Calm and collected, or blind panic?

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Do you assume you will be calm and collected in an emergency, or acting in a blind panic?

I, personally, always try to prepare under the assumption i will be in (or near) a blind panic, meaning i try to keep things very simple.

Reading through a lot of the "What would you do" threads got me thinking -- is this what people would really do, or is it what they'd like to believe they'd have the presence of mind to do? And how many know how they'd behave in a life-or-death situation?

The only real life-or-death situations I've ever been in were life-or-death for somebody else, and I just happened to be there. (i.e., giving CPR.) I assume that is a very different adrenaline rush than if you find yourself personally facing danger.

I try to be honest (pessimistic, even) with myself, not counting on my being "calm and collected" in an emergency.
 
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I've had three incidents 1 (unjustified) I came home and found my front door open and instead of calling the cops I went in after the bad guy. My heart was pounding, I went into tunnel vision,
and my hearing was like I was hearing under water. BTW the "bg" turned out to be a half senile maintainence man.

and 2 justified

1. 17 years old driving in Omaha carload of kids pulls up next to me and starts yelling at me and brandishing bats. I picked up a .357 (no it wasn't legal) and let them see it. The driver took the next left while the idiot riding shot gun was still screaming that he was gonna kick my ass.

I didn't start shaking until they were gone.

2. Walking through a dark parking lot guy jumps out from between two cars probably 10 feet or so behind me yelling. I turn and draw ( from the pocket of my hoodie) he sees the gun coming out and bails.

I was panicked I completly forgot that I was carrying condition 3 if seeing the gun didn't do the trick I'd of lost that one
 
I live with the premise...

that I'll be calm and rational and yet know from my few threatening experiences that "blind panic", if not in full control of my senses, is winning the war. I read this and other relatings with the hope I can have a prepared response for the unknown situation.:confused:
 
Ultimately, the only way to know how you will react in a situation like that is to have been through one. That's not a good answer. I've always hated the "You have to have experience before you can do this. You can't get experience except by doing this." kind of answer.


The next best way to know is to purposely train as close as possible to realism. I currently am training in a more modern martial art that is characterized at higher levels by including and welcoming cross training with guns and other weapons. This isn't an advertisement or a martial arts forum so PM me if you want info. The training that we're undergoing focuses on preparing you for rough, out of control, unpredictable situations. We often have to "acheive the objective" (ie keep on hitting someone, find the person in a crowded room and take them down, switch between multiple attackers) while being beaten on by someone else from behind, loud random music, strobe lights, fog machine, multiple innocent people standing around, and random switches in goals right during the middle of a drill. Some schools have even used some of the "drunk-buster" goggles that simulate drunken vision.

The goal is to get you used to being presented with hundreds of pieces of information about the situation all at the same time. You have to immediately filter out everything but what is neccessary and then take exactly the steps required to deal with the situation. Being tired, overwhelmed, angry, or scared cannot be allowed to stop you from doing what you have to do.

The problem with training in this fashion using a gun is obviously that of safety. My advice would simply be to break it down into two areas of training. One of them understandably is going to have to be on the range. Ideally, you're going to need a range that will allow you to: move around through the range and work on random targets, work on things without having other shooters around, and have a spotter right there with you (ideally directly behind you at all times). Your spotter must be someone with: a good background in gun safety and at least an understanding of what you're trying to acheive. Your spotter will need to be the one to decide: what targets you will be facing and when, what disruptions/distractions/problems you will be facing, and especially if you have to stop the drill quickly due to a gun safety issue. Ideally, the sessions will focus not only on accuracy and speed, but on decision making and realism.


The second area that I would train in will require you to get a hard plastic practice gun. These are available today in brightly colored exact copies of almost every single handgun that exists. You will almost certainly be able to find a copy of your preferred carry. Or, sheesh, just cut one out of wood with a skill saw. It's best to use these during the next part so that you do not have to worry about gun safety at all and are free to focus on other areas. What you want to work on at this point is getting your weapon out and into play. I have often heard statements and VERY often made statements like, "Don't even think about it, man. I'd have a gun out and shoot you before you could do XXXX. I could be doing anything and still have a gun out before you could blink." Please leave your ego at the door. I've often said that I could do something and then ended up embarrassing myself when I actually tried to do it.

Once again, you're going to need a partner or two. Ideally, you would be able to find a skilled realistic martial artist to work with you. Wear normal clothing and carry the plastic gun holstered the exact same way you normally would. A bit of padding or foam protection can help save some bruises too. Then start working on scenarios. Here's a few that you might like to try:

Man with a knife/stick/gun/fists:
15 feet away
10 feet away
10 feet behind you, shouts your name and then attacks
10 feet away, throws a couch pillow and then attacks
Two men behind you, one screams and pulls a weapon...the other just screams
Man with a weapon attacking someone next to you.
You seated in a chair.
You seated in a booth (chair and table can't move).
You seated in a car, front seat, driver's seat, back seat.
One attacker in front of you at ten feet while someone else beats on you with a pillow, cushion, grabs your shoulders and tries to move you, grabs your arm, bumps into you from the side, starts screaming.
Starting with your eyes closed and the attacker in random locations
Someone turns out the lights two seconds into the drill
Etc...

In addition, the attacker should not stop simply because you get the gun out. Someone with a knife attacking you (training knife I hope) shouldn't just try to stab you once...it should be repeatedly. Someone trying to tackle you should nail you if you don't move. You're going to have to make your own choices between yourselves about when your attacker is going to stop, but a gun isn't some kind of magic wand. In our day of doped up idiots, it often takes a bit to stop someone. The goal in all of these drills is to force you into a confusing situation and force you to make a decision, take an action, and follow through with your self defence regardless of what happens. You're going to be surprised at first, how fast somone can close the distance on you.

Ultimately, the way you train will be the way you react. If real life exceeds the scope of your training, you will not react correctly. My $.02.

Jesse
 
JesseKM said:
currently am training in a more modern martial art that is characterized at higher levels by including and welcoming cross training with guns and other weapons. This isn't an advertisement or a martial arts forum so PM me if you want info. The training that we're undergoing focuses on preparing you for rough, out of control, unpredictable situations. We often have to "acheive the objective" (ie keep on hitting someone, find the person in a crowded room and take them down, switch between multiple attackers) while being beaten on by someone else from behind, loud random music, strobe lights, fog machine, multiple innocent people standing around, and random switches in goals right during the middle of a drill. Some schools have even used some of the "drunk-buster" goggles that simulate drunken vision.

Krav Maga?
 
I don't panic. I'm just wired that way. I have felt the urge to panic, but, for whatever reason, I have this built in mechanism that catches that urge before it does any damage.

If things go sideways I might be charged up pretty good. But I never panic. Always using the noodle.

Comes from being a left-brainer I guess. ;)


-T.
 
JesseKM said:
Ultimately, the way you train will be the way you react. If real life exceeds the scope of your training, you will not react correctly. My $.02.

I agree.

I guess the question then becomes, "How much training, realistically, is enough?"
 
Thernlund said:
I don't panic. I'm just wired that way. I have felt the urge to panic, but, for whatever reason, I have this built in mechanism that catches that urge before it does any damage.

If things go sideways I might be charged up pretty good. But I never panic. Always using the noodle.

Comes from being a left-brainer I guess.

I have yet to be in a situation where i panic, but I don't know if it's because I've not been in a sufficiently hairy situation, or am not prone to panic.

Either way, i try never to assume I won't panic.
 
Yes, I'm taking Krav Maga. I have been extremely impressed with the realism of it and the focus on street practicality. That being said, I don't want to hijack your thread, and all Krav Maga is not created equal. There's a few schools in your area and I'd be glad to start another thread or continue a discussion with PM's.



"I guess the question then becomes, 'How much training, realistically, is enough?'"

How on earth do you answer that? Every single person is different and every single incident is different. You're not writing a book or a program that can be finished. You're training a person...an individual life. It may sound a bit obvious, but to do that takes a lifetime. Your goal has to be to train TODAY 110% in order to have the best % chance to win if a situation happens TODAY. Plan training, plan systematic progression, plan what you'll do tomorrow...but don't forget that a bad incident is a moment in time that you can't plan. All you can do is your best right now.

I guess a clearer way to state it would be this. If you trained with the best people possible in the world, the most realistic situations possible, went into battle and tested everything in actual combat situations, shot people because you had to, defended your loved ones, won every honor and medal in the book and knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that you could deal with every situation you possibly could encounter;...would you then stop training? My answer would be "no". We live in moments in time. There is no perfect world or completed person. All I can do is my best and trust to God for the rest.
 
Train for it. Then your brain doesn't even have to be fully functioning during life-or-death situations.

That's why the military and martial arts train you in repetitive actions (muscle memory)-because when the SHTF, your brain will likely turn-off and your body will react naturally with either trained responses, or nothing since your brain probably won't be sending you messages fast enough for them to do any good.

The US Army's investigation found that soldiers have to go through more than 2-5 firefights before their brains fully "catch-up" to what the body is trained to do. (that's why NCOs are so important in the battlefield)

Even in full panic mode, your body has a better chance of survival if it already knows what responses are appropriate for the situation.
 
Ultimately, the way you train will be the way you react. If real life exceeds the scope of your training, you will not react correctly. My $.02.

This isn't actually correct in context. Your body has natural and unavoidable responses to a critical incident. They cannot be unlearned, or untrained. If your training doesn't take them into account, you wont be able to use your training at all.

It doesn't matter how realistic you "try" to make your training. If you aren't training WITH all of the physiological aspects your body will experience under stress, your training will fail. No matter how many situations you present yourself, if you aren't training WITH what your body does naturally, it is a failure.

There are training programs out there that cover this. In print, on DVD, and in person classes. Find some of these programs. They are pretty simple once you've got the concept, and once you've got it, all of your training will add to your effectiveness in a critical incident.
 
JesseKM said:
I guess the question then becomes, 'How much training, realistically, is enough?'"

How on earth do you answer that?

Oh, I wasn't asking somebody else to answer that for me -- i was musing out loud.

Realistically (i.e., what I have time and money for), my training for the foreseeable future will consist of range practice, and I'd like to look into a local IDPA group. Also, from any level of training I'm currently at, my (introspective) question would be, "What would be the most beneficial training in which to engage, given my time and financial considerations?"
 
I see what you're saying, Fear-nm. I guess I'd have to elaborate a little bit. What I was trying to bring out was some various training ideas to incorporate those psychological aspects. Almost all of them can be duplicated through training that focuses on doing so. Everything that I mentioned previously can be done soft and cuddly or as absolutely crazily as you can. There are a lot of reactions that your body is programmed to do. Some of them actually can be retrained and new ones can be trained in such as basic reactions to fear, flinching, blinking, freezing etc. There are a ton of great resources out there to tell you what they are and how to work on them. The best way, of course, is to find someone or a group of people who are knowledgeable and can train you.

Ultimately, you are trying to train your body to react correctly in AUGGHHH! situations (you insert exclamation of your choice). :rolleyes: Ultimately its up to the individual to: seek out and pick the brains of/train with/read the books of/beg for lessons from realistic trainers. Ultimately, its up to the individual to give all they can and deal with the scenarios realistically and seriously. A trainer worth their salt will go well out of their way to exhaust you, disorient you, overload you, and force you into situations without clear choices. Finding someone like that and then giving all you can is your responsibility and mine if we want to be our best.

Lastly, I know that it's impossible to exactly duplicate reality. We don't have the option of throwing everyone into combat cold turkey in order to make sure the survivors have a realistic viewpoint. Even with our changing technological skills and medical understandings, we can't quite duplicate that moment where someone knows it's for real and someone could die. I hope to never be in that situation again, and I hope that anyone reading this will never have to face it in the first place. All I can do is my best to train as close to reality as possible in the mean time. Please, if you have more feedback or ways to make it more realistic, list them. A lot of you guys have been there and done that through no fault of your own ;). What training methods do you use that in your mind aproximate the real life incidents that you went through?

Jesse
 
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I never assume I'll be in a panic. I've never been in one. I'm usually pretty good at keeping my head, so honestly I'm not too worried about it.

I do, however, assume that Murphy's Law is going to selectively target everything I try to do in a stressful situation. I'm a big fan of Keeping It Simple. I'm also a big fan of Have a Plan, but Keep The Plan Flexible, and also Not Being Afraid to Say "Screw The Plan: Need a New Plan".

Training is great, and something I could definitely use more of. No such thing as too much training. Training is a tool, it expands the skillset. If you can't handle stress well, training will be of limited use. If you can, training can harness the ability to keep your head, and turn it toward the most productive and useful courses of action.

Training is good. Thinking is good. Planning is good. Flexibility is good.

The mind is the weapon; physical weapons are enablers for the mind. If I can keep my mind sharp, and ready, then I'm doing well.
 
A simple plan, executed flawlessly with extreme violence of action is the key to victory. --paraphrased from Ranger handbook
Focus on your breathing and listen to your instinct.
After everything is over however I usually run around in a circle while whistling for about half an hour.
 
I got "charged" by the steroid abusing freak who used to live next door in his mom's house. I was out working in the yard and "cornered" where there wasn't a readily available escape route.

Anyways -- he charged and I drew my gun and pointed it at him. I only intended to put my hand on it, IWB. Adrenaline did the rest.

Ayoob stresses that when you practice drawing for defense that you drill for "draw and point" rather than "draw and shoot." If you practice "draw and shoot" you'll find yourself shooting when you react to a stress situation. Pulling the trigger needs to be deliberate, not reflexive.
 
Strange. I don't know why it happens but under stress a different part of my brain takes over and says "This is what you must do - NOW!". Usually good advice.

I still get a cold sweet reaction a few hours later when my rational brain starts telling me how stupid my instinctive brain was.
 
I don't panic. I'm just wired that way. I have felt the urge to panic, but, for whatever reason, I have this built in mechanism that catches that urge before it does any damage.
Same here. No adrenaline, so shakes, I just deal with the situation as best as I can.

Someone once told me that panic only makes things worse, so even if you're freaking out, at least try to appear calm and collected. One person freaking out leads to two, two leads to four, etc. He served 15 years or so in the Military, and he rarely talked about it, so I'm guessing he saw more SNAFU's first hand than I ever will.
 
i was an RN for a long while and have had my share of codes, and bleed-outs and cool anaphylactic reactions..so i dont think id have any issues...i rather like that adrenaline dump. i have trained enough to feel competent but not enough to say im confident.

my better half is a guaranteed panic. freaks at a bloody nose..i don't even pay attention until it is spurting across the room.

if it ever happened, i think id be ok...but would have my hands full managing the family if they were involved as well.
 
The best way that I have found to replicate highly stressful situations in a controlled environment is individual competition. Try USPSA, martial arts matches, boxing, auto racing... whatever. I've been doing it for years and it has helped me dramatically when push really has come to shove.

Another option that has been stated already is active training. Find a combatives instructor and a practice partner. Buy some rubber knives (mark the edges with red snap-line chalk), foam batons and airsoft guns along with safety gear and get to practicing.
 
For some reason, the panic never really hits me until after the situation is over. I have been the victim of a violent crime, and I have had some close calls and scary situations too, and my hands stay steady and my mind stays clear until it's over... then the blast of adrenaline rocks my system like a freight train, and the shakes begin. Thankfully, the situation is long gone by then.
 
Same as many respondents in this thread, in a panic situation I shift gears very quickly into rational, calculating "these are the things that need to be done now" sort of person, which I am not in my daily life.

Same afterwards, shakes, adrenaline comedown, emotional seesaw and second guessing.

I don't pretend to understand it. I know people who are effin' useless in a crisis, and people who are the most "go to" guys you've ever seen, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. If there isn't some study on genetic / conditioning factors and their effect, well there oughtta be.
 
From experience, I know that I address panic situations very calmly - for about 10 minutes, and then emotion may hit. Ergo, the issue must be resolved within that time.
 
Jeff Cooper wrote an article on preparedness that seems to fit most dangerous situations. The key item was to have a plan. To have a plan means you have to have given the situation some thought beforehand.

If you have plans, they can be modified to fit individual situations. Panic comes when you have no plan and your only response is to freeze and think: "I can't believe this is happening to me."

I knew a few deputy sheriffs when I worked for the Sheriff who I knew had no plans or hadn't given them much thought. One deputy almost was killed when he thought he was on a routine 'assist' call for animal control. It never occurred to him that someone would be willing to pull a gun to keep his dog from being taken by animal control.

It seems to me that the people most likely to panic are the ones who are used to having someone else solve their problems. People who are used to solving problems by themselves do a lot better when something awful happens.

My ex-PMS was used to letting someone else solve her problems. When something awful happened, I could count on her to scream, run in circles, hyper-ventilate, and wonder why the gods were punishing her so.

Pilgrim
 
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