Can BATFE enforce "State Law"?

[locnload]

As many know, Colorado's legislature passed Bloomberg financed anti-gun laws in 2013. It cost two of them to be recalled, and another resigned to save the embarasment of facing recall. We have since elected a decidedly more conservative group and nearly all the County Sheriffs are vocally against the laws, calling them, unenforceable, and generally pointless.
When the discussion came up about trying to nullify the laws regarding magazine capacity, and background checks on any and all firearms transfers, the attitude seemed to be "whats the point, no one enforces them anyway".
Will, or can, the BATFE act to enforce those laws that are State and not Federal mandates?

 

[USAF_Vet]

Where would they start? The feds generally leave the majority of the legwork to state and local cops, lacking the manpower to run any soat of major criminal investigation of that scale.

ATF can't enforce background checks at any level, it's just not their wheelhouse, that's FBI. And since federally there is no mag restrictions, they again lack jurisdiction to enforce the law. I have about as much authority to enforce Colorado state laws as the BATFE has.

 

[smalls]

"what's the point, no one enforces them anyway"

Yeah, until someone decides they want to.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Some "silly" posts have disappeared. Let's keep this discussion on topic.

Whether or not a federal LE agent has the power to effect an arrest for an apparent violation of a state law is one question raised here. I suspect that he does not, or any such power is severely circumscribed. But I haven't done, and won't be doing the research, so if anyone has some solid, documented information, that would be welcome.

However, a federal prosecutor can not prosecute a person for violation of a state law, nor will a federal court here a state crime trial.

Nonetheless, the real answer to the OP is:

"what's the point, no one enforces them anyway"

Yeah, until someone decides they want to.

State LEOs might not be pursuing violations now, but that can change in an instant and without notice. Someone new getting a job as a chief of police or a sheriff can radically change the policy of his agency. Or the threat of filing charges for a violation could be used as leverage in some situations.

...When the discussion came up about trying to nullify the laws regarding magazine capacity,...

I think the word the OP really wants is "repeal." And if the gun owners of Colorado have the political leverage to get that done, that would be the best idea.

 

[Double_J]

I have a friend who is a federal LEO. When I asked him about this he said that the only state law he could enforce would be a felony he witnessed, i.e. armed robbery, assault with deadly weapon, etc. Even then he was limited as to what he could do. The general rule was to detain until state/local officers arrive. I would be most federal officers have the same orders.

 

[BSA1]

Humm this is a tricky question.

Generally the Feds can not enforce State Laws and the State can not enforce Federal Laws but when we get to exceptions such as;

Is the BATFE agent also a sworn officer on the State level such as with the local sheriff? As a city officer I was sworn as a Sheriffs Deputy also so I could make arrests outside city limits.

What about the much used and abused Commmerce Clause?

 

[Tirod]

I would worry about the Commerce Clause when a Commerce Agent knocks on your door.

Rather than raise even more speculative fluff, the question is pretty much answered. Fed agents aren't working crimes with a view to what State laws were violated. It's not their purview. If they come up with something they roll it to the locals and move on as needed. It doesn't punch their scorecard and get them raises or promotions to focus on local laws.

This is why certain new legal views of national firearms regulations are practically doomed before the ink dried on the paper. There aren't that many agents, guys. We rarely even have the Police looking into our personal conduct at, what, even a annual incident? Traffic ticket? Most citizens don't regularly interact with law enforcement because they aren't doing things that merit attention.

When was the last time any one of us talked face to face with an ATF agent? For most, it's never happened in their life. You have to be associated with other known actors who are already under scrutiny for criminal actions. Law officers don't randomly pick people off the street to pursue correction because they needed to do something. They already have a long to-do list of known criminals and associates who already need to be found and arrested.

If you aren't engaged in activities under their scrutiny you can't be given any attention. Too many others and too little time in the day.

 

[locnload]

Good answers folks. Frank, yes, thank you, the word I was looking for was "Repeal". Brain fog, a mind is a terrible thing.
And yes I agree that few worry about a law that no one enforces, until someone does, and I never want to be the test case.
I will continue to press my representatives to push for repeal, although we still have the same Governor that signed the legislation into law, maybe we can force him into publicly stand up for it and justify it rather than hide behind his "Howdy Doody" persona like he did when challenged by nearly all the elected Sheriffs of the state.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

For the most part, no, BATFE agents cannot enforce state law.

However, this would vary state to state, as IIRC in some places state law grants police powers to federal agents either by statute or by having local law enforcement agencies also deputize federal counterparts.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

Every game warden is considered a federal officer due to the duck stamp laws. Yet game wardens do not hesitate to enforce county laws. I am pretty sure the BATF can do the same thing. The BATF may hold you until a sheriffs deputy shows up to do the paperwork but they can arrest you on local charges.

 

[TimSr]

Every game warden is considered a federal officer due to the duck stamp laws. Yet game wardens do not hesitate to enforce county laws.

Game wardens are state officers, not federal. USFWS has jurisdiction of duck stamp issues, but you do bring up an interesting point in that a state officer is supposed to be checking for federal duck stamps, when the US Justice Dept. of Justice sued the state of Arizona for attempting to enforce federal immigration law. Typically a state game warden is an authorized "agent" for the USFWS, and the state gets a certain amount of federal funds for checking and issuing citations.

 

[Johnny_B_Goode]

Game wardens are indeed considered as federal agents. Using the duck stamp law game wardens are considered as federal agents because they are so frequently called on to assist federal agents in remote areas. I can google up the answer and so can anyone who doubts me. Don't just assume you know the answer on the powers of a game warden.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Game wardens are indeed considered as federal agents. Using the duck stamp law game wardens are considered as federal agents because they are so frequently called on to assist federal agents in remote areas....

That doesn't make them federal agents. They aren't employees of the federal government. They are state employees with certain powers with regard to certain federal laws. (There are, however, special agents and wildlife inspectors who are employees of the federal U. S. Fish and Wildlife Service.)

...I can google up the answer....

Then you should and provide evidence to the rest of us to support your claim.

...and so can anyone who doubts me....

I doubt you. But it's your claim so it's your burden of proof. I don't have to do a thing.

...Don't just assume you know the answer....

You should be following your own advice.

 

[jrmiddleton425]

I don't know if BATFE is tasked with enforcing state law...but you better believe that if they catch a violation, they have the AUTHORITY to enforce it.

The Gander Mountain near me got an ear-full from BATFE several years ago, because they would let people who didn't have handgun licenses, handle a gun before putting a deposit down. The BATFE compliance inspector said if he saw it happen again, that he would take the store's FFL.

 

[TimSr]

Game wardens are indeed considered as federal agents. Using the duck stamp law game wardens are considered as federal agents because they are so frequently called on to assist federal agents in remote areas. I can google up the answer and so can anyone who doubts me. Don't just assume you know the answer on the powers of a game warden.

Then you should google up the part where your state game wardens receive a paycheck from the state, and have no authority outside the borders of their state, unlike USPWS who are paid by the federal government and have authority in all 50 states. It is very common for federal law enforcement to request assistance from local law enforcement. That does not make your county sheriff an FBI agent.

 

[Frank Ettin]

I don't know if BATFE is tasked with enforcing state law...but you better believe that if they catch a violation, they have the AUTHORITY to enforce it.

The Gander Mountain near me got an ear-full from BATFE several years ago, because they would let people who didn't have handgun licenses, handle a gun before putting a deposit down. The BATFE compliance inspector said if he saw it happen again, that he would take the store's FFL.

I think you'll find that ATF is really enforcing federal law which requires that FFLs comply with state law.

 

[.455_Hunter]

The funny thing about CO right now is the large number of FFL dealers who are actively selling "magazine repair kits" with over 16+ rd mags disassembled in a baggie. This is a BIG LOOPHOLE in the law that the anti-gunners will not be able to close given the new state legislature make-up.

I work with BATF folks on a regular basis, and this is NOT a big target on their radar screen.

 

[Speedo66]

It depends on the state itself. NY for instance grants federal officers the powers of a NY police officer.

 

[coloradokevin]

No, the BATFE is not going to be enforcing Colorado's gun laws, unless those laws also happen to cover something that is federally illegal. Honestly, in many cases the ATFE won't even go federal on cases we've brought to them unless they feel the case is "worthy". We've often gone with state charges on people for POWPO, etc.

Despite general gun forum opinions, the feds generally have more to do than just chasing locals around for chicken-poop violations of local laws. They handle federal laws, the locals/state guys handle local/state stuff.

I actually haven't heard of any LEO (Federal, State, Local) going after anyone for these silly new laws yet. Just sayin'.

 

[316SS]

One example of a Forest Service officer stripped of his power to enforce state law due to the Sheriff receiving "numerous, numerous complaints."

It makes it sound as if Forest Service LEO are routinely deputized to enforce state law. I realize this example is in California, not Colorado, but I thought it might be of some interest.

 

[TimSr]

Its more a matter of who can prosecute rather than who can enforce state and federal laws.

If you rob a liquor store, and while running away, run smack into an FBI agent, he can apprehend, and hold you until he turns you over to state or local authorites who will actually book you and file charges.

If a local police dog picks out the package the postal service left in your driveway for drugs, while answering a call, they will turn you over to the feds for prosecution.

Some crimes violate both state and federal laws, especially a lot of drug crimes. Depending on the crime they may fight over who gets to prosecute you, or if its petty, the feds tend to push it back on the state.

We've all heard about "hate crime legislation" to turn the state crime of homocide into a federal crime if the intent of the killer was based on hate. Federal hate crime laws were opposed by GW Bush because Texas uses the death penalty regularly, while there has not been a federal court ordered execution for many years.