(CA) Man challenges right to bear arms in public

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Drizzt

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(IL) Man challenges right to bear arms in public

Man challenges right to bear arms in public

By Cynthia Fugate

Flyer Staff Writer

DANVILLE -- When Will Hutchins walked into the Hendricks County Courthouse Feb. 4 with a Colt .45-calibur semiautomatic handgun tucked in his belt, he says he didn't get what he bargained for -- he got a lot less.

Hutchens, 53 of Plainfield, says he walked up to a Hendricks County Sheriff's Deputy in the courthouse, informed him that he had the weapon and demanded to be cited for breaking a county ordinance prohibiting deadly weapons on the premises.

His goal, he says, is to challenge any law that prohibits him from carrying a firearm wherever he pleases. He says the ordinance is the government's way of infringing on his right to bear arms.

"It's my constitutional right to carry a gun in the courthouse, a park, anywhere I want," Hutchins said.

After receiving a citation, Hutchens was told not to return to court with the gun, but that's exactly what he did for his March 24 hearing. Deputies seized the weapon.

Hendricks County Attorney Greg Steuerwald is representing the county in the case because Hutchens has, so far, only violated a county ordinance.

"There are limitations on the Second Amendment, certainly they are for the public safety," Steuerwald said. "It's analogous to the First Amendment that you can't run into a crowded theater and yell fire."

Hutchins appeared before Hendricks Superior Court III Judge Karen Love, who told him, "If you ever bring a weapon into this court again, loaded or not, I will find you in contempt."

Hutchins requested a jury trial and asked Love to remove herself from the case on the grounds that she was one of four judges who authored the judicial order that firearms are prohibited in the courthouse. Judges Jeffrey V. Boles, David H. Coleman and Robert Freeze also signed the order.

Though Love warned Hutchins not to return with his weapon, he says that's exactly what he will do.

"It's my right as an American to carry a gun and that's exactly what I'm going to do," he said. "All the way to the Indiana State Supreme Court, if I have to."

Steuerwald says this is the first instance that a Hendricks County resident has challenged the order.

"I believe citizens understand that reasonable limitations can be placed on the right to bear arms and carrying a loaded pistol into a courtroom is certainly one of those (limitations)," he said.

http://www.flyergroup.com/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=41391?hc_story

edited because I was working on a California project while doing this, and put the wrong state :eek:
 
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"I believe citizens understand that reasonable limitations can be placed on the right to bear arms and carrying a loaded pistol into a courtroom is certainly one of those (limitations)," he said.

No civil rights in court rooms, eh? I wonder where that's tucked away in the Constitution.
 
So you're saying he should have a right to carry a gun in a courtroom?
Hellooooo, McFly!:D

Not only should he have the right to pack in a court room, he DOES have that right. As members have in their signature, What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

Rights are not granted by the .gov. The .gov does not grant us the ability to seek the persuit of happiness, it is an inaliable right, for which we dont need permission.
 
Hey, you are my density.

Anybody who thinks that rights are absolute, all the time, for everyone raise your hand. Now go pass out Berettas to all the violent felons. Is that what you meant? Of course not.

He has a right to pack a gun walking around town. But the judges have decided the only people in their courtrooms with guns will be duly appointed peace officers, etc. What's wrong with that?
 
What's wrong with that?
It's illegal, that's what.
But the judges have decided the only people in their courtrooms with guns will be duly appointed peace officers, etc.
The problem here is that the courtroom belongs to the people, not the judge, and judges don't get to make the law. The constitution is the law, and it's pretty clear about the whole thing. Judges are not above the law, they are bound by the law. They are in no way empowered to make 'decisions' about where and when anyone can do anything, let alone carry a gun.
Anybody who thinks that rights are absolute, all the time, for everyone raise your hand. Now go pass out Berettas to all the violent felons. Is that what you meant? Of course not.
I believe that if you are out of prison, if you have 'paid your debt to society', then you should have the protection of the constitution. The problem with this currently is, there are plenty of people out of prison who shouldn't be. The problem is with the justice system, not the Bill of Rights. The solution is to fix the justice system, not to 're-interpret' the Bill of Rights to temporarily make everyone feel better. Which is all the restriction on ex-cons owning guns is, a feel good measure. If the ex-con is going to shoot someone, what does he care if the gun is legal?

The point is, there is no need for these restrictions. And the ones we have that seem 'reasonable' only seem reasonable because of some other problem creating the issue. Such as violent predators walking the streets who should be locked up. If someone is such a menace that you can't trust them to own or possess a gun, what are they doing out of prison?

- Gabe
 
I wish him luck.
Being in the right does not always keep you out of trouble.

Did I start something with my sig line? :D
 
It's illegal, that's what.
No. You think it ought to be illegal. There is a pretty important distinction there.

In an ideal world, rights are absolute all of the time. This is not an ideal world. Guns are not allowed in court, and frankly, seeing as how courtrooms are populated with criminals who are present for trial, but are free on bond, I really don't have a problem with the restriction.

Nomex ON.

Mike
 
Why does it have the (CA) in the title?
Since I live in Hendricks County I wish him the best of luck. I can't say that I agree with him completely, but...*shrugs sholders*
 
I believe that if you are out of prison, if you have 'paid your debt to society', then you should have the protection of the constitution.
Ah, no.

If you are out of prison, that means that our extremely liberal court let you out of prison; overcrowding, incompetent litigators, apathetic judges, ignorant juries, an overworked parole system (that has enough idiocy of its own) are a few reasons for the above.

If you are a law-abiding citizen, then more power to you. But when you start violating the rights of others, you may very well lose some of your own.

I can respect no firearms in a courthouse. Too many violent individuals are present to ensure that 'only cool heads prevail'. I would trust many people on The High Road with a firearm in a courthouse, but the problem is, not everyone on this planet has sense. And sense is not entirely quantifiable, nor is it a pre-requisite for membership in the human race.

See, we know what's up, but not all of them know...

Spooky, ain't it?
 
I would trust many people on The High Road with a firearm in a courthouse, but the problem is, not everyone on this planet has sense. And sense is not entirely quantifiable, nor is it a pre-requisite for membership in the human race.

See, we know what's up, but not all of them know...

Spooky, ain't it?

Above is from a post above.

I bust it down real simple.

If someone is in jail, they are paying their debt to society. If they are out, they are either inocent and arguing with a judge about their debt to society or they are inocent and not arguing with a judge and living their life.

Of course part of my problem comes from the hand picked juries that are not always told of the power they have.

I bust it down to the very basics.

And I feel a judge that thinks he needs to be above the basic rights of man is someone that should not be judgeing men.

Something about inocent till proven guilty seems to be my problem with judges wanting unarmed men coming to be told what their sentance will be.

but maybe that is me. And maybe that is how life will be.
 
Look at it this way. There are certain kinds of people in a courthouse.

Cops - ok, they already have guns

Lawyers - ewww...

Criminals - ok, no.

Jurors - unlucky and/or not smart enough to get out of jury duty. :neener:
 
I give the guy credit for standing up for what he perceives as right. I have waaay more respect for him than for the people who just blabber on and on about how gov't is infringing their rights blah blah blah and who do nothing to test the waters..

That being said, under any circumstances, he loses....not all rights are absolute..

Wildthefirstamdoesntletyousayf***youtoajudgeincourtdoesit?Alaska
 
That man is a TRUE AMERICAN HERO!!! We should all aspire to be as great as he. If we had a pair, maybe we could do the same and get our freedom back!
 
It's very dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
That's why people don't stand up for their rights.
Because they can be crushed by the obscene power of the government over it's citizens. (Sound like Iraq?)

What are judges worried about? They have bullet proof desks! What do you think they wear under those robes? Ballistic vests! They have armed guards besides access to their own weapons.

They are in very little danger. So what can the real reason be? Sure looks like judicail power is going to their heads. Obey the king! :uhoh: I guess in this case it is obey all the kings.

I like 2nd ammendment.
 
Sigh.

Yes of course he's right, technically.

The problem here is that he really doesn't know how to fight back effectively. They're just gonna eat him alive :(.
 
Yeah I have Nightcrawler. Since you ask...

Charge: ILLEGAL TRANSPORTATION OF A FIREARM.

They refused me a jury.

The judge told my lawyer BEFORE the trial to plead guilty or he would sentence me to the maximum 5 years in prison.

Then the Judge slept through the whole trial.

I testified to get my side of the whole freaking kangaroo trial on the record. I told the lawyer to appeal but he never filed the papers.

Have you stood up for your rights? Fact is you don't have any rights. But you won't know or believe that until you go through the nightmare of our "justice" system.

Your turn, lets hear about your great experiment in civil disobediance for the 2nd amendment. Sounds like it turned out a whole lot different than mine.
 
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I'll be blunt. That sounds quite doubtful. Refused you a jury trial, for a case in which you could be imprisoned? :scrutiny: A lawyer who just "never filed the paperwork?" :scrutiny: No followup appeals? Nothing? Where is El Tejon when you need him? El T? What say you?

Either you truly are on the other side of the iron curtain, or these facts are colored.

Mike
 
No. You think it ought to be illegal. There is a pretty important distinction there.
It's actually the opposite of what you said. Because you, and many many others - incl. the judges, think it should be illegal for law abiding citizens to carry firearms in courtrooms, it is currently "illegal" and is enforced as such. This is in contradiction to the real law, the Constitution, which says very plainly that judges and legislators have no power to restrict when or where the citizens of the United States can carry their firearms.

The Constitution is clear on this issue. Unconstitutional laws are null and void from day one. Laws restricting people from carrying firearms are illegal. Just because the status quo doesn't respect that, doesn't mean it isn't so.

So, you're right. It's a pretty clear distinction. Just not the way you layed it out.

Ah, no.

If you are out of prison, that means that our extremely liberal court let you out of prison; overcrowding, incompetent litigators, apathetic judges, ignorant juries, an overworked parole system (that has enough idiocy of its own) are a few reasons for the above.
Your text here lays out pretty well some of the problems in the justice system we have currently and why there are people on the street who we feel uncomfortable restoring their rights to. So, what's the solution to this problem? Rewriting the 2nd to mean something it doesn't? Or fixing the problems you cited above?

The point is, there are real-world problems with implementing a true-to-intent 2nd Amendment. The shame is that instead of trying to preserve the rights, we seek to take the easy way out and restrict the right to accomodate our failures in other areas.

- Gabe
 
Wow.

This guy has you-know-whats the size of CHURCH BELLS.

And they are SOLID BRASS.

Wow.

What a real, American Man.

I wish more of us would do that.

I'd buy him a few beers if I met him...
 
Yah, what a great idea, let Mr and Mrs Mook carry guns to their divorce proceeding so they can shoot people when one of them doesn't get the boat or the summer house. :rolleyes:

While we are at it, let's let Robert Blake carry a gun to court for his murder trial. He made bail, so why shouldn't he be allowed to? :rolleyes:

We have people try to go after the judge for losing a traffic ticket, they should have a gun in court also. :rolleyes:

Never let logic or reality cloud your judgement. Just mindlessly recite the 2A. :D
 
Hi Coronach,

Thanks for the kind doubts. Didn't seem too blunt to me. :) I can give more info in regards to your suspicions. No rant, just facts. Perhaps some among us can benefit from it.

Certain juristictions develop into "good old boy" gangs after years of working together and they work together to get unjust convictions of honest people. It's called railroading and any one of us as a single person has no chance of winning a case in that kind of environment. :banghead:

Being not a lawyer and young I had little choice but to believe what I was told by my lawyer. I know the whole bunch got together for lunch after the case and had a good laugh at my expense (my brother-in-law was a deputy). I believe this is the reason my lawyer failed to file the papers. Papers which I was informed had a deadline and that I entrusted him to meet. For all I know that deadline for filing was just another lie. I found out about it shortly after the claimed deadline by asking wasn't there something I needed to sign for the appeal. I talked to him once after the trial, before the deadline, about some payment stuff and he never let on that I was going to be ignored. I became extremely depressed upon hearing of this and knowing what I had already been through I just flat out gave up on receiving any justice at the hands of such a worthless system. :mad:

I was told by my lawyer that jury trials are based on the severity of the crime and since there was no "crime" in my case a jury was not an option. I did have a trial and I did have NO JURY. Can you get a jury for every trial? Heck if I know! I am not a liar for telling you about a lie if that is the case. You do cause me to wonder the way you state it. If you doubt the judge threatened me before the trial I don't know what to tell you. There is no way to prove that. Believe it or don't. I can offer explanations or theories but defending my honesty is a really strange concept. :confused:

I'll not bother to list the numerous lies told by police officers who testified some of which were not even involved in the arrest. Lies against which I forced my lawyer to speak up and defend me. He did prove me innocent of those lies with cross examination. They gave verbal testimony that was even at odds with the written arrest report. It was like two different cases and very easily accomplished. Never a perjury charge filed. It is trully sickening to be dragged through such a thing. I think I would have preferred physical torture. Did I mention that the cops wrote a confession for me to sign? Now there's some Iron Curtain material for you! :barf:

The only true thing in the whole arrest report was where I was quoted as saying "That law sucks". This law no longer exists in this state and since I have out-survived everyone involved I care not to keep picking the scab any longer, it is a painful memory. I have a perfectly clean record these days and I've fought my windmill. :cool:

Maybe if we all took one little bite at this assault on our 2nd amendment rights such as Mr. Hutchins things would get better for us? Though indirectly, I like to think I did my small part since the law I challenged was eventually changed. Somebody elses turn now to jump on the horse now. :D

Still waiting to hear from Nightcrawler. I am beginning to think he might be one of the king's guards to have insulted me in such an obtuse manner. Here's one back for you worm guy :rolleyes:.

I stand by my belief that judges have nothing to worry about (at least from me) if they make rulings based on law, it is straying from the rule of law that they have cause to fear. Spoken from experience.

If somebody wants to kill somebody else they can still do it outside of court. What good are bans only in court then? This can only be resolved by bans everywhere.
 
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