Can a .32 ACP CC gun have enough balls to be a respectable defense gun?

[Ledgehammer]

I hear ya - there are parts of our Beautiful city that I would prefer an AK honestly.
Yea I hear about those knife weilding gorilla men all the time in the news. What city do you live in? I'll remember to pack my tactical load out fir the trip. Haha

 

[Manco]

It was the massacre at the Berlin olympics that caused the .32 to be discarded in favor of 9mm. It was that event that led directly to the design of both the HK P7 and the Sig Sauer P6, and the adoption of the 9mm parabellum as the standard police caliber in West Germany.

I bet that much like the FBI's decision to switch calibers (initially to 10mm) following the 1986 Miami shootout rather than exploring what they and the ammunition manufacturers could accomplish with 9mm (not to mention different tactics and long arms), German authorities made at least a partly emotional decision as a result of the weight of the tragedy; this also attempted to place some of the blame on the caliber being used. Otherwise, they probably would have stuck with .32 ACP for a while longer (as would the FBI with 9mm).

The problem with saying "My 8 .32s will stop an attack" is that you are discounting the other guy isn't going to sit there and just let you empty a mag into him. If he's got a knife, he's charging and stabbing the poo out of you while youre shooting him full of icepick holes. If he's got a gun, he's shooting back. Odds are he will have something bigger than you have.

You want to trade gun fire with your .32 when you're getting shot at by a .38spl or 9mm?

To me, a .380 with quality ammo and a good sighting system is a hell of a lot better defense vs a determined and armed attacker.

Where we disagree is definitely the magnitude of difference in effectiveness between the various calibers (assuming sufficient penetration). I don't think there's that much difference.

 

[BADUNAME37]

Can a .32 ACP CC gun have enough balls to be a respectable defense gun?

I don't know as I would use a black powder pistol for defense purposes, what with all the fire, smoke, slow-loading, etc.

 

[valorius]

Where we disagree is definitely the magnitude of difference in effectiveness between the various calibers (assuming sufficient penetration). I don't think there's that much difference.

I think that you are correct, however the .32acp is an exception, because there is really a dearth of .32acp hollowpoints that get anything near sufficient penetration, and even then expansion tends to barely hit the low .40" range (with barely 8" penetration with most loads). So to get good penetration you're stuck with an icepick wound profile from a FMJ.

Conversely, in .380acp, you can get several JHP designs that will penetrate 10+" while also giving .50+" range expansion. Some give well beyond that level. In all the tests ive seen Corbon .380 DPX+P gives between .645"-70+" expansion, which is pretty amazing for a .380.

By going to .380, i also lose the rimlock issues i was having with buffalo bore hard cast 75gr flat nose rounds in my KT P32. If those rounds would have worked reliably in my P32, i'd probably still have the gun, and my LCP would still be sitting on a shelf in some gun store.

 

[Manco]

Conversely, in .380acp, you can get several JHP designs that will penetrate 10+" while also giving .50+" range expansion. Some give well beyond that level. In all the tests ive seen Corbon .380 DPX+P gives between .645"-70+" expansion, which is pretty amazing for a .380.

OK, we mainly differ in the importance we give to penetration versus expansion. From your point of view, what you say here makes perfect sense, and is valid. But from my point of view, I'd take every additional inch I could get over 10", even if I had to sacrifice expansion altogether. It just seems to me that bullets quite often penetrate less in real shootings than they do in gelatin tests.

 

[valorius]

I like to get a good compromise of both. However, if i can only have one or the other, like you, i want penetration (hence my use of Buff.Bore hard cast flat nose in my P32)

I'm definitely going to get some of the Buff.Bore hard cast flat nose for my .380 too, for trail hiking and such. I spend some time up my uncles place up the mountains, there are some critters up there that would not be impressed in the slightest with .380 JHPs.

However, here in the city, the nasties i face will be of the 2 legged variety, and - most likely- i will be faced with a frontal engagement. In such an engagement, 10% of penetration is more than enough, even against a jolly old fat guy.

If i find myself facing a situation where i have to make quartering or profile shots, i might regret my choice of DPX, but then, if i do have a frontal engagement, which i again think is the most likely scenario, i want the 100% expansion the Corbon DPX .380 has demonstrated that it's capable of in gel testing, because 10" pen. will be plenty in that scenario.

And honestly, i think the DPX's copper cutting petals will do a heck of a lot of damage in their own right.

But it's all a compromise. Like all things in life.