California AB2218: poll to decide on one of two letters of support

Which approach on AB2218 is more likely to work?

  • I like letter one more or less as is (or with minor tweaks)

    Votes: 3 18.8%
  • I like letter two more or less as is (or with minor tweaks)

    Votes: 13 81.3%
  • I think a different approach will work better (suggestions?)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    16
Status
Not open for further replies.

Jim March

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
8,732
Location
SF Bay Area
I'll be supporting AB2218 on 4/20. I'm not going to debate this bill with y'all here, as it's been thrashed out sufficiently well in this thread and if more is needed we can do it there:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=75668

I've got two different support letters written and I'm not sure which one to go with. I'll also be asking the advice of Joe Waldron, Dave Workman and Alan Gottlieb of course, but I'd like to see what y'all think:

Letter 1:

-----------------
AB2218 (La Suer): Statement of Support

Prepared by:
Citizen’s Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms – 4/8/04
Jim March – California Field Rep, 916-370-0347 / [email protected]

“A lie can travel halfway round the world while the truth is putting its boots on.â€
- unknown, possibly Mark Twain

Assemblyman La Suer is to be commended for giving the legislature a critical opportunity to put a halt to a lie.

The lie is that firearms patterned loosely after military-grade weapons but configured as semi-automatic (one shot per trigger pull) and having a standard 10-round magazine are any more “dangerous†or “evil†than traditionally-styled weapons.

Beginning around 1988, the radical victim disarmament lobby realized they could take guns that “look evil†and demonize them via an all-too-willing media. Pistol grip stocks were described as “hip firing tools†when they’re no such thing – hip firing is completely useless unless you’ve got full auto and even then it’s a bad idea.

To a victim disarmament activist, ANY gun ban is a good gun ban, even powered by a lie. The truth takes a while to get rolling but once it starts, it’s unstoppable.

California’s voting public is exhibiting a new degree of scrutiny of state functions. $30billion in the hole does tend to have that effect. Old lies are coming unglued.

AB2218 recognizes that reality and treats all semi-auto firearms (and their owners) the same SO LONG as they’re strictly limited to 10rd capacity magazines and follow the near-total prohibition on fully automatic weapons in play nationally since 1934.

Illogical legislation based on a gun’s “looks†has convinced many gun owners that California’s weapons laws will never have any connection to reality or sanity. Persecuted and angry, they’ve left the state in droves. The difference is actually noticeable at local NRA Member’s Council chapter meetings and the like…and while we’re sure that radical elements of the legislature are glad to hear it, their fanaticism against self defense and self reliance doesn’t take into account the average incomes of the people literally driven from the tax rolls.

California can’t afford fanaticism. The legislature can’t afford to continue lying via the penal codes to appease a radical victim-disarmament minority.

It’s time to end the war on harmless law-abiding gun owners, and focus on actual criminal threats to public safety. Thank you all for your willingness to consider it.

Page 2 is attached and shows examples of the firearms banned and legal.
-----------------

Letter 2:

-----------------
AB2218 (La Suer): Statement of Support

Prepared by:
Citizen’s Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms – 4/8/04
Jim March – California Field Rep, 916-370-0347 / [email protected]

To understand our support for this bill, the committee should imagine a situation some years from now when the legislature decides to ban the sale and regulate the ownership of cars that eat too much gas. We aren’t proposing any such thing, and our Governor and his Hummers would have something to say about it regardless, but we want to show you what has been happening in gun law by way of comparison.

Imagine that the “gas hog bill†wasn’t based on objective standards such as miles per gallon or emissions. Imagine that instead, it focused on “evil automotive performance features†such as wide rims, hood scoops, rear spoilers, pinstripes and the like. A car with performance rims couldn’t also have retractable headlights.

Automotive enthusiasts all over the state would look at each other in panic, and collectively decide that the legislature has gone bonkers on anything related to cars. The only sane reaction would be to flee the state, turbos screaming at full boost.

This has been the law abiding gun owner reaction when the legislature swallowed the deceptions of the victim disarmament lobby on the subject of “assault weaponsâ€.

Semi-auto guns of a given caliber, normal size range and limited to 10 round magazines are not “military assault weapons†no matter what they look like. “Pistol grips†do not allow anything as silly as firing from the hip. “Flash hiders/suppressors/etc.†serve a purpose in making the gun slightly more “sport utility looking†but their main effect is to prevent dings to the end of the barrel when you’re chasing deer. Plastic stocks survive when dropped in a swamp chasing pigs.

We are aware of hundreds of our organization’s members who have literally fled the state because they lack trust in the legislature to treat them fairly in any area of law concerning legal self defense or firearms. We’ve been tracking the reductions in attendance at California NRA Member’s Council meetings. It isn’t that they’re leaving the movement, we hear from them all the time. Their new Email addresses are with ISPs in NV, ID, NH and the like. When they post on Internet firearms forums, they often put labels to the end of their messages such as “California escapeeâ€.

While this trend might warm the hearts of that small section of the legislature devoted strongly to victim disarmament, the majority in both parties with sane views on self defense must realize the financial toll on the state. These are high-income taxpayers being driven off to support a radical victim disarmament agenda.

Our organization asks that California’s weapons control laws be based on objective performance standards versus cosmetics, and asks for your support for AB2218.

Page 2 is attached and shows examples of the firearms banned and legal.
-----------------

Note that both will have the same "second page" of a technical nature which can be seen here:

http://www.equalccw.com/AB2218.pdf

Suggestions on the second page, or either letter above welcome.

The first page in the PDF is "letter one" but minus some subtle improvements present in the version above.
 
Hrm. If I apprehend your letters correctly, here is a summary:

Letter #1: the motivation behind the AW ban is a lie, and it is time the legislature redefine the law in accord with the facts.

Letter #2: The legislature's behavior is driving gun owners (i.e. taxpayers) out of the state, and the persecution needs to stop.

In case of #2, one has to wonder (as you openly mused) whether the legislature really cares that is creating refugees out of gun owners, but I submit that you know the CA legislature better than me. I kinda prefer #1 since it addresses the core of the problem -- the law is arbitrary and irrational. But there's a lot of repetition (namely the 3 paragraphs starting with "Beginning in 1988" do not add anything to the previous point), and it is more aggressive in tone since you're telling the legislature they made a big mistake with the original law. Still undecided right now. Thanks for your help on this, Jim.
 
Ya. I mostly favor #2...mostly. I'll run it past the pros at CCRKBA HQ before doing more. Gotta sleep now, tomorrow will be completely nuts.

Understand: the odds of this bill passing is going to be low. But not impossible.
 
The first letter is too adversarial and may tend to the "patriot movement types" in the mind of those reading it.

The second letter is more thoughtful, incites the comparison of like objects, and pursues the debate on a more intellectiual level. It also compares objects that have a history of being demonized to those being demonized currently; while discussing what incremental attack that object may be subjected to in the future.

The only thing that may grate on those reading it is the "victim disarmament" comment.
 
In my opinion, #1 focuses more on challenging the logic of the CA assault weapons law, and that will in and of itself fail as seen by previous court challenges to SB23.

#2 draws on an analogy that makes it easier for the anti crowd to understand. It somewhat acknowledges the current law is a reasonable restriction on firepower necessary for public safety, but seeks to change the definition of "assault characteristics" from cosmetics to function -- i.e. magazine capacity. I think this will be more effective in that it doesn't challenge the original spirit of SB23, but rather clarifies the law making it easier to enforce and comply with.

And as mentioned, it matters little that a certain fraction of the population is leaving the state. And in all practicality, it's tough to say that high income earners left the state simply because of gun laws. At least it'll be diffcult for the politicians to understand.

But still, thanks for the effort you're putting into this.
 
Depends entirely on the audience.

I perfer the tone of #2. However, there's a part of me that expects to hear "OK, and now we're going to hear a bill on Sensible Vehicle Asthetics Control."

The SUV analogy may just produce an "Oh good, we wanted to ban those too."

More focus on the level of taxpayers lost might put you over the edge though. In the end it's all about money and power.


"In the year 2000 alone, sources say approximately 50,000 gun owners fled the state, costing the state aproximately $500million EVERY YEAR since.
 
"In the year 2000 alone, sources say approximately 50,000 gun owners fled the state, costing the state aproximately $500million EVERY YEAR since."

Did they leave because of gun legislation or did they leave because of jobs/cost of living, and these folks just happened to own guns? Plus, there are such people as gun owners who move INTO California for a good paycheck.

The population in CA overall hasn't dwindled, so maybe the net monetary loss is being over dramatized a little? Bottom line is, in my opinion, is that to draw a link between tax revenue lost due to gun legislation is somewhat fragile.
 
In #1, I would skip the "and follow the near-total prohibition on fully automatic weapons in play nationally since 1934" and simply say something like "and are not automatic or switchable to fully automatic mode". I would make no direct concession to the 1934 act, a federal action. By the time your bill passes, if it does, there may be no direct federal precedent still in effect for what CA is doing. If an emasculated Tommy Gun, still being manufactured, is not on the CA list of approved guns, you're already dead meat. If it isn't on that list, then I would draw some parallels to why that is the case.

Personally I wouldn't really mind a total screw up and would welcome a case with some real prospect of rising to the US Supreme Court. CA is probably where that would be most likely to originate.
 
IMO, there are certain elements of letter #1 that ought to be imported into letter #2, especially the fact that the AWB is based on lies and part of a darker agenda.
 
Well DANG.

Just heard that 2218 is being altered as we speak. DOJ is ready to support ditching the old Roberti-Roos "named AW list" and going strictly with the "evil features" lists of SB23.

Everybody hang tight while I see what's up.
 
"Just heard that 2218 is being altered as we speak. DOJ is ready to support ditching the old Roberti-Roos "named AW list" and going strictly with the "evil features" lists of SB23."

This means AR receivers will once again become legal... as long as you take off the pistol grip. Still a minor victory. People can all just buy those "quick detach" grips. Hahahaha!!!!
 
Well let's see what the new language is. Just finished my phone calls, heading over there now.

It's still in La Suer's control though, that's a good thing.
 
Well DANG.

Just heard that 2218 is being altered as we speak. DOJ is ready to support ditching the old Roberti-Roos "named AW list" and going strictly with the "evil features" lists of SB23.

Everybody hang tight while I see what's up.

The SB23 lists were hardly enforcable as is (especially the 'AR series' compoment.)


OOoO! Let's COMBINE AB2218's 10 round exemption, WITH the 'features only" proposition!

Ie, features only matter on guns used with 10 round mags or less!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top