Calling those who like improved AR15 platforms

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leadcounsel

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Okay, I'm in the market for an advanced AR15 platform, one that addresses the main deficiencies with the AR15. I'm looking for a "better" AR15 platform if you will. Some things to consider:

1. Piston driven bolt;
2. Interchangable barrels/magazines with 7.62x39 and/or 6.8;
3. Integrated rail systems;
4. Improved collapsable stock.

I saw some madebby Magpul Masada. I think it's set to be marketed by Bushmaster. Anyone have any thoughts? I'm looking for something like this.

Please include ballpark prices...
 
All but #2 are widely marketed. #2 can be easily solved by multiple uppers. As nifty as the ACR is, I don't think it will be "battle ready" for some time. New designs always have a "beta test" period. Plus I'm not sure the ACR shares many parts with the AR-15, in the sense that an off-the-shelf Ar-15 field repair kit would work well.

While I lust for a piston driven upper like most, other than presumably easier clean-up, I'm not sure I'm gonna see any tangible improvement. All the commercial piston driven upper s I've seen are around $1000, versus $500-600 for a similar gas driven upper. The new wave of "AR-like" designs all seem to be hitting the $1500 range, which I expect the ACR to be in as well.
 
The only AR-15 system with easily-interchangeable barrels is the Lewis Machine & Tool "MRP" platform. It is not yet available in a piston configuration, but they have stated a piston system is forthcoming. It does have the integral rail you seek.

The stock is simply a question of purchasing and installing a suitable stock upon your AR15 of choice. Magpul makes a wide line of excellent and very popular collapsable stocks.
 
One thing about the gas piston system: they do have numerous conversion kits out for it that are much more reasonable and utilize your existing upper.
 
There are several piston kits availible, the only problem is they aren't exactly cheap and you'd have to buy two for two seperate uppers in your two calibers.

Rails are easy to find.

Stocks are easy to find.

No idea on the mags, search google.
 
I'd venture to guess that your best bet would be the LMT MRP, and then upgrade it in the future with the gas piston set up when they release that.

It otherwise meets your requirements, and is an excellent piece of equipment. 7.62x39 is not an alternate caliber option at this time, but you can get 6.8 Rem SPC and .204 barrels etc for it. No reason why a 7.62x39 or 6.5 Grendel (or whatever else, within magwell limitations) set up would not also be possible with it, just takes some letter writing campaigns to the manufacturer.
 
You may find out that the "improved" AR-15 is what we have right now in the M16A4 and the M4. Increasing the caliber of the cartridge might be a good idea in some situations however.

Of course, if you want to own a piston driven upper with interchangeable barrels just so you can be different, then more power to you. I wouldn't say it's "improved" however.

While interchangeable barrels are neat, don't you have to rezero your rifle every time you change the barrel? Say for instance, from a 14.5" M4 to an 18" precision rifle. Each configuration might have different optics or sights that will need to be zeroed.

If you stick with the tried and true uppers rather than interchangeable barrel system like the MRP or Masada, you don't have to rezero for each barrel. Say for instance, a 14.5" M4 with a red dot scope to a 20" precision rifle with a 10x scope.

Alexander Arms and Sabre Defense make 6.5mm Grendel uppers for around $800 to $900. The Grendel has better ballistics than the 6.8mm SPC and 7.62x39mm. I'd suggest doing some research on the Grendel. It's a better cartridge than the 6.8mm SPC and the 7.62x39mm.

The Robinson Arms XCR is available in 6.5mm Grendel as well. It's over $1,500.

What do you think a gas piston will give you that you don't already have? You'll have less accuracy (read the reports on the H&K 416 in regards to it's accuracy as compared to the M16 and M4) and you'll spend near twice as much for an unproven system. The tried and true M16 and M4 gas systems have been with us for a long time.

The recent Army "extreme" desert dust tests with the M4 versus the H&K 416, H&K XM8, and FN SCAR had the M4 in last place. News reports loudly proclaimed the M4 to "perform poorly." Here's a few observations:

1. Milspec magazines are woefully outdated. How would the M16/M4 perform in the dust tests if they used Magpul Pmag magazines rather than the crapola milspec aluminium magazines? At least the Army could have installed Magpul anti-tilt followers in milspec magazines.

2. From a practical perspective, the test means that if you get into a firefight in a sand storm where you fire 600 rounds of ammo, you'll have about 10 stoppages with an M4. With the H&K 416, FN SCAR, etc. you have around 5 stoppages. Of course, this is assuming this data translates into the real world accurately.

3. I would still feel comfortable carrying an M4 since firing twice the amount of ammo I can carry with me in the middle of a 2.5 hour sand storm with no additional cleaning or lube seems like a fairly extreme test for any rifle.

A gas piston would allow you to use a folding stock.

LMT makes a great collapsible stock. The "SOPMOD stock" has an improved cheek area so you can maintain a proper cheek weld. It's not overly large and has compartments for batteries.

I don't have anything to say about integrated rail systems because I don't care for them. I don't need flash lights, laser pointers, and such hanging off my gun.

You can mount a forward grip on a small rail mounted to standard hand guards. MidwayUSA sells the "Falcon Industries Picatinny Rail with Rail Covers and Mounting Hardware" for $15: http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=191715&t=11082005

If you want to improve your AR-15 buy some good magazines such as Magpul Pmags or milspec magazines with Magpul anti-tilt followers.
 
If you're looking to stay current on the never-ending, exponential curve of relatively untested AR platform "improvements"...good luck.

-If the existing direct-impingement gas system failed regularly (when cleaned & maintained) the piston drive would then be vital to my happiness.

-Having bought/built several convertible firearms, I've found (much like adjustable shocks on my Porsche) that I just didn't swap (adjust) them often enough to legitimize the expense. Knowing that they're at home didn't make the one I've installed any more practical. The 556 NATO is available in a BUNCH of load configurations.

-Rails are easy & on almost everything, heck, even some S&W "tactical" revolvers. I like 'em & use 'em...but having them all-the-way-around means - you then need to buy rail covers. What up with THAT?

-I bought/tried the entire $$$ range of collapsable AR stocks. I shoot better with the ACE skeleton fixed full-length (with a short pad). Whew! Done.

I'm not trying to rain on your AR parade. This is just a few observations from a guy who's spent a bunch of thought, time & money to finally decide that shooting well is eventually a LOT more fun than continue spending a bunch of thought, time & money. As I said earlier...good luck. :cool:
 
The VLTOR VIS, while they specifically have said is not a "quick" barrel change system, is capable of fairly easy barrel switching. It is similar to the LMT MRP, except that it can use any regular AR barrel, not just the special LMT ones.
 
@Ragsdale85

The DI system as opposed to piston has nothing to do with the accuracy or otherwise of the M16/AR15 platform versus a piston environment. The issues that affect accuracy include manufacturing quality, tolerances, component materials, barrel build weight and metal, ammunition etc

If that was the case then everyone would only use a DI environment as opposed to only the M16 platform

As an example the L85 and L85A2, bullpup, piston systems were and remain so accurate that the British Army had to revamp and up the requirements for squaddies to pass firearms certification.
 
I will tell you the best and greatest improved AR15 platform there is to get. You don't need piston conversion or overpriced piston uppers, nor will you need the overpriced $250 stock. You don't need to hang a couple hundred dollars worth of handguards either off of your barrel. Get a nice STAG, Bushmaster, RRA or even DPMS or any other nice well built AR15 and here's the kicker: Get a thousand rounds and hit the range.

After you fire a 1000 rounds or so, you will know if there is anything you NEED to change that will ACTUALLY work. I don't know how many times I have seen people spend way too much money on crap that is really well useless. I know one guy who bought a $1000 AR15 then bought handguards with two pistol grips on the handguards and a bipod for a 16 inch gun. Here's the kicker: He has yet to fire one round!

Invest your money in ammo and hit the range! I guarantee you the best AR15is the one where the shooter knows how to put steel on target. All those other internet commandos who brag about their super duty new and improved this and that about their tactical and their tactical tactical, won't hold a candle to you.

Just put the money in yourself first. You will be so much better off and have more money in your wallet not to mention you will leave the other internet commandos grasping for reasons they got outshot by you.
 
Gadgets do not win gunfights.
Its not the song, its the singer.

IME most of the so called "improvements" to the AR platform do nothing but improve the speed of money leaving your wallet. In the "DI" type AR, if you keep the bolt/bolt carrier lubricated with whatever quality lubricant you like, it will work. 99.9% of the guys/gals I know who have been or are in the sandbox have no reliability problems with the "DI" type M16/M4.

There must be some kind of contest going on to see how much junk you can hang off of an AR. Most people don't understand the more junk you have hanging off of it, the greater the chance of something breaking, batteries dying, something getting caught on something etc, and it will go wrong or break at the worst possible time.

As previously mentioned in this thread, buying a quality AR, good magazines, good ammo, and learning to shoot the rifle will go a long way to achieving the goals you seek.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
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