won't simply lay into a truck or SUV, and won't easily roll on dumbells.

Once you get into valuables worth tens of thousands of dollars, you can count on spending approximately 10% of the value of the items on the safe itself. This applies to real safes, and not gun safes. There are very few gun safe manufacturers that build safes suitable for this kind of collection. AMSEC, Brown, and Graffunder come to mind. There's not a safe that Liberty, Browning, Fort Knox, Cannon, Champion, Sturdy, or any other similar company makes that is suitable for even half of what this guy had.

The other option available to this guy (and others) is to split the collection into multiple safes. We do work for a very serious collector in our area who has 15 gun safes housing his guns. Each safe has $10K or less in contents.

Had that guy split his collection into seven 800 pound safes, it would have been practically impossible due to weight and volume to remove them all.
 
"bullets, which officials say can be hazardous to your health"

$70,000 in guns is not that unbelievable, if the guy was a collector of expensive guns. A couple Purdey/Boss/H&H bespoke shotguns, an antique colt percussion revolver or two, some sharps rifles (perfectly good deer rifle, btw), would cover it.
 
My first thought was that someone had seen him moving the safe into the storage unit. After all, it's not easy lifting something weighing 1300 lbs up to the second story. Then I read the part about how he actually moved the safe in 10 years ago, and re-evaluated.

It pretty much had to be that someone found out about his collection, and targetted it specifically. We have rings from time to time that will rent a storage unit, then break into various other units - especially ones that they've seen other people load somewhat-valuable stuff into. It's a pity that those crooks actually had the time to move the safe like that without anybody noticing.
 
Oh my GOD! Is he serious? I thought bullets shot glitter and tickles!

LOL!!!:D

dont those Uhaul places have security cameras and cardboard Uhaul Security men in the windows to look like real security?!! and like the above poster said it really is sad no one saw a couple people dragging a 1300+ pound safe down at least 2 flights of stairs LOL
 
a group of men could break into the unit and move the safe to a waiting truck in less then 10 mins, at most 20. hell if they knew what they were doing and had the right equipment they could do it less then 5. I watched a 1 guy from a safe moving company move a safe that was ~3000 lbs 20 ft and into the back of a truck in less then 10 mins. It took him longer to strap the safe in the back of his truck then it did to put it in there.
 
People are saying that nobody noticed the thieves. How do you know nobody noticed? U-Haul storage is not somebody's home. People move stuff in and out regularly. People moving a safe would not be suspicious if the thieves were acting like calm owners. The thieves could have carried this out in broad daylight without anybody being suspicious. Actually, broad daylight would have been preferable, as long as the real owner didn’t show up.
 
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