VA Only One Handgun Every 30 Days

[giggitygiggity]

I have three questions concerning VA’s one handgun per 30-day law. Any info that you can provide is appreciated.

1. According to § 18.2-308.2:2, a handgun bought in a private sale is exempt from the 30-day period. However, if I buy a gun from a dealer (not a private sale) and then buy a gun in a private sale less than 30 days later, will it not appear to the VA State Police that I purchased two handguns within a 30 day period as a background check still needs to be conducted for both sales? If I buy a handgun from an individual (not a dealer) online and have it shipped to my local FFL for receipt and transfer, is that still considered a private sale since the seller was not a dealer?

2. What counts as a “purchase”? For instance, if I buy a handgun from a dealer and then 29 days later, I order a handgun from a dealer online to be shipped, received, and transferred at my local shop, am I in violation of the law if the second gun arrives and I wait until after the 30 day period to conduct the transfer? Basically, is a purchase considered the moment when I pay for a handgun or the moment that the background check is completed?

3. What is the state’s mechanism for enforcing this law? Is it reliant upon someone reporting what appear to be multiple handgun purchases within a 30 day period? Is it reliant upon the police reviewing background check or audits of FFLs? Has anyone been prosecuted for violation of this law?

I ask these questions because my county is dragging its feet on sending my CCW permit and a couple handguns a good prices have caught my attention, but I’ve bought a handgun within the past 30 days. Hence, I want to ensure that I 1) comply with the law and 2) don’t short change myself on an opportunities to buy these guns.

Thanks!

 

[wiscoaster]

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'm posting what might be a possible solution to work around the issues: could you do some kind of a "layaway" agreement with the seller whereby you make a deposit in exchange for holding the gun for you until enough time passes for you to complete the purchase? The purchase date is when you pay the balance, the gun is actually transferred, and you become the new owner, not the date on which you paid the deposit.

 

[sequins]

Transfer = 4473 form.

Paying for a gun is irrelevant to the transfer process that establishes ownership. You don't possess the gun until you have it transferred. WA considers me hanging you a gun at the range as lending, but if I leave your presence it would be an illegal transfer as no 4473 was filed.

That is true in Washington state law, and I suspect it may also be true in VA but you need a lawyer to fly close to the sun.

 

[wiscoaster]

...Paying for a gun is irrelevant to the transfer process that establishes ownership...

Not necessarily. FFL's won't take payment for a gun until after the 4473 is done and signed and the NICS check has come back "proceed". That makes that date on the 4473 the date of purchase. You don't actually have to transfer the gun on that day; the FFL can transfer the gun at a later date, which requires a second transferee signature on the 4473 on the date the new owner picks up the gun and takes possession. So it really is kind of tricky and seems to me (not being a lawyer) dependent on exactly the wording used in the VA law wrt the 30-day window: purchase or transfer.

 

[sequins]

Not necessarily. FFL's won't take payment for a gun until after the 4473 is done and signed and the NICS check has come back "proceed". That makes that the date of purchase. You don't actually have to transfer the gun on that day; the FFL can transfer the gun at a later date, which requires a second transferee signature on the 4473 on the date of transfer. So it really is kind of tricky and dependent on exactly the wording used in the law: purchase or transfer.

I have paid for numerous guns prior to a 4473 being filled. For example, every single online order. The majority of my online orders are from FFL dealers, who ship to my local dealer, who performs a 4473 transfer. I have already paid for a BT-99 on gunbroker thats currently in the mail and which I have not filled out any paperwork.

WA law establishes a transfer as occurring when a firearm leaves tge possession of one and enters into the possession of other. Payment isn't a factor, only physical control.

 

[wiscoaster]

I... For example, every single online order. ...

And that's why I said "not necessarily". And why the exact language used in the law is crucial to knowing how the 30-day window is defined. Purchase or transfer. If the law says "purchase" then that's the date your credit card cleared the online seller's account. If the law says "transfer" then it's the date you took physical ownership as signed and dated on the 4473. I think it's something the OP wants to know.

 

[wiscoaster]

WA law establishes a transfer as occurring when a firearm leaves tge possession of one and enters into the possession of other. Payment isn't a factor, only physical control.

That's correct, but that's not what the OP is asking.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'm posting what might be a possible solution to work around the issues: could you do some kind of a "layaway" agreement with the seller whereby you make a deposit in exchange for holding the gun for you until enough time passes for you to complete the purchase? The purchase date is when you pay the balance, the gun is actually transferred, and you become the new owner, not the date on which you paid the deposit.

You read my mind.

 

[Bazoo]

Why don't you ask your store? They probably have dealt with it before and know how to make it work legally.

 

[Styx]

I have three questions concerning VA’s one handgun per 30-day law. Any info that you can provide is appreciated.

1. According to § 18.2-308.2:2, a handgun bought in a private sale is exempt from the 30-day period. However, if I buy a gun from a dealer (not a private sale) and then buy a gun in a private sale less than 30 days later, will it not appear to the VA State Police that I purchased two handguns within a 30 day period as a background check still needs to be conducted for both sales? If I buy a handgun from an individual (not a dealer) online and have it shipped to my local FFL for receipt and transfer, is that still considered a private sale since the seller was not a dealer?

2. What counts as a “purchase”? For instance, if I buy a handgun from a dealer and then 29 days later, I order a handgun from a dealer online to be shipped, received, and transferred at my local shop, am I in violation of the law if the second gun arrives and I wait until after the 30 day period to conduct the transfer? Basically, is a purchase considered the moment when I pay for a handgun or the moment that the background check is completed?

3. What is the state’s mechanism for enforcing this law? Is it reliant upon someone reporting what appear to be multiple handgun purchases within a 30 day period? Is it reliant upon the police reviewing background check or audits of FFLs? Has anyone been prosecuted for violation of this law?

I ask these questions because my county is dragging its feet on sending my CCW permit and a couple handguns a good prices have caught my attention, but I’ve bought a handgun within the past 30 days. Hence, I want to ensure that I 1) comply with the law and 2) don’t short change myself on an opportunities to buy these guns.

Thanks!

Ask the FFL dealer that you are going to do the transfer through. In most cases when you buy multiple handguns from a dealer, they will hold onto them all until your 30 days are up. The same is usually true if you order multiples online from a private seller or FFL that is then shipped to the your FFL. My "guess" is that the exact same is true for instate private sales/tranfers if they do fall under the 30 day wait period. In any event, a simple phone call to your local FFL should quickly answer your question.

Please post and let the rest of us know what they say.

[EDIT] 18.2-308.2:2 does not say that a handgun purchased in a typical private sale is exempt from the 30 day wait period. Where did you see that at?

 

[Styx]

I don't know the answers to your questions, but I'm posting what might be a possible solution to work around the issues: could you do some kind of a "layaway" agreement with the seller whereby you make a deposit in exchange for holding the gun for you until enough time passes for you to complete the purchase? The purchase date is when you pay the balance, the gun is actually transferred, and you become the new owner, not the date on which you paid the deposit.

Unless he known the seller personally, I wouldn't suggest that. Also, the OP has suggested that the seller is selling at "priced to sell" price point. If I am the seller, Im not going to go through the hassle of doing a layway when I could sell it out right and be done with it. Most people who sell guns either need the money ASAP for bills or to fund another purchase.

 

[giggitygiggity]

[EDIT] 18.2-308.2:2 does not say that a handgun purchased in a typical private sale is exempt from the 30 day wait period. Where did you see that at?

Please see 2.i. below and/or in the following link: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-308.2:2/.

“2. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to:

a. A law-enforcement agency;

b. An agency duly authorized to perform law-enforcement duties;

c. A state or local correctional facility;

d. A private security company licensed to do business within the Commonwealth;

e. The purchase of antique firearms;

f. A person whose handgun is stolen or irretrievably lost who deems it essential that such handgun be replaced immediately. Such person may purchase another handgun, even if the person has previously purchased a handgun within a 30-day period, provided that (i) the person provides the firearms dealer with a copy of the official police report or a summary thereof, on forms provided by the Department of State Police, from the law-enforcement agency that took the report of the lost or stolen handgun; (ii) the official police report or summary thereof contains the name and address of the handgun owner, a description of the handgun, the location of the loss or theft, the date of the loss or theft, and the date the loss or theft was reported to the law-enforcement agency; and (iii) the date of the loss or theft as reflected on the official police report or summary thereof occurred within 30 days of the person's attempt to replace the handgun. The firearms dealer shall attach a copy of the official police report or summary thereof to the original copy of the Virginia firearms transaction report completed for the transaction and retain it for the period prescribed by the Department of State Police;

g. A person who trades in a handgun at the same time he makes a handgun purchase and as a part of the same transaction, provided that no more than one transaction of this nature is completed per day;

h. A person who holds a valid Virginia permit to carry a concealed handgun;

i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. For purposes of this subdivision, "private sale" means a purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics or who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics; or

j. A law-enforcement officer. For purposes of this subdivision, "law-enforcement officer" means any employee of a police department or sheriff's office that is part of or administered by the Commonwealth or any political subdivision thereof and who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the penal, traffic, or highway laws of the Commonwealth.”

 

[giggitygiggity]

Thanks for the replies. Believe it or not, my permit arrived in the mail shortly after I posted my questions so it is, fortunately, a moot point now.

 

[Styx]

Please see 2.i. below and/or in the following link: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-308.2:2/.

“2. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to:

a. A law-enforcement agency;

b. An agency duly authorized to perform law-enforcement duties;

c. A state or local correctional facility;

d. A private security company licensed to do business within the Commonwealth;

e. The purchase of antique firearms;

f. A person whose handgun is stolen or irretrievably lost who deems it essential that such handgun be replaced immediately. Such person may purchase another handgun, even if the person has previously purchased a handgun within a 30-day period, provided that (i) the person provides the firearms dealer with a copy of the official police report or a summary thereof, on forms provided by the Department of State Police, from the law-enforcement agency that took the report of the lost or stolen handgun; (ii) the official police report or summary thereof contains the name and address of the handgun owner, a description of the handgun, the location of the loss or theft, the date of the loss or theft, and the date the loss or theft was reported to the law-enforcement agency; and (iii) the date of the loss or theft as reflected on the official police report or summary thereof occurred within 30 days of the person's attempt to replace the handgun. The firearms dealer shall attach a copy of the official police report or summary thereof to the original copy of the Virginia firearms transaction report completed for the transaction and retain it for the period prescribed by the Department of State Police;

g. A person who trades in a handgun at the same time he makes a handgun purchase and as a part of the same transaction, provided that no more than one transaction of this nature is completed per day;

h. A person who holds a valid Virginia permit to carry a concealed handgun;

i. A person who purchases a handgun in a private sale. For purposes of this subdivision, "private sale" means a purchase from a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection of curios or relics or who sells all or part of such collection of curios and relics; or

j. A law-enforcement officer. For purposes of this subdivision, "law-enforcement officer" means any employee of a police department or sheriff's office that is part of or administered by the Commonwealth or any political subdivision thereof and who is responsible for the prevention and detection of crime and the enforcement of the penal, traffic, or highway laws of the Commonwealth.”

Missed that part some how. I never paid to much attention to the law because I have my carry permit. I completed one private sale/transfer through a FFL since the new law went into place, and the FFL made it a point to ask me if I purchased a firearm within the last 30 days (which I did NIB from my LGS), and they asked for my license and CCP. I will press the issue next time around.

 

[blackd24]

1. Not sure on the details for private vs dealer sale and how it would impact 30 day window.

2. You can purchase 10 handguns and have them shipped to your FFL, and then said FFL can transfer 1 every month for the next 10 months. People without CCW permits can do this for guns they really want. A purchase does not take place until $ is paid and transfer is completed. You do not own the gun (take possession) until those 2 things happen.

3. it’s enforced by the state police. Every 4473 in VA has a state police check with it, and if you try to transfer 2 handguns within a 30 day period, the FFL trying to transfer the handgun will get a call and it will be delayed.