Calif. Lawmakers Propose Voting Age of 14 (merged threads)

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What if his new job pays so little he can't pay taxes(in the Capitalist Paradise, there's no minimal wages)?
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In my capitalist paradise? Nice assumption. I support the minimum wage. I also support alternative tax plans. I like the flat tax, but national sales tax has captured my interest as of late. That's another debate though.

What if he's reduced to begging (in your BNW, there's no welfare)?
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Life is hard. I don't live under any illusions about that. Apparently you do. If I were reduced to begging, I'd find one of the evil rich people and beg for a job. I'd rather pick peaches in the hot Georgia sun than sit on an Atlanta street corner begging for money. I was out of my career field for a few months this past summer. The reason I was only out of my career field and not unemployed was because I got off my ass and took a job washing dishes and cleaning toilets for minimum wage. I took a $62,000 pay cut because I have the right kind of pride. I'm not too proud to take a demeaning job, but I am way too proud to be a bum living off the backs of others. Fortunately for me, that only lasted 3 months. But I did it, and didn't collect one red nickel from the government. That's what hard working Americans do! If he's reduced to begging and chooses otherwise, then so be it. At least those who give him money, directly or indirectly, will not be doing so because they are forced to. Most likely, I'll be one of those giving him money indirectly, through charitable contributions. I'd love to be able to give him a job, but my high tax rate would likely prevent that. See how it works?
 
Stupid kids would be all about the liberal save this, fund that, peace this, help that.

BUT THEY DO NOT PAY TAXES!
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I don't know about you, but I sure as hell paid taxes when I was underage--both sales and income. There were and are a bunch of others in the same boat.

It's just patently untrue and fallacious to use that argument.
 
That's Ludacris to you, homey ;)

Jeez, at least learn to spell the candidates' names.

ludacris.jpg
 
We need fewer voters...

not more. There are too many franchised now. I like Boortz's idea: The more taxes you pay, the more votes you get.
 
Why not?

I bet 14-, and 16-year old kids are smarter and more honest than the folks in Sacramanto.

We should start them young before their commonsenses disappear.

-Pat
 
I can't wait until people's pets can vote, all those Republican politicians can just pack up and go get a real job.
 
Treylis: Don't forget the VAT.
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What VAT? We don't have any such thing in the US. One could argue that corporate taxes, which are passed on as lower wages and higher prices, constitute a VAT.
 
Yeah, I figure they can start now if you get off your a** and sign up more dead illegal aliens from out of state to vote, instead of leaving all the work to the rest of your Dem buddies.
 
I heard Vasconcellos on Michael Medved's show today. This guy is not only dense he's arrogant. My take on him is that he's an old die-hard leftist with one poison arrow left in his quiver (he's leaving the legislature soon).

From my perspective this proposal, which I doubt will go anywhere, is symptomatic of the mindset of the radical bloc of the California legislature. Two goals here: promote socialism by any means possible and maximize Latino control of this State.
 
This guy's only doing it so his kids will think he's wicked cool! :cool: :neener:

The pianist who loses two fingers and cannot work does NOT go on Welfare. He goes on Disability. Some of the benefits associated with Welfare may be included, but there is a big difference between Cannot work, and Will Not work. Do you really want to tell someone with MD, or who was crippled fighting for their country, that they do not have the same rights as other citizens?

Most of the disabled want to work, but are not allowed under current laws. Many end up as volunteers. I, too, do not think that Welfare recipients should be allowed to vote. If I'm getting free housing, food, and medical care for doing nothing, how do you think I'm going to vote?
 
I had this idea once that there could be a government with a written set of responsibilities, and that people electing representatives would be merely selecting implementors, not choosing people on the basis of them promising to ignore that written mandate and engage in other, nefarious practices.

Cool idea or what?
 
I heard Vasconcellos on Michael Medved's show today.
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He's been making the news since his little voting brainstorm. Apparently he also, on the State Senate floor and for the record, stated that we stole the Southwest from Mexico and have to give it back. One wonders if he's aware that he was elected (I don't know how) to a State body in the United States, not in Mexico.
 
If voting age goes down to 14...

1. Will drinking
2. smoking
3. porn
4. and long guns come down to 14?
5. How about NC-14 films?
6. Driving? Learner's permits at 12.5?
7. The draft?
 
We've been there. It's called Jim Crow laws.
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I didn't know that Israel ever had Jim Crow laws. ;)

There is a kernel of truth in what you say. Poll taxes were abused under Jim Crow. However, their abuse doesn't make them inherently bad. A lot of things were abused during Jim Crow, but we still use them in their proper, unabused forms.

However, Fix is proposing something different from poll taxes. Poll taxes you paid specifically for access to the voting booth, kind of like a toll to drive on a road. He's saying that people must pay taxes in general if they want to vote. It is a variation on Heinlein's citizenship through military service. It has appeal, but it also has problems, not least of which is that Fix is trying to "fix the vote" -- in a manner that I'd like, but he's trying to put in "the fix" nonetheless.

But in Fix's favor, voting in elections is a civil right not an inalienable right. On the one hand, non tax payers still are citizens, so they have the civil right of voting. On the other hand, because voting is not an inalienable right, we regularly forbid it for certain people whose situations make them improper voters for one reason or the other (non-citizens, children, felons, insane). Do those who fail to pay taxes fall into this category as Fix proposes? Should citizenship (and the accompanying civil rights like voting) require monetary support of the government? Good questions.

In any event, I'm not sure that Fix's fix would work. Receipt of welfare does not mean the person fails to pay income tax -- thus those who vote themselves access to the government coffers still could vote. As well, plenty of regular tax payers still would wrap themselves in the warm fuzzy of "helping the poor" so that they could ignore that they are committing the moral wrong of taking wealth by force. Further, rich tax payers are just as likely as non tax payers to vote themselves access to the coffers (see corporate welfare).

It would be better (but harder) to change the memes -- to make people realize that doing one moral good does not justify doing another moral bad.
 
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