Dilettante
Member
Now we know why there isn't any national War On Ferrets!
[Yeah right, like the law is logical. Later on I'll tell you my DMV story from this morning.
]
Caller seeking marijuana dials sheriff 's cell phone
- Thread starter TheeBadOne
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Now we know why there isn't any national War On Ferrets!
[Yeah right, like the law is logical. Later on I'll tell you my DMV story from this morning.
]Augustwest
Member
No. Legalize drugs and let parents do their jobs.
I'm not arguing for a nation of stoned kids here, but it's not the place of a reasonable government to regulate these things.
And I maintain that if kids are going to get intoxicated, pot's a far safer choice than alcohol.
Respect for law is extremely important.
It's just so hard to foster that respect with such silly laws.
And all the "but ... if it is legal to <smoke pot, drink booze, carry guns, own 'assault weapons', etc, ad infinitum>, everyone will be date-rapin', cop-killin', dope-sellin', bone thugs." excuses in the world don't do anything to make Prohibition more logical.
Why is use of an illegal substance worse than abuse of a legal one?
It's just so hard to foster that respect with such silly laws.
And all the "but ... if it is legal to <smoke pot, drink booze, carry guns, own 'assault weapons', etc, ad infinitum>, everyone will be date-rapin', cop-killin', dope-sellin', bone thugs." excuses in the world don't do anything to make Prohibition more logical.
Why is use of an illegal substance worse than abuse of a legal one?
Lulu...what we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Dem girls shoulda been busted for bad phone manners and poor communication skills.
"Write on the blackboard..er your laptop (no cutting and pasting).. five hundred times - Hello...this is Lulu, can I speak to my dealer (insert name here) please."
Dem girls shoulda been busted for bad phone manners and poor communication skills.
"Write on the blackboard..er your laptop (no cutting and pasting).. five hundred times - Hello...this is Lulu, can I speak to my dealer (insert name here) please."
mjydrafter
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2003
- Messages
- 71
Not exactly what I had in mind, but if it works...
I have young children, I would rather that they didn't experiment drugs, but if they are going to experiment, I would like them to be safe about it. MJ is one of the safest substances on the planet, as far as intoxicants go. Again I'm not trying to incourage/condone drug use.
I'm more for an official mandate to ignore drugs and drug users. Keep the laws in place for Darwin canidates (like the girls in the story) and those that take advantage of a good thing. Use some common sense in everything from enforcement to justice.
I mean seriously what do we spend annually on the WOD? What have we gotten for our 70 year investment? The supply is still there. The demand is still there. I don't think we've done much more than waste time, energy, and huge piles of money.
hops
Member
This whole drug debate always reminds me of the scence near tha end in the movie North Dallas Forty, where Nick Nolte's character has his football contract cancelled / or to be cancelled because he violated the morals clause in his contract for smoking weed at a party with Mack Davis' character.
Nolte's character says' "You have me take harder drugs just so that I can play."
The law is a funny thing.
The only thing I care about drugs is, that if you commit other crimes while using drugs, or to support your drug habbit - off to the big house you go for doing those things.
We'll never win the war on drugs, just like we'll never win the war on poverty. Drug use has been part of human life since way back when the first woman rented herself to a man and when the first man or woman made a weapon for moral purposes and the used it for immoral purposes.
I choose not to do drugs. But then my body makes me all the happy drugs I need and it's free....
Nolte's character says' "You have me take harder drugs just so that I can play."
The law is a funny thing.
The only thing I care about drugs is, that if you commit other crimes while using drugs, or to support your drug habbit - off to the big house you go for doing those things.
We'll never win the war on drugs, just like we'll never win the war on poverty. Drug use has been part of human life since way back when the first woman rented herself to a man and when the first man or woman made a weapon for moral purposes and the used it for immoral purposes.
I choose not to do drugs. But then my body makes me all the happy drugs I need and it's free....
US CA: The 'War On Drugs' And The Death Of Compassion
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99.n1386.a03.html
Newshawk: http://emporium.turnpike.net/~jnr/think.htm
Pubdate: December 1999
Source: Kehillat Isreal (CA)
Address: 16019 Sunset Boulevard, Pacific Palisades CA 90272
Fax: (310) 573-2098
Author: Rabbi Steven Carr Reuben
Note: At the service Tuesday for Jim Rosenfield Rabbi Ruben introduced the
newsletter in which this article is printed with the comment that he had
received daily email messages from Jim demanding an answer to what the
Jewish community was going to do about these injustices. He also smiled as
he said how happy he was that Jim knew that he had started this series.
THE "WAR ON DRUGS" AND THE DEATH OF COMPASSION
First In A Series
In 1980 the Federal government spent $4 billion on the drug war. This year we are spending over four times that much, and the saddest part is that most of that money goes not to help people stop using drugs or get help for their addictions, but simply to throw them in prison.
Drug arrests have now pushed the U.S. jail and prison population to over 1.8 million people, almost the highest in the world, of whom an estimated 1.2 million are alcohol or drug abusers. In addition, 2.3 million are on probation and parole. Few of these people are violent, high-level dealers. In fact, more than 90% of all drug arrests are of nonviolent offenders guilty only of possession or of dealing small quantities to support their own habits.
Our lack of an intelligent social policy and the fear that plagues elected leaders of being branded as "soft on drugs" has led to a crisis in America that should embarrass and shame us all with its cruelty and lack of both compassion and plain common sense.
Consider this - the annual cost to incarcerate one addict in prison is about $25,900. The annual cost to provide long-term residential treatment for one addict is about $6,800. The cost to decrease cocaine consumption 1% by eradicating the sources of supply is about $783 million. The cost to decrease cocaine consumption 1% by increasing drug treatment is about $34 million. Even someone as bad in math as I can instantly see how foolishly we are wasting our precious financial resources that could be eradicating illiteracy and providing parenting classes to reduce child abuse and family violence instead of this misguided war.
It is time to reassess the monumental waste of public funds that is destroying millions of families needlessly, incarcerating and taking fathers and mothers who pose no real threat to society away from their children every day.
Instead we need to look seriously at how other countries have dealt in a compassionate way with addictions of all kinds, including drugs, and stop punishing the very people who are most in need of our help.
URL: http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v99.n1386.a03.html
Newshawk: http://emporium.turnpike.net/~jnr/think.htm
Pubdate: December 1999
Source: Kehillat Isreal (CA)
Address: 16019 Sunset Boulevard, Pacific Palisades CA 90272
Fax: (310) 573-2098
Author: Rabbi Steven Carr Reuben
Note: At the service Tuesday for Jim Rosenfield Rabbi Ruben introduced the
newsletter in which this article is printed with the comment that he had
received daily email messages from Jim demanding an answer to what the
Jewish community was going to do about these injustices. He also smiled as
he said how happy he was that Jim knew that he had started this series.
THE "WAR ON DRUGS" AND THE DEATH OF COMPASSION
First In A Series
In 1980 the Federal government spent $4 billion on the drug war. This year we are spending over four times that much, and the saddest part is that most of that money goes not to help people stop using drugs or get help for their addictions, but simply to throw them in prison.
Drug arrests have now pushed the U.S. jail and prison population to over 1.8 million people, almost the highest in the world, of whom an estimated 1.2 million are alcohol or drug abusers. In addition, 2.3 million are on probation and parole. Few of these people are violent, high-level dealers. In fact, more than 90% of all drug arrests are of nonviolent offenders guilty only of possession or of dealing small quantities to support their own habits.
Our lack of an intelligent social policy and the fear that plagues elected leaders of being branded as "soft on drugs" has led to a crisis in America that should embarrass and shame us all with its cruelty and lack of both compassion and plain common sense.
Consider this - the annual cost to incarcerate one addict in prison is about $25,900. The annual cost to provide long-term residential treatment for one addict is about $6,800. The cost to decrease cocaine consumption 1% by eradicating the sources of supply is about $783 million. The cost to decrease cocaine consumption 1% by increasing drug treatment is about $34 million. Even someone as bad in math as I can instantly see how foolishly we are wasting our precious financial resources that could be eradicating illiteracy and providing parenting classes to reduce child abuse and family violence instead of this misguided war.
It is time to reassess the monumental waste of public funds that is destroying millions of families needlessly, incarcerating and taking fathers and mothers who pose no real threat to society away from their children every day.
Instead we need to look seriously at how other countries have dealt in a compassionate way with addictions of all kinds, including drugs, and stop punishing the very people who are most in need of our help.
LiquidTension
Member
TheeBadOne -
">sigh< I'm disappointed by these narrow points of view. "
You just assume that everyone who smokes pot will become a hardened criminal, and that makes ME narrow minded?
Oh, you're right! All of my close friends that have smoked pot are now murderers and rapists! How could I have missed it?! Yeah, one of my buddies that smokes more in a day than most people do in a lifetime owns his own business and makes over $125,000 a year. Come to think of it, NONE of my friends that smoke pot are criminals (other than the pot smoking I mean). They're all quite productive, actually. My point is this - don't call me narrow minded when I'm open to the possibility that pot is not harmful - especially when you are not willing to consider it at all. That just makes you a hypocrite.
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. These girls should be punished because they were freakin' morons, not because of some pot that they didn't even have.
I've said it once, I'll say it again for the record: Pot is not a drug, it is a hobby.
">sigh< I'm disappointed by these narrow points of view. "
You just assume that everyone who smokes pot will become a hardened criminal, and that makes ME narrow minded?
Oh, you're right! All of my close friends that have smoked pot are now murderers and rapists! How could I have missed it?!
Yeah, one of my buddies that smokes more in a day than most people do in a lifetime owns his own business and makes over $125,000 a year. Come to think of it, NONE of my friends that smoke pot are criminals (other than the pot smoking I mean). They're all quite productive, actually. My point is this - don't call me narrow minded when I'm open to the possibility that pot is not harmful - especially when you are not willing to consider it at all. That just makes you a hypocrite. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. These girls should be punished because they were freakin' morons, not because of some pot that they didn't even have.
I've said it once, I'll say it again for the record: Pot is not a drug, it is a hobby.
Oracle
Member
I will agree that the story is very funny. I don't think that the girls are going to be able to give away their "hook up" if they are calling the sheriff's cell-phone trying to get drugs .
As for the whole drug issue, I think everyone with half a brain realizes that the war on drugs is ridiculous, causes far, far more problems than it solves, and is primarily a tool for violating the rights of the citizens of this country under the color of law, just as alcohol prohibition was.
Of course, with the government's enormous respect for the laws restricting what it can do (the U.S. Constitution) it's of little wonder that so few people respect the laws the government passes trying to restrict it's citizens behaviors.
. As for the whole drug issue, I think everyone with half a brain realizes that the war on drugs is ridiculous, causes far, far more problems than it solves, and is primarily a tool for violating the rights of the citizens of this country under the color of law, just as alcohol prohibition was.
Of course, with the government's enormous respect for the laws restricting what it can do (the U.S. Constitution) it's of little wonder that so few people respect the laws the government passes trying to restrict it's citizens behaviors.
Jim March
Member
HELL NO!
You realize what you've just described? A world where the cops can nail who they personally dislike.
I *know* what police discretion is and how it gets abused.
Tamara
Senior Member
TarpleyG,
To type that on a board that is largely dedicated to "bitchin'" about dumb gun laws is, well, pretty funny, actually.
To type that on a board that is largely dedicated to "bitchin'" about dumb gun laws is, well, pretty funny, actually.
WonderNine
member
I'm so glad there are officer doofuses out there making bars safe from me and my 19 year old girlfriend.
Thank God for the war on some drugs!
Maybe when I'm 25.3 I'll be able to take her out for her first legal drink.
Thank God for the war on some drugs!
Maybe when I'm 25.3 I'll be able to take her out for her first legal drink.
mjydrafter
Member
- Joined
- Apr 29, 2003
- Messages
- 71
That wasn't what I was shootin' for, but you're right. I was aiming for something a little more like Holland's laws. While technically illegal it is officially overlooked. Yes, it would take some common sense to work out. Perhaps more than I can imagine, after all judges aren't even allowed to hand out reasonable sentances with the mandatory minimum garbage. Maybe it's too much to ask for police to be evenhanded in thier enforcement when we don't trust our judges to come up with proper punishments for those who would break these victimless laws.
The WOD is a mess, I would think that the populace would be able to see that we are getting very little (increased civil liberty violations and actual monitary value) for our investment.
It's hard for me to understand the logic of any kind of prohibition, but they do say, those who don't study it, are doomed to repeat it...
only1asterisk
member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2003
- Messages
- 2,412
My opinion and $1.00 may still get you a cup of coffee, but I think the pot posts are out of place. Is that why you call it "The High Road"?
I don't like the way things are with respect to drug enforcement, but I don't see an alternative in legalization. Regardless of my feelings, there has to be a better forum to discuss the issue.
David
I don't like the way things are with respect to drug enforcement, but I don't see an alternative in legalization. Regardless of my feelings, there has to be a better forum to discuss the issue.
David
1*,
Drug prohibition and gun prohibition have enjoyed a long and incestuous relationship - even with the inception of federal gun control in 1934 in the NFA (you know the history behind that, right?). The War on Some Drugs has been used to hack at civil liberties with almost as much success as the War on Some Terror.
Given that, how can you say that WoSD is not appropriate for the legal/political section of The High Road?
Drug prohibition and gun prohibition have enjoyed a long and incestuous relationship - even with the inception of federal gun control in 1934 in the NFA (you know the history behind that, right?). The War on Some Drugs has been used to hack at civil liberties with almost as much success as the War on Some Terror.
Given that, how can you say that WoSD is not appropriate for the legal/political section of The High Road?
only1asterisk
member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2003
- Messages
- 2,412
I didn't say that civil liberties affected by enforcement were not appropiate topics, but I fail to see how making grass legit would have would make a difference in individual freedom for most of us. Nothing would change, no ground would be gained and I would have deal with more smoked up idiots than I already do. It appears to be a net loss.
My real problem with the drug related posts is that, while it reflects the libertarian values of most of us on The High Road, it may put some more moderate people off. I though The High Road was supposed to be a friendly, inclusive enviroment, presenting freedom-loving gun owners in the very best light. I see some of the content of this and other threads running contrary to that goal.
Like I said, just an opinion.
David
My real problem with the drug related posts is that, while it reflects the libertarian values of most of us on The High Road, it may put some more moderate people off. I though The High Road was supposed to be a friendly, inclusive enviroment, presenting freedom-loving gun owners in the very best light. I see some of the content of this and other threads running contrary to that goal.
Like I said, just an opinion.
David
only1asterisk
member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2003
- Messages
- 2,412
Cordex,
Wasn't the original federal law against pot very similar to NFA? I see the your point, but I don't think the "benefits" would be as widespread, instant or positive as proposed. The NFA didn't disappear when prohibition ended. The '86 ban or AWB aren't goint to dissolve either. The property search/seizure laws will not be changed, the losses are not going to go away.
David
Wasn't the original federal law against pot very similar to NFA? I see the your point, but I don't think the "benefits" would be as widespread, instant or positive as proposed. The NFA didn't disappear when prohibition ended. The '86 ban or AWB aren't goint to dissolve either. The property search/seizure laws will not be changed, the losses are not going to go away.
David
rock jock
Member
Folks, if you want to promote legalization of pot or any other drugs, go right ahead. I am to the point of probably agreeing with you on many of your arguments. BUT, to claim that MJ is not harmful is ludicrous. Furthermore, to rely on "medical information" from pro-MJ groups is no different than relying on the VPC for gun-related data. You lose all the validity of your position when start making, frankly, stupid statements like that.
LiquidTension
Member
Yay, now I've been called close minded AND stupid.
rock jock said:
How is that different from relying on GOA (a pro-gun group) for gun info? If I'm not mistaken, there was a study released a few weeks ago by a medical group that showed there are no ill effects of marijuana. Should we not listen to them either? The thing you're not seeing is that groups that are pro liberty (guns, pot) usually get their info from reliable sources because they don't have to lie to prove their point, unlike VPC and anti-liberty groups that have to make stuff up to "prove" their point.
As for stupid statements, what I say is based on my extensive personal experience. You may not like it, but it is the truth as I have seen it. I know that some people do experience bad things from smoking pot (other drugs, etc) but to claim that I'm stupid for not believing that pot is the devil simply reaks of not wanting to see the possibility that it isn't as bad as the media claims it is.
rock jock said:
How is that different from relying on GOA (a pro-gun group) for gun info? If I'm not mistaken, there was a study released a few weeks ago by a medical group that showed there are no ill effects of marijuana. Should we not listen to them either? The thing you're not seeing is that groups that are pro liberty (guns, pot) usually get their info from reliable sources because they don't have to lie to prove their point, unlike VPC and anti-liberty groups that have to make stuff up to "prove" their point.
As for stupid statements, what I say is based on my extensive personal experience. You may not like it, but it is the truth as I have seen it. I know that some people do experience bad things from smoking pot (other drugs, etc) but to claim that I'm stupid for not believing that pot is the devil simply reaks of not wanting to see the possibility that it isn't as bad as the media claims it is.
Jim March
Member
The "War On (Some) Drugs" is *directly* linked to US violence levels.
The same prohibitionist mindset that criminalizes the drugs drives up the violence levels, which gives them political fodder to ban guns, which drives up the violence levels MORE, which gives political fodder to ban guns...and round and round.
If the drug issue is banned from THR, I'll personally quit. It would mean that the root causes of violence in the US, probably the BIGGEST root cause, is considered too touchy to talk about.
At which point this forum would be useless.
The same prohibitionist mindset that criminalizes the drugs drives up the violence levels, which gives them political fodder to ban guns, which drives up the violence levels MORE, which gives political fodder to ban guns...and round and round.
If the drug issue is banned from THR, I'll personally quit. It would mean that the root causes of violence in the US, probably the BIGGEST root cause, is considered too touchy to talk about.
At which point this forum would be useless.
gunsmith
member
thank God for dumb teen girls
When I wuz a lonely teenage bronkin buck
with a pink carnation and a pick up truck,
I woulda been outa luck without teen gals
that wernt smart as me....heh
FREE THE FERRETS NOW
/
WHERE am I
When I wuz a lonely teenage bronkin buck
with a pink carnation and a pick up truck,
I woulda been outa luck without teen gals
that wernt smart as me....heh
FREE THE FERRETS NOW
/
WHERE am I
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