Can I ask a dumb question?

[Graystar]

Handy,

I can technically see how your HCI comment fits, but still... The human failing that HCI, and all those other fanatical groups, is worked up about is the idea that, for no reason whatsoever, law abiding citizens would start killing each other if given guns. That's a far cry from strictly physio-mechanical issue of the aim point shifting because of a heavy trigger pull, which is what I'm talking about. But moving on...

My 2lbs. minimum would be for a Glock. As I said, I was always thoughful when holstering. I make sure nothing ever touches the trigger but my finger. And even then, only when it's time to pull it. It is simply an extension of a rule we already live by...finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot. To me, that means fingers and everything else.

I guess our different experiences and viewpoints are just telling us different things. For example, my experience with the revolver...seeing my girlfriend instantly go from barely hitting the sheet at 7yrds to hitting bulls at 15, tell me that, in this case, it was not shooter error. It was the gun. Yes, a shooter has a responsibility to know how to shoot his gun. But the gun's design also has a responsibility to assist, not hinder, those efforts. Can someone hit bullseyes at 15 yrds with that revolver? Of course. The gun was well sighted and shot well in SA mode. But how much skill and concentration would it require in DA mode, and could that level of skill and concentration be mustered up in the few seconds she might have when an attacker is rushing her? I place a great deal of importance on hitting the target with that first shot. My experience with revolvers and DA autos tells me that a DA is detrimental to that ends. But like I said, that's just my personal experience.

As for the shift to 5 lbs...maybe, just maybe, people realized they shot more accurately with the lighter trigger?

 

[Handy]

As for the shift to 5 lbs...maybe, just maybe, people realized they shot more accurately with the lighter trigger?

They realized that along time before. It's called a 1911. It has a safety. So does the BHP.

A Sig also has a 5 lbs. trigger. It replaces the manual safety with a firmer INITIAL trigger pull.

Then there's the Glock and similar, which has neither.


Along those lines, I don't understand why you would put up with a the squishy Glock trigger when you could carry something like a Sig with the hammer cocked. Now that's a good trigger. And with a firing pin block, no less safe, from your point of view.


Your experience with the girlfriend shows that a lighter trigger IS more accurate, but not that a heavier trigger is not accurate enough for the initial defensive shot (which occur at close ranges).

Target accuracy is not needed with a defensive arm (but safety is). But with a DA/SA you have target capability once the hammer is cocked.

There is an incredible emphasis put on the target accuracy of defensive arms, starting with Cooper. With the introduction of the Glock, we've apparently decided that it is so important that even handling safety devices were discarded.

I can hit center mass at 5 yards with even a 20 lbs. trigger, and so can you.

 

[Graystar]

Handy,

You're certainly right that the Glock trigger leaves much to be desired. I put up with the trigger because I feel the Glock has the best combination of features that I feel are important. So here they are.

I have a thing against manual safeties. On one of those news shows there was a story about a jewelry store owner that was shot. He had tried to defend himself with a gun but he forgot to take the safety off. They showed the security video of him getting the drop on the bad guy...and nothing. I've heard other similar stories as well. Some might say that it was poor training, and that might be the case. But none of us know how we will act (or fail to act) is a life-threatening situation when panic might set in. With a Glock, a screw-up with a manual safety is just one less thing I don't have to worry about. And following this line of thought, I would carry any other gun ready to fire with the safety off. In this case, I feel the Glock is safer than other guns as it was meant to be carried in this fashion.

As I said before, I place great importance in striking the target on the first shot. You're right that I could probably hit center mass at 5 yards with a 20 lbs trigger. But I know that my girlfriend would not. I feel the gun should assist my effort to be accurate on the first shot. To me, this means an SA mechanism. Now, to be accurate, the Glock is a cross between SA and DA because the gun isn't fully cocked. But for my purpose it provides the same advantage as an SA mechanism. Of course, many other guns provide this same function. However, I think the Glock is technically safer simply because of its hybrid SA/DA mechanism.

The Glock is very light. A Glock 27 weighs over 7.5 oz less than a Sig P239 in .40. That's nearly half a pound. The polymer (and bigger) Sigs still weigh more than 5 oz over a Glock.

The baby Glock is easy to conceal. The three finger grip of the smallest Sig makes it one inch taller than a Glock...that one inch being in the worst spot possible, the grip. Further, by adding a +1 Pierce extension to the Glock mag, you can get 10 rounds, three fingers on the grip, the same concealability, and no increase in weight (Glock really should just include these extensions with the gun, they're so good.) It makes for an untouchable combination in concealability and capacity.

Low parts count and easy to maintain. I guess this is subjective. I find my Ruger Mark II easy to maintain too! I guess anything is easy once you know how. But I do like the simple design.

So that's why I like Glock.

 

[Intune]

For my own peace of mind ALL carry pistols go in a holster. No P32 stuffed in the front pocket, no Airweight jammed into the waistband. IF something can get to that exposed trigger SOMEDAY it will. One must be extremely cognizant of possible trigger obstructions (straps, thumb-breaks, shirttail, FINGER, etc) before holstering a firearm. Any firearm! You wanna flick on your 1911 safety and jam it in your holster, jam on. One of these days that safety isn't going to be set and that shirt is gonna pick that time to billow… Cocked & locked is, to me, one of the safest modes of carry; one just HAS to be careful. I believe trigger weight goes out the window when there is a foreign object inside a trigger guard and one applies the downward force necessary to retain a weapon in a holster. I've never measured the force used to fully seat my handgun into a Kramer horsehide IWB that uses friction to retain the weapon but I believe it is more than 10-15 lbs. I feel that I am rambling. My point is that all of them are safe (here comes the sixgun transfer bar, empty chamber screaming) when in a good holster, reasonably safe when drawn (if you have a good head on you shoulders) and remain reasonably safe when you go to holster it (if you're still using that good brain in your head.) There, done!

 

[Graystar]

I agree, Intune.