Call 911 or Call Lawyer?

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I'm evacuating the scene because I'm in fear for my life.

I'm going to a safe location, and I'm contacting my lawyer.

Then SHUT UP when the police come
It is always best to be the first to call the police. Do it immediately. If you cannot all from the scene, realize that flight is an indication of guilt. You will have plenty of time to call your attorney--but you might well be in custody.
Because eventually they probably will.

Well, unless you shot some street thug. In which case you may never hear from the police if you are able to SHUT UP.
Well, if someone has been shot, law enforcement will certainly be looking for the suspect.
 
I think it is imperative that a person who has been involved in a self defense shooting call 911 rather tha wait t for another person to do so. That act shows due diligence in meeting one’s responsibility. If you wan to call your lawyer first, than ask yourself this: What if I cannot reach him or get put on hold? Call your lawyer second. On the 911 call be sure to ask for police and EMT response. Unlike war, if you shoot someone, you have a duty to try and save their life, and a lawyer cannot do that. And do you really wan to have to answer the question: Why dodn’t you call 911?
 
I'm evacuating the scene because I'm in fear for my life.
Sure, that's an excellent idea if you actually are in fear for your life and the circumstances show it. But evacuating the scene doesn't preclude one from calling 911 and you don't want to put yourself behind the curve by both leaving the scene AND not notifying/summoning the authorities as quickly as is reasonably possible.
 
Unlike war, if you shoot someone, you have a duty to try and save their life,
Point of order. If the enemy is no longer a threat and you can render aid without endangering yourself to do have a duty to "try to save their life".
 
Any consensus on better plans ? (Not so much the "best," as much as
ones that people have actually had (or know of ) experience with. . .
You just opened a #10 can of worms.

Do your own research, of course, but USCCA has gotten a lot of bad publicity recently for denying aid to clients because they didn't like the odds in court. Some have theorized that their actions actually contributed to their, now former, client's conviction. In general, insurance policies cannot cover illegal activities, so once you're charged, they walk.

Additionally, some plans will have a team of experts review your case, if they determine your case to not be a winnable self defense case, i.e. your actions didn't meet their required elements, they will deny service. Others will deny service if you carried your firearm into a gun free zone. (i.e virtually any public place of business in America today)

Lastly, most plans will not cover volunteer church security team members.

Do your own research and ask lots of questions before you rely on one.
 
I'm not sure I trust a bystander to call 911.
I should have clarified: have someone who is there with you call 911, preferably significant other or tight friend who you have already told what and how to say. This one is not like first aid class that says if you are busy giving first aid, address a specific person (You! In the red shirt!) in the crowd and have them call 911.
 
Unlike war, if you shoot someone, you have a duty to try and save their life,
No, actually you have no legal or general moral duty to do so, at all. You may, however, have decided that you, personally, have a moral or ethical duty to do so. That is totally a personal decision. It is, however, a good idea to have thought this through in advance, made your decision, and how you plan to act accordingly.

Some years ago my plan was to administer first aid to help them. However, in the past few years I have thought it out, and no way will I try to save someone who moments before tried to kill me. I also have seen several videos of real-life situations where the miscreant, apparently out of the fight, revived and tried again to attack the defender who after shooting them was trying to help them.

I will summon 911 Emergency Services for them.

In addition, I am not about to touch that category of malicious stranger who is bleeding out with blood that could very well include the AIDS virus or Hep C. I have administered first aid to both strangers and friends over the years (simple fracture of an arm, compound fracture of an arm at the elbow, epileptic seizure of a stranger on the sidewalk as I drove by, simple shock of a young driver after a late night fender bender, teenager who stepped on a nail with bare feet), and consider the ability and willingness to do so a social responsibility, but I must draw some lines on my actions.
 
your own research, of course
And you have (in your post) outlined many of the circumstances that gave me pause as I looked through the various companies/options.

One...In essence that the lawyers don't work for you. Instead they work for the company and its interest.
And two, an overzealous commonwealth/attorney general can w/ the stroke of a political pen cast you into a financial pit/sever you from your insurance.
 
I should have clarified: have someone who is there with you call 911, preferably significant other or tight friend who you have already told what and how to say. This one is not like first aid class that says if you are busy giving first aid, address a specific person (You! In the red shirt!) in the crowd and have them call 911.
I've never had to shoot anybody. I have had quite a few run-ins with crackheads and it's very rare that there's anybody else around.

I had one incident that occurred right before I quit. I had two runs the same guy in the same night. I was on my way to work and he was walking across the street in front of me. As I slowed down to let him pass. He started swinging what I later found out was a trailer hitch at my car.

I got away from the guy. I called 911 and reported the incident and continued on my way to work.

I got to work. I went through shift change and I started my rounds.

When I got to my third stop, guess who's sitting on the steps outside the laundromat.

So, the owner of the laundromat had rented it out to the owner of another laundromat who was having their machines replaced. So they brought all their laundry to this place to wash it at midnight.

So when I get there they told me that the guy on the steps who I've already had to run in with that night has been bothering them and can I please get him off property.

I called 911 back immediately. They eventually showed up and refused to prosecute. But the point I'm trying to make was that was the only time that there were any Witnesses to an encounter of mine
 
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The cops aren't your friends. Call an attorney and pay him to be your freind. Look what happened to Forward Assist Rittenhouse and it was all on live TV.
 
Just a reminder here that we should always watch what we say online. My understanding is that prosecutors will scour the web for your social media messages and try to use your comments against you.
 
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Just a reminder here that we should always watch what we say online. My understanding is that prosecutors will scour the web for your social media messages and try to use your comments against you.
It seems we’re getting OT, but I’ve had that happen in exactly one case. OTOH, I’ve had it come up a few times in jury selection. So much so in the last few years that in certain cases I now file a motion, pre-trial, to ask the judge to order the state to turn over what they have discovered in scrubbing the prospective jurors through their databases - information that is not readily available to the defense.
 
I have a firearms attorney on retainer. My first call after an incident will be to 911, then to my wife who has the attorney on speed dial.
 
Just a reminder here that we should always watch what we say online. My understanding is that prosecutors will scour the web for your social media messages and try to use your comments against you.

It amazes me how many people don't understand SHUT UP.

Exactamundo...

Besides, if you get involved in a self defense shooting, chances are you're gonna be way too wound up to even think straight afterwards.
Lawyer?
911?
Buddy with a backhoe? (sarcasm... for when they search)
You ain't gonna want to trust your mouth not to dig you a legal hole... if you can't even figure out who to call first.
 
Every time I called 911 it was on a company phone.

As soon as 911 hung up with me there was a message on the phone that said that the phone was locked and would remain so until EMS released it.

If I remember right I couldn't even leave that screen.

The first time it happened I decided I was NEVER going to call 911 on my phone unless it was literally Life and Death
I've never had to call 911... but that's some scary-ass 1984 stuff right there...
 
Personally, first call to 911 should go something like:

"911, I have someone trying to break in to the house ... could you send police over to xxx street? ... I am armed and will stay on the phone until police arrives ... Now intruder is in the house ... He's got a knife and headed towards me ... Stop! Stop! ... < Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang ... Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang.....
That is off topic. The question in the OP pertained ro a call after the shooting.

Fpr that reason and because of the unacceptable flippant tone. the post has been deleted.

The post by steambc should be taken seriously. Should any person ever be involved in any kind of use of force incident after which the evidence may seem ambiguous, his having posted such comments could prove damaging.
 
That is off topic. The question in the OP pertained ro a call after the shooting.
Indeed. I think, at this point, we are all pretty much universally agreed that the first call should be 911. This was always my belief, as well. I started the discussion because I was intrigued by the notion that your lawyer's words cannot be used against you, so better for him to make the call. The general consensus here is that this is typical internet bunk. At this point, we might consider that this topic has run its course.
 
All I could add is that the perception is that:

1) Innocent victims call 911 immediately to report the crime to the police.

2) Innocent victims want to tell the police what happened.

3) Innocent victims want to cooperate with the investigation.

4) Innocent victims don't clam up and say "I ain't sayin' nutin' without mah lawyah."

5) Innocent victims sure as hell don't flee the scene.
 
This question keeps coming up, and typically generates the same responses, many of which can be quite dangerous for folks to follow. Please keep the following in mind:

1) The responding LE agency is there to stabilize the situation and to determine if a crime occurred. If its immediately apparent that the shooting was justified, they're your friends, if its immediately apparent that the shooting is bad, they're not your friend. If it's not immediately clear which is which (and this is typically the case), it can go either way. I've responded to hundreds of defensive force cases, with about twenty of them being shootings. None of the shooters went to jail. There were two non-shooting cases where the alleged victims went to jail. Don't fall for the hogwash that you're going to be arrested simply because there was a shooting. The numbers clearly show otherwise.

2) Shootings are traumatic events and there is a long history showing that folks affected by the event don't fully consider the import of their speech following the event (and this applies equally to LEOs and non-LEOs). Once words are spoken, they can't be retracted, and it's very difficult to correct them for context.

3) You most certainly have a moral obligation to protect the safety of others in the area, and if you review New York v Quarles, probably also have a legal obligation to the same. The Quarles case gave rise to what has been termed the "Public Safety Statement." The "Public Safety Statement" consists of that information that is immediately needed by responding officers to secure the scene, locate potentially injured parties, and to secure suspect(s). In Quarles, the U.S. Supreme Court held that immediate need for the safety information trumped the right to remain silent. Although the term "Public Safety Statement" is most often used in the context of a LEO shooting, the case law origins make it equally applicable to private person shootings. Please note that the reason you elected to employ deadly force does not meet the criteria for inclusion in a "Public Safety Statement." Don't have that discussion at the scene.

4) The absolute worst thing to say is "I was in fear for my life." There's a couple of reasons why this is so stupid. First, there is absolutely no reason for you to explain the reason for employing deadly force at the scene. Let that one wait until you've met with your attorney. Secondly, that statement invites the follow-on question of "Why were you in fear for your life?" If you answer, then you're having a discussion that's premature. If you don't answer the question, then your silence can be taken as an "Adoptive Admission" (please refer to Salinas v Texas). Why put yourself in such a dilemma if you don't have to?

5) A shooting incident does not end with the last shot being fired. You need to ensure the safety of the scene until officers arrive, and then ensure a smooth transition. Expect that the LEOs will take the lead in managing the transition.

6) When you put all of the above together, you get to the best possible post-shooting advice. This is what nearly every LE agency instructs their officers, and it's equally good advice for everyone else. When involved in a shooting: 1) Manage the scene, 2) Get first responders (LE and Medical) rolling. 3) Give a deliberated "Public Safety Statement" to the first responding LEOs. 4) Do not make any additional statements until you have conferred with counsel. A good attorney will not tell you what to say. The value in a good attorney is that they can illustrate the shortcomings of your words, and the degree to which your words can be taken out of context.
 
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Indeed. I think, at this point, we are all pretty much universally agreed that the first call should be 911. This was always my belief, as well. I started the discussion because I was intrigued by the notion that your lawyer's words cannot be used against you, so better for him to make the call. The general consensus here is that this is typical internet bunk. At this point, we might consider that this topic has run its course.
Where did you get the notion "that your lawyer's words cannot be used against you"?

Such is not the case. I've had several colleagues present cases where the suspect's lawyer was involved in the underlying crime. When the case is pled, the attorney typically becomes disqualified from representation. We'll typically do a search warrant on the legal offices involved (with a special master assigned) and then battle out the claim of privileges in court. Most commonly, what was said between the lawyer and client remains protected, but what the lawyer said to others is not.

It's also important to remember that the "Attorney - Client" privilege belongs to the client and not to the attorney. In many of the above cases, where the attorney became a defendant, and where the attorney's conduct was the more egregious, a typical prosecution strategy was to "turn" the client against the attorney, producing a waiver of the privilege.
 
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I am trying to imagine a situation where it would be better to call the lawyer FIRST. I'm having to stretch my brain to get there. Something like; you are alone in a home or place with no other witnesses or interference, and the person you shot is clearly dead, and there is truly no urgency to the situation. No one needs an ambulance, no evidence to go stale, etc. So you call your lawyer, tell them to come meet you either at the scene or at the police station, whichever is more practical for that district. But your lawyer will STILL tell you that the first thing you should do is hang up and call the police.

The first one to call the police is the victim. Even if you can't literally be the first to call, you need to get it on record that you were the victim. I just can't see it looking good, if every other witness is on the phone to 911, and when they give statements saying you were on your phone too, and the police ask you; "Who were you calling?", and you say "my lawyer", I just can't see the DA or the jury believing that was the appropriate call for the situation. When you get cuffed and processed, you will be able to contact your lawyer. Even if you are cuffed at the scene, I can see asking the police to give you your phone to let you contact your lawyer. Or help you dial it. They may say no, but you got it on record that you tried.
 
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