California laws and trading firearms???

[wgungho]

I have a pistol I want to trade for another. The other fellow lives in California, and I live in Virginia. My end is simple-I take the pistol to my FFL and he sends it to an FFL in California. Apparently, the other fellow has a few more hoops to jump through. Can anyone tell me exactly what he has to do to complete the trade?
Thanks
Tom

 

[accordingtoome]

when he has to pick it up from his FFL he has to pay about $35 to $40 bucks DROS fee. then he has to leave it there for 10 days and then pick it up. SUCKS balls. I recently jumped ship from cali myself.

 

[billwiese]

wgungho wrote:
Apparently, the other fellow has a few more hoops to jump through.
Can anyone tell me exactly what he has to do to complete the trade?

Several issues present themselves here. Perhaps your CA friend is not aware of these issues.

I'd also appreciate other folks from chiming in with California bashing so that this thread has relevant details and doesn't go off-topic.

• The handgun he is getting/you are sending to his FFL likely needs to be on the 'Roster of Handguns Approved for Sale in California' - unless it is an exempt single-action revolver or single shot pistol, or unless he's an LEO. (I will also assume you two are not related lineally, either.)
  
  If it is not Rostered and not exempt, the handgun cannot be transferred to him by his CA FFL - so you both should make sure it is otherwise the deal will go sideways (i.e., he ends up with a gun that he can 'own' but not possess).
  
  You can access the CA Roster here: http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/
  
  If you have questions about whether your gun you're trading to him is truly Rostered, I'd be glad to help figure it out.
  Do note that even if the gun's make/model/version is Rostered, it needs to be unmodified (no changes to caliber, aftermarkt barrel, etc. Grips/sights should fly OK.)
  
  
• Since this transfer is not considered a "PPT" (private party transfer) in CA, there's no restriction on FFL fees charged. There will be a basic $30ish DROS fee but the FFL can charge whatever he wants. [By contrast, CA to CA private party deals are capped at $35.]
  
  
• Do not ship the gun with any hicap magazines. (Some CA FFLs do have hicap mag permits, though.) The gun
  can't be delivered to nonLEO CA custoemr with hicap mags, and gun likely needs an OEM 10rd mag to still be considered Rostered.
  
  
• Generally, guns do not have to go thru 2 FFLs to get to someone; the seller can ship the gun directly to the recipient's FFL (providing that accepts shipments from individuals; some FFLs don't as policy though it has nothing to do with the law).
  
  For CA, this avoids the VA FFL from having to fill out the CA CFLC (Calif Firearms License Check) website - although it's trivially simple (5 mins first time, and about ~2 min for subsequent transactions) it's irritating to some. Again, this only applies to FFL dealers shipping to CA FFLs, and not individuals shipping straight to CA FFLs.
  
  
• So far so good - assuming the handgun is Rostered and thus transferrable, we can continue. Unless the CA buyer is exempt (LEO or maybe some prior service military exemption etc) he has to possess a valid Handgun Safety Certificate... this is valid for 5 years from issuance and can be gotten at any CA gunshop for $25: it just requires taking a simple multiple choice test about some basics of CA Gun law and how-not-to-shoot-one's-foot-off.)
  
  Your buyer then fills out Fed 4473 & CA DROS forms at his FFL and waits the 10 days. The gun should be delivered with a lock, or the buyer needs to show a receipt for a lock purchase within recent past (30 days? can't remember. This is Fed law, not CA law by the way.) There's another similar CA lock law that can be bypassed if one owns a gunsafe and an affadavit is completed.
  
  The buyer has to demonstrate he knows how to safely operate the handgun before it's released to him, so a loading/unloading/clearing demo with dummy rounds is shown by the dealer to him and then the buyer has to repeat it without error.
  
  The buyer also needs to bring (aside from his CA Drivers license/CA ID card at time of 4473/DROS) some kind of indication he lives where his DL says he does: this can be accomplished thru a recent *utility* bill (phone, water or power bill, cable TV, - not Visa or car loan, etc.) with his name/address on it, or a DMV car registration (I think has to have been reissued within 90 days for car reg to be useful). Recent lease agreement might also be helpful.
  
  It sounds more complicated than it is and plenty of guns are sold in CA.
  

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

 

[TAB]

if the gun is on the approved list, DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT send any mags that are over 10 rounds.

 

[billwiese]

TAB wrote:
if the gun is on the approved list, DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT
send any mags that are over 10 rounds.

Good point. Will edit my post above, forgot to include - revolvers were on my mind today.

 

[Librarian]

The gun should be delivered with a lock, or the buyer needs to show a receipt for a lock purchase within recent past (30 days? can't remember. This is Fed law, not CA law by the way.) There's another similar CA lock law that can be bypassed if one owns a gunsafe and an affadavit is completed.

Feds actually just want the lock present on delivery; it's California that wants proof of purchase within the 30 days prior to delivery.

See http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=1495010#post1495010

We're still waiting for BATFE to provide a BATFE-acceptable form for gun safes.