Can I buy that gun?

[Gun_ner_Right]

Can I purchase a handgun at gun show in W. VA, from a "private seller" (no FFL background check or waiting period) same day, if I am NOT a W.VA state resident?

 

[morcey2]

Yes, you can, but you'd be committing a federal felony. Now, if you paid him for it and had it sent to an FFL in your state to finish the deal, you'd be fine but that goes against the "no background check or waiting period" part of your query.

Matt

 

[Frank Ettin]

Can I purchase a handgun at gun show in W. VA, from a "private seller" (no FFL background check or waiting period) same day, if I am NOT a W.VA state resident?

Not legally, no. The gun would need to be shipped by the seller to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer it to you in compliance will all the usual formalities (4473, etc.).

Here (yet again) is the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Here's what the statutes say:

18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;​

...

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

....

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph

(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;​

...

 

[Russ Jackson]

Slightly off topic. Can my Father give me a rifle like a Mosin Nagant if he lives in KY and I live in Ohio?

 

[Frank Ettin]

Slightly off topic. Can my Father give me a rifle like a Mosin Nagant if he lives in KY and I live in Ohio?

See my post, above. It still must be transferred through an FFL.

 

[Trent]

It's a long gun, though. Long guns don't HAVE to go through an FFL, do they? I thought only handguns HAD to go through an FFL?

 

[HankR]

Long guns also if sold across state lines.

 

[morcey2]

Long guns have to go through an FFL if the buyer and seller have different states of residence. The transfer has to be legal in both states, but the FFL can be in either state.

Handguns have to go through an FFL in the buyers state of residence.

 

[Frank Ettin]

It's a long gun, though. Long guns don't HAVE to go through an FFL, do they?...

Yes they do. If you had bothered to read my post, and the applicable law I quoted in my post, you wouldn't have had to ask that question.

...I thought only handguns HAD to go through an FFL?

I'm sorry, but that is wrong. I explained it in detail in my post. In fact the core of that post has appeared on this board perhaps a dozen times.

I'm sorry to appear brusque, but I'm frustrated and annoyed. I've provided the information, but some folks just don't seem to be paying attention.

 

[blkbrd666]

Was there an allowance for adjacent states in regard to long guns at one time?

 

[Sam1911]

Was there an allowance for adjacent states in regard to long guns at one time?

Nope. ... well, sort of. Before 1968 there were no requirements of this sort at all. GCA '68 made it illegal to sell guns across state lines without a federal firearms license.

Up until 1986 however, there was a "contiguous states" provision that said that a resident of one state could purchase long guns FROM A DEALER in contiguous states. In 1986 the contiguous states requirement was removed so a resident of one state can purchase a long gun FROM A DEALER in any other state (as long as both state's laws are followed).

 

[LemmyCaution]

Was there an allowance for adjacent states in regard to long guns at one time?

Many states had laws that allowed for this prior to 1968. The Gun Control Act made those state laws moot. Federal law supersedes these state laws, and the state laws are no longer in effect, though several still appear on the books.

 

[Gun_ner_Right]

Not legally, no. The gun would need to be shipped by the seller to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer it to you in compliance will all the usual formalities (4473, etc.).

Here (yet again) is the whole federal law story on interstate transfers of firearms (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses and the subject of dual residency):

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Here's what the statutes say:

​

Thanks for the info concerning my query re: "Can I buy that gun," it was most helpful. As a follow-up. Considering what you offered, if it's illegal for me to buy that gun, in the absence of using an FFL transfer in my home state, how are "private sellers" in W. VA (and other states for that matter) able to effectively sidestep the federal statue that prohibits it? What "loophole" exists that enables such sales without the fear of "federal" prosecution? I keep hearing private sellers advise prospective buyers: " this is a private sale, no paperwork required." What gives?

 

[Gun_ner_Right]

Thanks for the info concerning my query re: "Can I buy that gun," it was most helpful. As a follow-up. Considering what you offered, if it's illegal for me to buy that gun, in the absence of using an FFL transfer in my home state, how are "private sellers" in W. VA (and other states for that matter) able to effectively sidestep the federal statue that prohibits it? What "loophole" exists that enables such sales without the fear of "federal" prosecution? I keep hearing private sellers advise prospective buyers: " this is a private sale, no paperwork required." What gives?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...how are "private sellers" in W. VA (and other states for that matter) able to effectively sidestep the federal statue that prohibits it? What "loophole" exists that enables such sales without the fear of "federal" prosecution? I keep hearing private sellers advise prospective buyers: " this is a private sale, no paperwork required." What gives?

Ignorance, confusion, mendacity, stupidity, or some combination of the four perhaps. Obviously those that say such things haven't been caught yet. In any case, I posted cites to and quotes of federal law, if there's any question about what federal law really is.

In many cases in many State for a private sale no paperwork is required under state law. That would apply when the seller and buyer are both residents of the same State. But there appears to be considerable ignorance of the applicable federal law on interstate transfers. Indeed I've heard of state firearm regulators who weren't aware of the federal law on interstate transfers.

Of course, as you can see there were a couple of correct responses so some people do know what the law is.

Of course ignorance of the law is no excuse, and sellers and buyer who engage in such practice risk prosecution under federal law. Violation can bring up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine (with the associated lifetime loss of gun rights).

 

[Gun_ner_Right]

Thanks for the Post and your insights! Much appreciated.

 

[K0ZZZ]

One thing to remember there's a difference between ownership (what you trade $$ for) and possession.

Don't get confused, but you can legally buy the firearm there. What you can't do is possess it until it's been transferred to an FFL in your state.

That's how people can do gunbroker, etc. They pay for the item, ownership changes hands, but then possession is handled by the FFL.

 

[David G.]

What about if two people are residents of Alaska, Person A is pcs'd to Arizona, and Person B is pcs'd to Kentucky. Person A wants to sell gun to Person B, in a face to face transaction, while both are in Arizona. Legal or not? And does handgun vs long gun matter?

All these laws are confusing and should be done away with!

 

[pendennis]

What about if two people are residents of Alaska, Person A is pcs'd to Arizona, and Person B is pcs'd to Kentucky. Person A wants to sell gun to Person B, in a face to face transaction, while both are in Arizona. Legal or not? And does handgun vs long gun matter?

All these laws are confusing and should be done away with!

Illegal. No matter.

Agreed. But, that's the lay of the land.

 

[Quiet]

What about if two people are residents of Alaska, Person A is pcs'd to Arizona, and Person B is pcs'd to Kentucky. Person A wants to sell gun to Person B, in a face to face transaction, while both are in Arizona. Legal or not? And does handgun vs long gun matter?

Not legal.

Active duty military are considered residents of the state in which their permanent duty station is located in and not the state in which they are from.

So...
Person A is a resident of AZ.
Person B is a resident of KY.
If the firearm is a handgun or other firearm, then it can be transferred to Person B through a KY FFL dealer.
If the firearm is a rifle or shotgun, then it can be transferred to Person B through an AZ FFL dealer or a KY FFL dealer.

 

[David G.]

Thank you to you two.