Can a tourist shoot a gun in the USA/FL ?

[WC145]

Heck, if it's an issue, bring your Dad up here to Maine. We'll go out in my back field and shoot whatever he wants that I've got and then we'll steam up a bunch of lobsters and wash 'em down with local blueberry beer. Could be good times!

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

If you want to be unquestionably 100% within the letter of the law, and be able to prove it, have your father get a hunting permit. Pembroke Range, near you too, has a computer terminal just to allow foreigners to sign up for them. If you are going to Markham, your father can order a GA hunting license online.

Pembroke range is great for out of towners, for $20 you can use all the firearms they have in that caliber.

 

[eric.cartman]

UPDATE

Took my Father in Law to Rivier range yesterday. We shot Glock 19, XD(M) .40, and SA 1911. We both had a blast!!!

He's keeping his bin-laden target, gonna show it off in Poland, together with a ton of pictures and videos

Next is Markham Park on Wednesday at 1pm when they open... AR15, Tikka T3, Saiga 12

 

[kanook]

I don't remember which Thursday it is, but call ahead they do FA stuff. Call around to the indoor shops also. One of them rents FA If they are still open.

 

[iiibdsiil]

How would they know he's not a citizen/resident? It's S FL, there is plenty of diversity there.

Glad he enjoyed it!

 

[HKrazy]

Respectfully, your statement makes no sense at all. 18 USC 922:

(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—

IT'S ALL IN THE SAME SECTION OF THE STATUTE! So how can a felon be an "automatic prohibited person" and an alien under a nonimmigrant visa not be an "automatic prohibited person" when they are listed in the same section? How can you not hand a felon a gun, but hand a nonimmigrant alien a gun to shoot, when it is all in the same statute?

Simple, you are not selling or disposing of a gun as referred to in the statue you quote.

I said it was a point of confusion, and you just made my point. Just because someone is not eligible to buy a gun, does not mean they can't shoot one that is under control of another person.

Does that mean you can hand a felon or a fugitive a gun? No, of course not, but any foreign tourist who is here legally and is not a felon or equivalent back home or a fugitive or several other disqualifiers can hold and shoot someone else's gun.

You are confusing the ability to buy a gun with the ability to shoot one.

For example, 12 year old can't buy a gun but they can shoot one.

 

[bob.a]

About 30 years ago I went to Clarke Brothers in VA for the first time. Brought my new 380 PPK/S. I was popping away at targets, having a grand time, and this guy in a suit and a nice leather briefcase come up. He pops the case, pulls out a S&W .44 magnum, and proceeds to blast away. We get into a little conversation. He has a thick Slavic (Russian?) accent. "Nice pistol" he tells me. "I haff one like it" - he reaches into his armpit and pulls out his PPK.

Interesting part of the world.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Simple, you are not selling or disposing of a gun as referred to in the statue you quote.

I said it was a point of confusion, and you just made my point. Just because someone is not eligible to buy a gun, does not mean they can't shoot one that is under control of another person.

Does that mean you can hand a felon or a fugitive a gun? No, of course not, but any foreign tourist who is here legally and is not a felon or equivalent back home or a fugitive or several other disqualifiers can hold and shoot someone else's gun.

If you look at 18 USC 922:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

You will see that EVERY RESTRICTION that applies to:

(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;

Also applies to:

(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101 (a)(26)));

The restrictions are in sections (d) and (g). I just don't see how you can differentiate between the two groups of persons when EVERY restriction in Federal law applies to both groups.

Don't take me wrong here, I am not saying that there is a dang thing wrong with letting a foreign visitor shoot... all I am saying is that in the Federal law, EVERY restriction applies to both groups of person equally - in the Federal law there is NO difference in handing a felon a gun to shoot at a target and handing a non-immigrating alien without a hunting license a gun to shoot.

 

[HKrazy]

The restrictions are in sections (d) and (g). I just don't see how you can differentiate between the two groups of persons when EVERY restriction in Federal law applies to both groups.

Don't take me wrong here, I am not saying that there is a dang thing wrong with letting a foreign visitor shoot... all I am saying is that in the Federal law, EVERY restriction applies to both groups of person equally - in the Federal law there is NO difference in handing a felon a gun to shoot at a target and handing a non-immigrating alien without a hunting license a gun to shoot.

As several people have pointed out there are many businesses in Las Vegas and elsewhere who make a living by renting firearms, including NFA, to nonimmigrant aliens. If it were illegal, the BATF would surely stop them and/or they would not take the risk of loosing their FFL by committing an illegal act.

Edited to add:

Here is where it says its legal:

From section Y

(2) Exceptions.— Subsections (d)(5)(B), (g)(5)(B), and (s)(3)(B)(v)(II) do not apply to any alien who has been lawfully admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa, if that alien is—
(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States;

A nonimmigrant firing a gun for fun is a lawful sporting purpose is legal and requires no permit.

End of story.

 

[NavyLCDR]

A nonimmigrant firing a gun for fun is a lawful sporting purpose is legal and requires no permit.

Once again you are twisting the statute to read what you want it it read. That is NOT what the state says.

"(A) admitted to the United States for lawful hunting or sporting purposes or is in possession of a hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States; "

it doesn't say shooting for lawful hunting or sporting purposes, it says admitted to the United States for those purposes. So does this apply to aliens on student visas who were admitted to the United States for the purpose of going to school?

The only thing you have failed to do is show me, in the Federal statute, except for the (y)(2) exception which you misquote, where a felon is listed as a separate type of prohibited person, as you claim, than a non-immigrating alien.

I personally would take a foreign exchange student or tourist target shooting in a hearbeat and not think twice about it. BUT, if a Federal agent wanted to make a stink about it, I just really don't see where I would have any more defense in court than if I took a felon target shooting, based upon this Federal statute.

As several people have pointed out there are many businesses in Las Vegas and elsewhere who make a living by renting firearms, including NFA, to nonimmigrant aliens.

Let me ask another question... do these business do a background check on every person they rent to? How do they know they are not renting a firearm to a felon? I have rented guns before. Pass over the driver's license, pay the fee, take the gun.... no background check, no call to LEO, no call to NICS... what is keeping them from renting to a felon?

 

[HKrazy]

I have to respect your Navy sprit to keep fighting even in the case of certain defeat.

It is you who are misreading the statute.

While the statue says admitted for the purpose, as far as I know we don't have thought police who know what someone was thinking when they entered the country. A Japanese tourist who is coming to Las Vegas to rent a machine gun does not have to declare upon entry that that is his intent. No nonimmigrant aliens are arrested and then asked if they intended to shoot a gun or decided to once they were already here. It just does not happen. It is a non-issue to BATF.

As for the gun rental business, I do not pay their overinflated prices so I have not used them but two thoughts come to mind. First is they probably make you sign a waiver and somewhere in that waiver you declare that you are not a criminal, mentally defective etc. Second, there is no requirement to run a background check only a requirement that to the best of your knowledge a person is not a criminal, mentally defective etc.

It's the same when you do a face to face gun sale. You can take the persons word that they are not a criminal, mentally defective etc. Unless it can be proven you know otherwise, you will not get in trouble for the sale.

I have a shooting friend Tony who works at The Gun Store in Las Vegas. Many of you have seen him on TV as the gun expert on the TV show Pawn Stars. He is absolutely a stickler when it comes to obeying gun laws because they make millions every year renting guns to tourists and would not do anything with the slightest whiff of impropriety to risk loosing that gold mine.

Face the facts, it is legal.