Can a revolver start a fire in a room that has been doused in gasoline
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ShadowsInSnow
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Yes. Once!
Officers'Wife
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Are you sure? Petroleum ethers are sold in trade as starting fluid. Ethyl ether ... Well, here is the MSDS
safety sheet for Diethyl Ether
If they were in a house with ether fumes they were risking their lives for the job.
Officers'Wife
Member
Ethers as a class are essentially dehydrated alcohols and the nomenclature reflects that. In general you have two alkyl groups interconnected with an oxygen bond. While they "tend" to be chemically stable in the presences of strong acids and alkalies most are flammable to one degree or another.
In the case of manufacture on meth if the emergency management briefings we received are to be believed the two components of interest at hand are petroleum ether and brake fluid. When the Sgt was walking through that house if the latter was volatized he would have a number of medical issues. If the former was within the LEL and HES boundaries a pistol shot wouldn't be needed. A static discharge from his shoes, an electric switch turned on or off, a metallic stone in the tread of his shoe sparking on a floor nail... It would take a brave individual.
In the case of manufacture on meth if the emergency management briefings we received are to be believed the two components of interest at hand are petroleum ether and brake fluid. When the Sgt was walking through that house if the latter was volatized he would have a number of medical issues. If the former was within the LEL and HES boundaries a pistol shot wouldn't be needed. A static discharge from his shoes, an electric switch turned on or off, a metallic stone in the tread of his shoe sparking on a floor nail... It would take a brave individual.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Simple answer...yes. It can if the air/fuel ratio is right.
In a typical internal combustion engine that runs on gasoline, the ratio is 14.5-14/7:1 air to fuel. Typical cranking pressures run to about 200 psi, and much higher if the engine is under full throttle acceleration. If a tiny spark can ignite a 14.5:1 air fuel mixture under 200+ pounds per square inch of pressure...the flash from even a .22 revolver can light it off.
Of course, in such an environment, a human being would be quickly overcome by the fumes, and his first instinct would be to get out post haste. Searching for an intruder and firing a gun would probably be at the very bottom of the list of things to do.
To give you an idea as to how explosive gasoline can be...
When I was a young lad, given to foolish acts...and living in an area where burning autumn leaves was the norm...I got bored one day, and decided to use the leaf piles to construct a mini volcano. Cautiously, I made them more and more spectacular, until I finally threw caution to the wind and decided that the last one would be a veritable Krakatoa.
Seemed like a good idea at the time.
I poured the charge in the center, and...not being a complete idiot...I poured a trail of gas to serve as a fuse.
The problem was that the fuse wasn't quite long enough, and when it hit the main charge, I was nearly knocked off my feet, and the sound and the fireball brought not only my father, but also a couple of neighbors at a dead run.
The old man was not amused.
In a typical internal combustion engine that runs on gasoline, the ratio is 14.5-14/7:1 air to fuel. Typical cranking pressures run to about 200 psi, and much higher if the engine is under full throttle acceleration. If a tiny spark can ignite a 14.5:1 air fuel mixture under 200+ pounds per square inch of pressure...the flash from even a .22 revolver can light it off.
Of course, in such an environment, a human being would be quickly overcome by the fumes, and his first instinct would be to get out post haste. Searching for an intruder and firing a gun would probably be at the very bottom of the list of things to do.
To give you an idea as to how explosive gasoline can be...
When I was a young lad, given to foolish acts...and living in an area where burning autumn leaves was the norm...I got bored one day, and decided to use the leaf piles to construct a mini volcano. Cautiously, I made them more and more spectacular, until I finally threw caution to the wind and decided that the last one would be a veritable Krakatoa.
Seemed like a good idea at the time.
I poured the charge in the center, and...not being a complete idiot...I poured a trail of gas to serve as a fuse.
The problem was that the fuse wasn't quite long enough, and when it hit the main charge, I was nearly knocked off my feet, and the sound and the fireball brought not only my father, but also a couple of neighbors at a dead run.
The old man was not amused.
BCRider
Member
Exactly. And in fact if you do the same thing with another container where the gas is right up to the brim and get down and look along the top you can see a small distance where there is no fire where the gasoline vapours are still too rich to burn. It's not until the vapours get up a little higher and mix with air coming in from the sides that the burning occurs.
We see this with candles and oil lamps as well. This transition from liquid to gas where it then burns is why the wick isn't consumed. At least not until it's too far from the supply of liquid and the top burns away.
^ Yep. That. Liquids can't burn, because of the lack of oxygen. In order to have fire, you have to have fuel, catalyst, and ignition.
Take away any or the three and combustion can't occur.
Of course, lowering the temperature below the fire point of a given fuel will have the same effect.
Water and CO2 both smother the fire by displacing oxygen (catalyst) AND by lowering the temp below the temp at which the fuel can burn.
Take away any or the three and combustion can't occur.
Of course, lowering the temperature below the fire point of a given fuel will have the same effect.
Water and CO2 both smother the fire by displacing oxygen (catalyst) AND by lowering the temp below the temp at which the fuel can burn.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Seems like about once a year you read about somebody somewhere blowing the roof off their house by setting off 19 Roach foggers!
http://www.newser.com/story/170933/nyc-woman-sets-off-bug-bombs-blows-up-building.html
Gasoline vapor would be no different once it reached the proper air/fuel ratio.
rc
http://www.newser.com/story/170933/nyc-woman-sets-off-bug-bombs-blows-up-building.html
Gasoline vapor would be no different once it reached the proper air/fuel ratio.
rc
Sheepdog1968
Member
Did a cell phone and a few others. The key they found out was a range of fuel to air that a spark would set off. This is also aligned with a chem safety class I took in college 25 or so years ago.Did the Mythbusters do a show on this?
Archie
Member
Just a detail...
Somewhat of an afterthought, but the original post posited use of a 'revolver'. I'm presuming the danger is perceived as the flash at the cylinder/barrel gap.
Most semi-automatic pistols deliver enough incandescent particles (muzzle flash) to render moot the safety difference between a revolver and a pistol.
And just for the tally book, searching for a natural gas leak with a lit Zippo lighter is also contraindicated.
Somewhat of an afterthought, but the original post posited use of a 'revolver'. I'm presuming the danger is perceived as the flash at the cylinder/barrel gap.
Most semi-automatic pistols deliver enough incandescent particles (muzzle flash) to render moot the safety difference between a revolver and a pistol.
And just for the tally book, searching for a natural gas leak with a lit Zippo lighter is also contraindicated.
I wonder if walking around in a house filled with gasoline fumes or natural gas fumes might not be dangerous even if nothing ignites. I would think breathing those fumes would not be good for the health and would render the person unconscious pretty quickly.
Of course, the movies seem to make up their own laws of physics and chemistry.
Jim
Of course, the movies seem to make up their own laws of physics and chemistry.
Jim
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
+1
I don't think a flammable air/fuel mixture would support life as we know it very long!!
Especially when running, jumping, chasing criminals with a gun, and looking photogenic all at the same time.
rc
I don't think a flammable air/fuel mixture would support life as we know it very long!!
Especially when running, jumping, chasing criminals with a gun, and looking photogenic all at the same time.
rc
Hondo 60
Member
Stoichiometry /ˌstɔɪkiˈɒmɨtri/ is a branch of chemistry that deals with the relative quantities of reactants and products in chemical reactions.
The stoichiometric ration for optimal burn is about 9-15% flammable vapor to air.
So in the correct ration, YES gasoline vapors are EXTREMELY flammable and certainly would ignite by shooting a gun.
Too rich of a mix won't light, as well as too poor of a mix.
sgt127
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We had a bunch of cooks set up shop in an old warehouse. Being smart, and knowing how dangerous ether was and how fast it would gas out in the heat of summer in Texas, they decided keeping it cool was a good idea. So, they kept a couple 5 gallon cans in a refrigerator.
Not a bad idea.
Except, one day, somebody forgot to cap one of the jugs.
About midnight, the ratio got just right and, the thermostat clicked on.
Lifted the entire roof off the warehouse, blew out every door and window and bulged the walls out.
We were really careful to try and not hit a lab when they were powdering. I never went in while they were in the process, right after though. It was pretty potent. Of course, they were still conscious. So, they were reasonably careful about venting it.
Not a bad idea.
Except, one day, somebody forgot to cap one of the jugs.
About midnight, the ratio got just right and, the thermostat clicked on.
Lifted the entire roof off the warehouse, blew out every door and window and bulged the walls out.
We were really careful to try and not hit a lab when they were powdering. I never went in while they were in the process, right after though. It was pretty potent. Of course, they were still conscious. So, they were reasonably careful about venting it.
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Officers'Wife
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BigN
Member
gunfire sparks + gas fumes = boom
doc2rn
Member
Ever seen the flame come out of a 460 Alaskan? Saw a guy set the range on fire with one. That pine tree went up like a roman candle.
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