Can Glocks Compete With The 1911?

[BigG]

This may be another garbage response, but I submit that if as much development time and money was spent on getting the Glock competitive as a Bullseye gun, it would hang in there with the Colt Browning 45 ACP.

The service pistols converted by the federal armories were to outward appearances a standard 1911A1 while inside were tricked out in the same way as a stock car compares to your family sedan. There has been no similar concerted effort to trick out a Glock, but give it 40 or so years and you might have some decent aftermarket parts possibilities. The 1911A1 has about sixty years head start on Gaston's baby.

Also, the trigger would not be a problem to a good shooter. They can work around some big difficulties. The 1911A1 trigger makes it easier to fire high scores, maybe, but a Glock trigger is by no means as bad as some people make it out to be. YMMV JMTC Etc.

 

[Master Blaster]

I have 1911's I also have a G-34 Glock most accurate competition model.

I like both. I also shoot bullseye pistol. The glock may be nearly as inherently mechanically accurate as a 1911, I know my G-34 is quite accurate, but the trigger and the design of the lockup and the fact that it can be so easily adjusted on a 1911 give the 1911 the edge over the glock when we are talking hitting the 10 ring on a bullseye target at 25 or 50 yards.

 

[Zak Smith]

I am a big practical/action shooting fan, but responses citing IPSC/USPSA matches are irrelevant to the original question,

But does anyone know, if something like a Glock G34 can be made to shoot as accurately as a tuned 1911

because even a Glock 19 is sufficient for the accuracy standards set in IPSC/USPSA matches. Thus, no differentiation can be demonstrated citing results from said matches.

-z

 

[shepsan]

This is an excellent discussion!

The diverse comments in this thread have provided me with a better understanding of the subject.

Thanks to all.

 

[Sean Smith]

Correia,

Your entire post was completely irrelevant to the question posed. Reading is fundamental.

To recap:

But does anyone know, if something like a Glock G34 can be made to shoot as accurately as a tuned 1911

But if you bolted it down into a ransom rest, would it group like a match gun?

So, if most of us think that with a little effort the glock can be made quite accurate, why does no one use them for bullseye type events?

Actually if anyone is winning bullseye events with a glock, I'd love to hear about it.

The answer to that question is NO. At least, nobody has done it yet that anybody has heard of. It may be possible in theory, but you can't shoot a theory.

Note that the question isn't, "Is the Glock a good weapon?" or, "Can the Glock compete with the 1911 in 'practical'-type shooting events?" or, "Is the Glock accurate enough for most purposes?" Nobody argued that those statements are untrue.

There is a pile of conjecture in this thread.

Is it conjecture that nobody with a Glock has been remotely competitive in NRA bullseye shooting? Or any other shooting sport predicated on sheer accuracy at 25-50 yards? The conjecture is that the Glock can hang with the 1911 in pure accuracy, when nobody has produced an example of a single Glock that can meet an accuracy target that purpose-built 1911s do with some regularity.

Okay, looking at apples to apples comparison, there are plenty people in the upper levels of USPSA who shoot Glocks (and in the same class as wide body 1911s) and win. The two most common types of guns in action pistol are 1911s and Glocks for a reason.

That's not a relevant example. We are talking about apples, and you are talking about pretzels. USPSA is irrelevant to this discussion, because it does not depend on extreme levels of mechanical accuracy to be successful, while that is a very real factor in bullseye pistol shooting. Action shooting depends on a combination of speed and adequate accuracy. The topic poster specifically refered to high-precision types of shooting, not "practical" shooting.

Any minor mechanical variations and engineering details don't mean jack squat. Just results.

Results? OK, show me a winner of a major bullseye match that used a Glock. Show me a Glock with a witnessed test target showing a 10 shot 1.5" or less group at 50 yards. That's what lots of 1911s are guaranteed to do... can anybody guarantee a Glock will do that, regardless of the modifications involved? The question was about absolute accuracy, not how good Glocks are for run-and-gun games (which nobody argued against, incidentally).

I believe high overall at the USPSA nationals was with a Glock last year.

Again, not a relevant comparison. You might as well say that a drag racer could win at the Indianapolis 500.

Overall pure mechanical bench rest accuracy will go to the 1911. Absolute best trigger pull in the world will go to the 1911.

Now that you have finally gotten around to the question posed by the topic poster, you agree with me that the Glock loses to the 1911 in this area.



Now put this into human terms in the hands of the best competitors in the world, and the Glock hangs in there just fine.

Not in matches that require maximum accuracy, it doesn't. Has anyone ever won a major bullseye match with a Glock? They've been around for, what, a couple decades?

And I'm a 1911 shooter. Glocks are just as competitive.

Not in sports that place a premimum on extreme levels of accuracy, they aren't. And that was the topic of this discussion

 

[Correia]

Sean, I'm man enough to admit when I've just taken a beat down.

That is what I get for posting at work. I read the first part of the thread, went back to work, came back and posted, totally missing the point of the thread. Back to my pretzels now. Carry on.

 

[Sean Smith]

No problem, I've missed points often enough myself.

 

[Onmilo]

Ok, I to admit that when extreme levels of accuracy are called for I shoot a Smith and Wesson Model 952 9mm.
I still like and will continue to say good things about Glocks though mainly because very few shooters will meet the accuracy standards of Bullseye Match no matter which pistol they choose.

The original post did say 'tuned' 1911, not Match Grade 1911.
The terminology was expanded and everything went from there.

 

[Master Blaster]

Last night I was contemplating this question as I cleaned my G-34 after I shot it at the range yesterday. I had a good day at the range and I was able to shoot some pretty small offhand groups with the G-34 at a 50 foot bullseye target.

So I took out my gold cup and did some dryfiring while I was aiming at a small black target on the basement wall 30 feet away. Now my gold cup has one of the best triggers I have ever felt on a 1911, and it came that way from the factory no less. So I did 25 dryfires while concentrating on the front sight.

I then did 25 dry fires with my G-34 while concentrating on the front sight.

What I discovered is that the Gold Cup I was able to keep the front sight rock solid still as I pressed the trigger and the hammer fell.

Dry firing the G-34 with its 3.5 lb trigger pull I saw the front sight move side to side, no matter how I tried to prevent that from happening, every time I pressed the trigger and the striker released. The problem with the glock trigger is not the travel, mushiness, or overtravel although those are factors that limit its accuracy. The Problem is that the striker system imparts a side to side wobble (ever so slight) caused by the mechanical action of the trigger bar releasing the striker. That caused the front sight to bobble slightly everytime no matter how hard I fought to control it.

That will keep the Glock from 1911 level bullseye accuracy in and of it self, no matter what you do to the barrel lockup (which is excellent on a glock) or the trigger pull weight.

 

[Arch]

It looks like we are all on the same page now. Ah the ambiguites of natural language.

Master Blaster,
Are you serious about this? It's not the front sight litteratly moving is it? It's feedback from the trigger pull? Am I reading this right?

Onmilo,
Yeah, that's my fault, I did say tuned, and inadvertaintly changed it to match grade.

 

[middy]

But does anyone know, if something like a Glock G34 can be made to shoot as accurately as a tuned 1911?

Maybe, but probably not.

I mean you never see the glocks in any sort of precision match, so I was wondering if it is just the long trigger that holds it back.

That, plus the fact that the trigger system isn't symmetrical, as master blaster has just noted, the lack of a barrel bushing, and a looser frame to slide fit.

My one and only centerfire handgun is a Glock, but I have no interest in bullseye pistol, it's purely a defensive weapon. For precision shooting I prefer a shoulder stock, peep sights, and at least 16" of barrel.