Natural Responses
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sacp81170a
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That would be rather similar to the stress involved when I ran across a grizzly bear while hunting up in the Big Horns in Wyoming. There's nothing like sharing space with something that looks at you the way you look at a cheeseburger to get the old heart pumpin'.
Somehow, the 30.06 I was carrying seemed like far too small a gun right about then.
I since have swum with sharks (on purpose) in other locales. Once you get over the sucking wind hard portion it is actually quite exciting. Besides... that is not even the most scared I have been underwater.
I was offshore on a rig once, kind of drifting back and forth under the rig, roughly in a half standing/half sitting position watching HUGE school of Angel Fish slowly move back and forth in the sunlight. Then I heard something... low frequency rumbling... I turned around and looked up to see what I thought at the time was a party boat directly over me and something hit the water all around the boat!!!!
I feared I was about to get hooked by 100 weekend fisherfolk with chunks of squid on their rusty hooks! Man I swam like I had never swam before. I remembered that I could hear myself in my regulator... my voice coming through as I said 'OOOOOOOOO..... ' you know the rest.
When I got where I thought I was safe, I looked back up (around 85-90feet deep at the time) and saw that it was actually a supply boat for the rig. From underneath it had the same general shape. All that hitting the water splash was them throwing stuff overboard to feed the fish.
Man I ran out of air fast on that dive! My dive partner saw the whole thing and about got cramped up laughing at me underwater.
I was offshore on a rig once, kind of drifting back and forth under the rig, roughly in a half standing/half sitting position watching HUGE school of Angel Fish slowly move back and forth in the sunlight. Then I heard something... low frequency rumbling... I turned around and looked up to see what I thought at the time was a party boat directly over me and something hit the water all around the boat!!!!
I feared I was about to get hooked by 100 weekend fisherfolk with chunks of squid on their rusty hooks! Man I swam like I had never swam before. I remembered that I could hear myself in my regulator... my voice coming through as I said 'OOOOOOOOO..... ' you know the rest.
When I got where I thought I was safe, I looked back up (around 85-90feet deep at the time) and saw that it was actually a supply boat for the rig. From underneath it had the same general shape. All that hitting the water splash was them throwing stuff overboard to feed the fish.
Man I ran out of air fast on that dive! My dive partner saw the whole thing and about got cramped up laughing at me underwater.
Kacerdias
Member
Believe it or not, I learned a great deal about how to react in emergency situations from my social psychology class in college. (Yes, a liberal arts school. It's what you make of it that counts!) Of particular note was the work of Émile Durkheim and the concept of "anomie" in relation to crowd theory. When a cataclysmic event happens, bystanders will freeze up and gawk or wander aimlessly. Unsure of what to do, they will fall into a group paralysis. This is anomie - the state of normlessness. Since most people have never encountered such a shocking event they will be not know what the correct course of action is. Being aware of this phenomena is important since it will keep you from falling prey to it. If you are on scene -act. Saying "Someone dial 911!" will do nothing. You MUST first pull the individuals from the groupthink paralysis by singleing them out and then giving simple orders. "YOU - in the red ballcap - dial 911. YOU - blue sweater - direct traffic away. YOU - plaid flannel - help me do CPR."
I've had three occasions to put this into practice two of which were car accidents where I happened to be the first witness. The third was an encounter with a beaten and partially clothed domestic assault victim hopping the fence to my in-law's house and screaming that her abuser was coming after her. (She's doing fine now, police showed up promptly...)
In each case dividing the situation into simple orders proved enormously useful.
I've had three occasions to put this into practice two of which were car accidents where I happened to be the first witness. The third was an encounter with a beaten and partially clothed domestic assault victim hopping the fence to my in-law's house and screaming that her abuser was coming after her. (She's doing fine now, police showed up promptly...)
In each case dividing the situation into simple orders proved enormously useful.
I'm new here and want to avoid posting too much so soon, but one thing I can say with confidence is that if there's one element that used to catch me unawares almost everytime is Murphy's Law... Nothing ever went as planned, trained, or thought out, to the point of people having bets on over the next possible freak thing happening.
Franco2shoot
Member
My own experience came years ago (BK - before kids) when I heard the screen door on the back porch being popped open. While our bedroom was in the back of the house, the porch extended in that direction and the noise awoke me. I pulled the trusty 12Ga shotgun from under the bed and dropped in 2, #6shells and walked to the kitchen/laundry room. It was from this darkened position that I saw two rather beefy guys one with an 18" screwdriver and the other with a pry bar trying to wedge the door away from the frame. At that moment in time my heart seemed like it had stopped and I felt tight across my chest. I couldn't seem to talk or yell at the guys, but with the barrel leveled across the washer, the door a mere 6 feet away, I reached up and flipped the porch light on. The two maggots looked up from their work and down the bore and froze for a second, then took flight.
Now I remember that even like it was last night, and I can tell you that I was very fearful, had they popped the door and then rushed me there's no doubt I would have pulled the trigger, justifiable or not. I will bet the whole scenario played out in less than 3 minutes, from the time I left the bedroom til they split, but the adrenalin made it feel like 30 minutes had passed. While the police responded to my wife's 911 call they didn't show up for 10 minutes and the BG's were long gone. About a month later two guys (about the same description) broke into a Tavern in the neighborhood after it had closed, intent on taking the nights receipts. They shot the waitress that was cleaning up but were caught by Police before they could escape.
I believe to this day in my personal responsibility for taking care of my family. I'm prepared, but could not tell you how I would respond since it all depends on the scenario and my experience tells me no body really knows for certain.
Now jump forward to last night when my oldest (22) says, "Dad, there's some guy in a blue SRX that keep driving up and down the street stopping in front of our driveway. I think he's casing the place" We got a couple flashlights, and our point-n-shoot camera. Next time the car drove by(the 5th time) I walked quickly out into the street, popped a picture of the rear of the car and when the flash went off the car sped away and did not return. It pays to be vigilant, cuz there are dirt bags out there.
btw-we live in a fairly nice bedroom community neighborhood. Usual targets are kids cars, ie. not new but what you would see in the HS parking lot.
That's my .02 cents .
KKKKFL
Now I remember that even like it was last night, and I can tell you that I was very fearful, had they popped the door and then rushed me there's no doubt I would have pulled the trigger, justifiable or not. I will bet the whole scenario played out in less than 3 minutes, from the time I left the bedroom til they split, but the adrenalin made it feel like 30 minutes had passed. While the police responded to my wife's 911 call they didn't show up for 10 minutes and the BG's were long gone. About a month later two guys (about the same description) broke into a Tavern in the neighborhood after it had closed, intent on taking the nights receipts. They shot the waitress that was cleaning up but were caught by Police before they could escape.
I believe to this day in my personal responsibility for taking care of my family. I'm prepared, but could not tell you how I would respond since it all depends on the scenario and my experience tells me no body really knows for certain.
Now jump forward to last night when my oldest (22) says, "Dad, there's some guy in a blue SRX that keep driving up and down the street stopping in front of our driveway. I think he's casing the place" We got a couple flashlights, and our point-n-shoot camera. Next time the car drove by(the 5th time) I walked quickly out into the street, popped a picture of the rear of the car and when the flash went off the car sped away and did not return. It pays to be vigilant, cuz there are dirt bags out there.
btw-we live in a fairly nice bedroom community neighborhood. Usual targets are kids cars, ie. not new but what you would see in the HS parking lot.
That's my .02 cents .
KKKKFL
siglite
Member
The few times I've actually been in a life-or-death crisis, I've defaulted to my training. Exactly that, and nothing more. I honestly can't tell you my state of mind while any of it was happening. I can tell you I was a freakin' WRECK afterwards though. That I do remember.
mercop
Member.
The other morning I heard someone downstairs. I grabbed my cell phone, revolver and Surefire and went to investigate. Once downstairs I could make out the outline of the threat before me, it was my Mother-in-law. My bullets would be useless against her. I was able to secure a pack of cigarettes and a can of beer, I then tossed them down the cellar steps. She went for them and I slammed the door. It was a close one. Wife says we have to let her up for Christmas.
dav
Member
Thanks, mercop. I needed that!
Most responses here seem to be from those who have experienced a situation where calm action was required.
I haven't. I don't fear what many have spoken of here, as in physical threats. What I do fear is not knowing what to do.
And even in the low stress of Simunitions training it has reared its ugly head... okay, bad guys neutralized, I'm in control... NOW WHAT?
And I've never been able to really get beyond that. How do I keep two attackers under cover and go look after my family at the same time? What if I can see a gun tucked into the belt at the bad guy's back now that I've got him on the floor, yet my wife is injured in another room and neither of us can get to a phone for help?
Well, I guess that is why I am here in Strategies and Tactics, to try to learn what can be done, so I won't freeze up at that crucial instant. But as of this point in time, I am not confident I'll be pleased with how I react.
Most responses here seem to be from those who have experienced a situation where calm action was required.
I haven't. I don't fear what many have spoken of here, as in physical threats. What I do fear is not knowing what to do.
And even in the low stress of Simunitions training it has reared its ugly head... okay, bad guys neutralized, I'm in control... NOW WHAT?
And I've never been able to really get beyond that. How do I keep two attackers under cover and go look after my family at the same time? What if I can see a gun tucked into the belt at the bad guy's back now that I've got him on the floor, yet my wife is injured in another room and neither of us can get to a phone for help?
Well, I guess that is why I am here in Strategies and Tactics, to try to learn what can be done, so I won't freeze up at that crucial instant. But as of this point in time, I am not confident I'll be pleased with how I react.
Working Man
Member
I don't find "people" threats as un-nerving as other possible issues.
I have had bad person to person confrontations that went well enough (still
breathing with only a few stitches needed) that did not seem to phase me at
the time or after.
I lost control of my truck on ice once on a high but fortunately wide bridge.
Got to see the guard rails up close 4 times on each side. Had I gone over it
would have been fatal. It was the most thrilling and terrifying 8 to 10 seconds
of my life.
4 things went through my mind while this happened.
1. Don't wreak! Don't wreak! Don't wreak!
2. Control the damage! Control the damage! Control the damage!
3. If I hit, this is going to be expensive!
4. Crap! How long can I keep this up?
I actually said the above to myself while trying to regain control of my truck.
Afterwards I started laughing like a fool and still smile and giggle a little to this
day (even right now) whenever I think about it.
Another time I had a car pull in front of me from a left turning lane while I was
doing 55 mph. I actually said "oh dear" while I made my steering correction
missing him by what seemed like inches.
Funny how we react to things.
Yay.... my post time is 357
I have had bad person to person confrontations that went well enough (still
breathing with only a few stitches needed) that did not seem to phase me at
the time or after.
I lost control of my truck on ice once on a high but fortunately wide bridge.
Got to see the guard rails up close 4 times on each side. Had I gone over it
would have been fatal. It was the most thrilling and terrifying 8 to 10 seconds
of my life.
4 things went through my mind while this happened.
1. Don't wreak! Don't wreak! Don't wreak!
2. Control the damage! Control the damage! Control the damage!
3. If I hit, this is going to be expensive!
4. Crap! How long can I keep this up?
I actually said the above to myself while trying to regain control of my truck.
Afterwards I started laughing like a fool and still smile and giggle a little to this
day (even right now) whenever I think about it.
Another time I had a car pull in front of me from a left turning lane while I was
doing 55 mph. I actually said "oh dear" while I made my steering correction
missing him by what seemed like inches.
Funny how we react to things.
Yay.... my post time is 357
mercop
Member.
I have had the dumbest **** go through my head during altecation. Christmas music, thinking about why the hell the officer standing next to me was wearing corframs in the snow instead of boots. Then you think to yourself that if you have time to think about this stuff you have time to make the right choices. Something an old timer told me and I found to be true not long after, if you have to think about pulling the trigger you don't need to.
doc540
Member
"I think he is talking about something a little more complex than the typical "you'll fight like you train" type cliche'.*
The fact is that most people will not know how they will react until they stress themselves ... its a great idea to try to do that in simulation training before finding out in a real situation.
*As for the whole "you'll fight like you train" concept, there is way to interpret that phrase that might make one think that they can out-train natural human reactions to fear/startle, etc.... while you can learn to manage them and work with them more efficiently, they are still going to exist at a fundamental level. The phrase SHOULD be interpreted to inspire people to "Train like you'll fight" and work with the body's/brain's natural reactions as part of your learned/planned responses.
Again, high level reality based training can help with that as well.
-RJP"
For many years I've been I've been participating in a men's personal development program that began with an incredibly challenging three day "retreat".
During one of the course processes in the middle of the night it took the stress of a situation to reveal to me one of the most valuable insights I've yet to discover. (By the time this process started we were all very disoriented, stressed, and pretty much scared shltless.)
Unknown to our team, the process called for a surprise diversionary attack by trained, process leaders who flashed cameras in our eyes, created loud noises, and attempted to "steal" a heavy log which our six man team was strugging to carry.
As a middle man, I had my head down (blind in the black of night) and mind focused on following my leader's every move and command. When the diversion team started their ambush I reacted as if it was a genuine attack, and without a second thought, I not only disarmed the guy with the flashing camera, and before I "realized it" I had the camera lanyard around his neck and was in position to choke him from behind.
He quickly tapped me which, I guess, snapped me back to "exercise" reality, and, to tell the truth, I was pretty shaken up not just by the ambush, but by learning that I possessed the "hidden" intent to really do someone serious harm.
I've been a certified mediator and I'm a professional trainer in confict management, but I now know I carry the "flip side shadow" of reacting with force should it ever become the last and only option.
"Self awareness" is proving to be one of the most important, if not the most important qualities of self defense I know.
Hope some of this makes sense to someone besides me.
The fact is that most people will not know how they will react until they stress themselves ... its a great idea to try to do that in simulation training before finding out in a real situation.
*As for the whole "you'll fight like you train" concept, there is way to interpret that phrase that might make one think that they can out-train natural human reactions to fear/startle, etc.... while you can learn to manage them and work with them more efficiently, they are still going to exist at a fundamental level. The phrase SHOULD be interpreted to inspire people to "Train like you'll fight" and work with the body's/brain's natural reactions as part of your learned/planned responses.
Again, high level reality based training can help with that as well.
-RJP"
For many years I've been I've been participating in a men's personal development program that began with an incredibly challenging three day "retreat".
During one of the course processes in the middle of the night it took the stress of a situation to reveal to me one of the most valuable insights I've yet to discover. (By the time this process started we were all very disoriented, stressed, and pretty much scared shltless.)
Unknown to our team, the process called for a surprise diversionary attack by trained, process leaders who flashed cameras in our eyes, created loud noises, and attempted to "steal" a heavy log which our six man team was strugging to carry.
As a middle man, I had my head down (blind in the black of night) and mind focused on following my leader's every move and command. When the diversion team started their ambush I reacted as if it was a genuine attack, and without a second thought, I not only disarmed the guy with the flashing camera, and before I "realized it" I had the camera lanyard around his neck and was in position to choke him from behind.
He quickly tapped me which, I guess, snapped me back to "exercise" reality, and, to tell the truth, I was pretty shaken up not just by the ambush, but by learning that I possessed the "hidden" intent to really do someone serious harm.
I've been a certified mediator and I'm a professional trainer in confict management, but I now know I carry the "flip side shadow" of reacting with force should it ever become the last and only option.
"Self awareness" is proving to be one of the most important, if not the most important qualities of self defense I know.
Hope some of this makes sense to someone besides me.
Hey Bass Player! You the same one from RFC several years ago? Haven't seen you in a long time.
I'd like to hear a little more about that group you are involved with. Might be one I have friends in... maybe something I could get involved in? PM me
Mark
I'd like to hear a little more about that group you are involved with. Might be one I have friends in... maybe something I could get involved in? PM me
Mark
XDKingslayer
member
The whole point in training is to do it over and over and over. To where those actions become reflex. You want action instead of brain taking full control, because when your brain takes full control, your brain WILL screw you.
Granted, there isn't a single ounce of training that will replicate a gun fight. Targets don't shoot back and things like paintball and airsoft don't cut it because your brain knows you aren't going to be killed. But there are many types of training that will get close.
There are also some really good things you can do at the range too. Practicing your drawing and shooting. Practicing up close point shooting. Run around, get your heart rate up and practice shooting while your body is stressed. Practice shooting from behind cover/concealment. Do some competition pistol shooting because some of the course designers can be downright sadistic. These are key because if all you do is practice standing Weaver shooting at targets, then that's all you be proficient at. Can you shoot laying down? Can you shoot kneeling around a corner? Can you shoot doing these with a high heart rate. These are cheap and easy things to do.
Granted, there isn't a single ounce of training that will replicate a gun fight. Targets don't shoot back and things like paintball and airsoft don't cut it because your brain knows you aren't going to be killed. But there are many types of training that will get close.
There are also some really good things you can do at the range too. Practicing your drawing and shooting. Practicing up close point shooting. Run around, get your heart rate up and practice shooting while your body is stressed. Practice shooting from behind cover/concealment. Do some competition pistol shooting because some of the course designers can be downright sadistic. These are key because if all you do is practice standing Weaver shooting at targets, then that's all you be proficient at. Can you shoot laying down? Can you shoot kneeling around a corner? Can you shoot doing these with a high heart rate. These are cheap and easy things to do.
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