Carry handgun w/round in chamber. good or not?

[OurSafeHome.net]

No one carrying a pistol in Condition 3 has EVER had an AD.

You will know when you are ready for Condition 1 carry.

 

[mokin]

That's neat!

I'll still just keep one in the chamber though. I've usually got something--the kid, a dog leash, whatever, in the other hand.

 

[Kleanbore]

The idea that you will be so close as to "need both hands" is an objection with little merit.

Proximity is but one reason that one might need both hands.

At arm's length distances you are in need of the martial arts, not the shooting arts.

You've lost me.

Drawing your guns at a "one hand distance" borders on dangerous and foolish, for good reason. At arm's length distances your goal should be disarming, evasion and gaining enough distance to draw (and use both hands, btw).

Not sure what is meant by drawing at "one hand distance" but while in the event of a sudden attack you may not be able to shoot until the assailant is "at arm's length" you will certainly have started the draw before that. Evasion is usually a legal prerequisite if it is possible, but gaining distance may not be possible.

One cannot lawfully draw until the threat is imminent, and I'd really like to have the time to shoot before an assailant gets too close. For that reason I'll dispense with cycling the slide after drawing.

I choose to not add either the time or the risk of malfunction for chambering a round after drawing and before firing at a charging or shooting assailant.

Personally, I believe that carrying a pistol with an empty chamber for lawful purposes of civilian self defense would be extremely unwise, to say the least. I do not have fiddletown's qualifications in terms of training, but I have seen the Tueller drill demonstrated; I am very familiar with the operation of handguns; and I have close associates in the law enforcement profession who believe that carrying a pistol with an empty chamber to be very foolish indeed.

Most of the qualified instructors with whom I am familiar say the same thing.

If one chooses to try an alternative approach, such as one that evolved from military practice at a time in which it was necessary to train green troops using a hodgepodge of weapons for military purposes, he may do so at his own risk. Not for me, thanks. My purpose is civilian self defense, I know my weapon, and I will not assume the risk.

 

[mljdeckard]

Question asked and answered, with good advice, thread fading and dropping down the list......and then Evela comes back to teach us all about The Great Pumpkin. I guess it was about that time of year.

The vast majority of armed encounters occur in close-quarters. Your hands don't magically become more effective than a bullet just because the bad guy is close to you. You need to learn to fire from retention. The reason we carry handguns is because they are the best tool to end a fight quickly. This is true from 0-30 meters. In saying "At arms'-length you shouldn't draw, you should use martial arts", you are saying that in the vast majority of armed encounters, you shouldn't draw at all. You might as well not carry.

So tell us, Evela, what techniques did Pai Mei teach you that enable you to disarm an attacker and draw and fire in close-quarters?

 

[Lonestar49]

Price of 2 for 1

...

Here, take advantage of a very recent poll:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=470034&page=4

Same arguments, pro and con, favoring pro-chamber..

Enjoy,


Ls

Ps.. IF you're trained right, then you know the best safety is yourself, the 4 rules of safety, SA, and control of your trigger finger placement is the, only, deciding factor.

 

[Hawthorne2k]

Why carry one in the chamber?

Because this is what an attacker charging you from 21 feet away can feel like.

Drawing and shooting is hard enough in that time. Drawing, racking and shooting?

Forget it.

 

[Kleanbore]

RE: Post #56

That's the idea, but the shooter in the video raises his gun on command at the same time the target starts to move.

I think drawing from concealment after the target has started to rush would be more realistic.

 

[practicaltactical]

This comes up a lot. To each his own but I would NEVER carry WITHOUT a round in the chamber.

 

[Kleanbore]

In Post #35, fiddletown, whose qualifications speak for themselves, makes his case. He also refers to the importance of training.

I am looking into a local course that involves drawing from concealment (or from service gear) and shooting at multiple targets at different distances, and that covers proper presentation and rapid reloading. A friend who has taken it recommends it. The course involves firing 1,200 rounds over a two day period. Testimonials indicate improvements in both speed and in accuracy on the order of 30+ percent.

That much shooting from my polymer 9MM compact would be rough on me--I'll have to wait for my 1911 holster to arrive. Glad I chose an all steel four inch model.

The course looks worthwhile. It should certainly increase my confidence.

They do not teach using an empty chamber. Frankly, I do not know any qualified instructor who responsibly recommends it for civilian self defense.

The IDF may still do so--they started out with a number of different weapons--but according to photos I've seen, the LAPD SWAT team does not, to name one outfit as an example, and I believe that their handguns, carried cocked and locked, are secondary weapons.

An army's mission needs differ from those of a civilian, as do the rules of engagement. The differences will undoubtedly affect the risk analysis and the risk handling decisions as well as the tactics.

I'll have a better feel for the practical application after I have taken the course. I'll put something on the forum for the benefit of others.

 

[colorado_handgunner]

Thanks and Uh-oh

First off, thanks for convincing me of the safety of carrying with one in the pipe. I have been carrying an XD-SC .40 for a while now, always empty chamber. However, the opposite when carrying the LCP. I am now going one in the tube, even on the night stand here at home. The more I thought about what you all said, the more I see how it applies to HD guns as well. When it comes to assuming whether or not you will have time to rack a slide, realize that in a HD situation, there is a high probability you have been awakened from a deep sleep. In this case, fine motor skills will take a few seconds to catch up (in all likelihood). Thus the same argument applies, have it ready to go. However, my XD is now sitting in a holster on the nightstand, now that it is loaded with one in the pipe, instead of bear with an empty chamber.

Just to comment on M2's belt holster. This holster leaves the gun exposed and the trigger uncovered. The primary reason for a holster is to completely secure the firearm, with covering the trigger the primary aim (no pun intended). I know that the holster mentioned keeps the safety engaged, but safeties are mechanical devices that can fail ,as one of the previous posters indicated about his Browning earlier. A holster must keep the trigger covered, and protected from objects (or fingers) that can pull them. This is especially important if you are around children on a regular basis. Just my thoughts.

PS: Sorry if I repeated any comments made earlier, I only had a chance to read through the first two pages of posts.

 

[BushyGuy]

i used to be uncomfortable carrying my Taurus PT92C with one in the chamber locked and cocked, so i bought the Ruger SR9 with new safety trigger and keep it on safe at all times it helps give me peace of mind knowing i have double safety feature on my carry gun.

 

[orionengnr]

The idea that you will be so close as to "need both hands" is an objection with little merit. At arm's length distances you are in need of the martial arts, not the shooting arts.

Drawing your guns at a "one hand distance" borders on dangerous and foolish, for good reason. At arm's length distances your goal should be disarming, evasion and gaining enough distance to draw (and use both hands, btw). Not fiddling around (pun intended).

One of the (putting it charitably) least-enlightened posts I have ever read, here on THR or anywhere.

Obviously, you've never heard of the Tueller drill. Twenty-one feet becomes "one hand distance" in the blink of an eye. Do the math: many football players (and many young men in decent shape) can do 40 yards in 4 sec...that is 10 yards in one second, and 21 feet is 7 yards...or 7/10 of a second. Got it yet?

BTW, many of us have advanced beyond the age (or physical ability) where "martial arts" are a realistic SD option. Perhaps we should just surrender, or lie down and die.

 

[nwilliams]

Carry handgun w/round in chamber. good or not?

OK how many times a week does this question come up?

Carrying without one in the chamber ready to go is only going to end badly for you.

In a self defense shooting you have a fraction of a second to respond to the threat and with all that's going through your head in that fraction of a second do you really want a gun that's not ready to fire as soon as it's out of the holster?

I'm not even comfortable even carrying a gun that has a manual safety, it's just one more thing you could forget in a high stress situation. My carry guns are the ones that require nothing more than my finger pressing the trigger once it's drawn from the holster.

 

[wilkersk]

I've practiced the "Israeli draw" lots and lots. Looks kewl! And, on the range, I'm pretty fast with it.

That being said, if I carried a 1911, it'd be contditon 1

 

[bri]

This is similar to my experience when starting to carry. Do what's comfortable for you at the time, in the end I bet you'll find it's actually uncomfortable to carry without one in the pipe...

 

[Hokkmike]

My wife and I recently started talking about my carrying of the gun, and she stated that it is not wise to carry a gun with a round in the chamber, whether the gun has a safety or not.

Is your wife an experienced shooter? Certainly her concerns for your safety are admirable, but I am not sure - unless you have fallen in the "yes dear" compliance mode so familiar to many married men here, that she ought to hold much weight as final authority here.

That being said, I disagee with many who have stated that a pistol without one in the pipe is analgous to a "brick", etc. I don't think most people will ever use their guns at all. And those that do use thier guns will find that it is not the sub second quick draw that makes the difference, but rather the carefully delivered surprise shot from defensive cover that are most successful.

I think, that carrying with a full magazine and empty chamber is, while not optimal, much better than nothing. Having the same type of firearm you describe, no positive safety, DA trigger, I understand your (her) worrys. I need to get used to, trust, gain confidence in, and have experience with my pistol to feel "safe" while carrying with one in the chamber.

Meanwhile, do what you will......

 

[EOD Guy in VA]

Essential

 

[Deaf Smith]

Let me as you guys this:

Can you draw and chamber a round while grappling with an attacker?

Can you draw and chamber a round QUICKLY, one handed?

Can you draw and chanber a round, under stress, with total reliablity (that is you don't short stroke the action and jam the gun.)

If you can do all three of the above, sure carry your gun chamber empty!

 

[NavyLCDR]

Deaf Smith,

I would also add, can you guarantee 100% that the gun itself will not malfunction.

I would rather have a malfunction occur under controlled circumstances than have to deal with that malfunction in a fraction of a second with my life in danger.

 

[BlindJustice]

Jibbs, you stated your J-frame has no safety

FYI - the J-Frame like all other Post WWII S&W
Double Action Revolvers have a transfer bar blocking
firing pin contact with the primer of a loaded round
in case the hammer takes a blow or the gun is dropped
and lands on the hammer. That's a safety
mechanism.

Carrying with a round in the chamber - imho - should
be done with a proper holster that covers the
trigger/trigger guard.

R-

 

[Thx]

Hi all,

ArmedBear wrote above in post #12:

"If you're not confident about carrying the gun with a round in the chamber because it has no manual and/or grip safety, get rid of it and buy one with the features you want."

That makes a lot of sense to me... I'm new to shooting, so I think I've decided to make my first gun a Beretta 92FS with full decocker and manual DA safety. This level of manual safety make a round in the chamber much less risky, but seems like it would still allow a fast response.

To fire, I assume one would flip up the slide-mounted safety (perhaps done as part of the draw) and use DA for the first shot.

~Thx

 

[Frank Ettin]

...To fire, I assume one would flip up the slide-mounted safety (perhaps done as part of the draw) and use DA for the first shot....

Yes, that's how it's done, and it is done as part of the draw. But it does need to be practiced diligently, so it becomes second nature and reflexive -- smoothly and without conscious thought. Some good, professional training will help lay the proper foundation. Training shows you what and how to practice.

 

[Deanimator]

Unless you're confident of your ability to draw and chamber a round one handed while an assailant has you by one arm, and or is beating, choking, or stabbing you with his other hand, you need to carry with a round in the chamber.

If you're not, and you still don't want to carry with a round in the chamber, I recommend that you don't carry at all. You'll just be giving a violent criminal a partially loaded firearm to use on his next victim.

Carrying a handgun with an empty chamber is like a fighter pilot flying with an unpacked parachute.

 

[gbelleh]

I've been carrying concealed for over 5 years, always with a round chambered. If you have a good holster and a properly functioning gun, there's nothing to worry about.

 

[hotshotshoting]

one in the pipe at all times!


to me its like keeping gas in my fuel tank, that way if i need to use my car immediately its there and ready!

but thats just me, it all comes down to personal preference